Bush is a hero

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#170934 Oct 28, 2013
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw what the media wanted me to see. I also saw scores of those who denounced our presence and continued to support Hussein as evidenced by the fact that the invasion was not the slam dunk the previous administration was hoping for. A lot of Yay’s and a lot of Nay’s. Their country may or may not heal as a result of American intervention. Time will tell.
Continued to support Hussein?

Not even close.

If the only resistance the U.S. faced during the occupation and its aftermath was supporters of Hussein, it would have been a cake walk. Saddam and the Iraqi version of the Baathists were defeated within months of the invasion.

The Iraqi resistance was something totally different than supporters of Hussein - something more akin to what occurred in Yugoslavia after the fall of communism than defenders of Hussein's rule or legacy.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#170935 Oct 28, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe Iraq's missing WMDs are the ones we're trying to get out of Syria now. They are neighbors and really, what are friends for?
"Would you mind hanging onto these for awhile?"
Try this one on for size.
"The fact of Syrian use of chemical weapons should call the conventional wisdom about Iraq into question. The two countries were linked by their ruling Baathist parties and, as neighbors, engaged in trade, both legal and illegal, before the war. In 2006, Georges Sada, a former general of Saddam’s air force, detailed in his book,“Saddam’s Secrets,” how Saddam had secretly moved much of his WMD material to Syria before the U.S.-led invasion under the cover of providing relief to Syrian earthquake victims. Sada’s claims were detailed in Examiner in 2011. Sada’s claim was be supported by other sources as well. In 2004, a Syrian defector, Nizar Nayouf claimed that Iraqi WMDs had been hidden at three sites in Syria. Satellite reconnaissance photos from 2010 published in Israel’s Haaretz show Syrian military facilities in the same areas that Nayouf fingered. The same sites were identified in the 2004 book “End Game” by General Thomas McInerney and Paul Vallely as well as another former Iraqi general, Ali Ibrahim al-Tikriti."
I don't particularly like the source but here it is anyway.
http://www.examiner.com/article/syrian-chemic...
Whatcha think?
Wishful thinking on the part of Bush apologists is what I think.

The Bush Administration spent thousands of man hours and millions of dollars scurrying all over Iraq looking for Saddam's 'missing' WMDs. In spite of their vested interest in finding them, they (through the Iraq Survey Group and other entities) came to the conclusion that there were no missing WMDs.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#170936 Oct 28, 2013
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
<quoted text>
No doubt that the hornets nest was once again stirred up as a result of the 2003 invasion. But to my knowledge, I can’t remember a time in history when it hasn’t been. These governments have run roughshod over their people for centuries, sanctioned by larger world powers.
Plenty of blame to go around…
That's very true.

Fighting in the Middle East has been ongoing for thousands of years. Yet US administrations (for example) have been tring to broker a peace accord between the Jews and the Arabs for as long as I can remember.
All have failed, but each newly elected US President claims THEY will
be the one to bring peace to the ME.

Twofaced PLO leader Arafat was not interested, and terrorist groups like Hamas have vowed to NEVER accept a treaty with the Israelis. But I remember Bush around 2003, saying that ALL people deserve a chance to be able to live free, at least as free as we here in the US.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#170937 Oct 28, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I don't dispute the numbers, flash. War should only be a last resort.
But the US had taken extraordinary steps to keep collateral loss at a minimum. The articles cited "war-related" deaths, and the numbers included those caused by the insurgents. I believe they will account for the highest number of war-related deaths.
As to whether the Iraq war was necessary, is subjective. If Bush felt
Iraq was a threat to the US & US interests, he had the authority to go ahead. I agree with WWW, it could have been waged MUCH better, but I was among the majority that supported Bush and this war.
As the occupying power, we bear some responsibility for the fact that that the insurgencies developed and took hold.

The decisions to go in with too few troops FOR OCCUPATION DUTY AFTER THE END OF COMBAT, and the bone-headed decision to completely dismantle the existing government played into the numbers that were killed by insurgents.

Not all of that is on Bush. Some of that is on the military (mostly the Army).
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#170938 Oct 28, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Wishful thinking on the part of Bush apologists is what I think.
The Bush Administration spent thousands of man hours and millions of dollars scurrying all over Iraq looking for Saddam's 'missing' WMDs. In spite of their vested interest in finding them, they (through the Iraq Survey Group and other entities) came to the conclusion that there were no missing WMDs.
Okee-doke.

Just thought I'd toss it in the ring to be kicked around for a bit. If it's bad info, that's good to know.
But here comes the Doubting Thomas part.
What good is scurrying all over Iraq looking for them if they'd already been moved to Syria?
=
Same arm, different vein.
I recall hearing Hussein kept saying he had WMDs in good part to keep Iran and other local enemies at bay and that's was his undoing. He was flexing muscles he didn't have. Any truth to that?

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#170939 Oct 28, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>Hussein bragged about what he'd do if the US attacked (Chem-bio I think), not to mention his refusal to comply with UN Resolutions for nearly 13 years.

Since we're not privvy to WH meetings, there's no way to be sure of
what the US knew and when (other than the written reports submitted well after the event). Hussein knew the UN inspectors were coming and had several months to move things around in a sandbox the size of Texas. Also Hans Blix was a known dove and had limited interest in actually finding WMDs in Iraq.

The US probably had cursory intel regarding the oppressive regime, but not likely the depth of depravity, abuse and cold blooded murder. IIRC, some Iraqis produced cell phone videos of the abuse, beatings, etc., for reasons only a madman and his henchmen could dream up.
I remember the cat and mouse game he played. He must have thought he was impervious to U.S. threats. I ask myself why? Only one reason comes to mind, he knew someone was watching his back either directly or indirectly. If true, it had to be someone formidable, someone with the ability to confront U.S. interests and advances. That is a small list, really small.

To your point regarding Saddam's atrocities...it would do well to remember who placed Hussein's Ba'ath Party in power in 63'.

Plenty of blame to go around.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#170940 Oct 28, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I don't dispute the numbers, flash. War should only be a last resort.

But the US had taken extraordinary steps to keep collateral loss at a minimum. The articles cited "war-related" deaths, and the numbers included those caused by the insurgents. I believe they will account for the highest number of war-related deaths.

As to whether the Iraq war was necessary, is subjective. If Bush felt
Iraq was a threat to the US & US interests, he had the authority to go ahead. I agree with WWW, it could have been waged MUCH better, but I was among the majority that supported Bush and this war.
It did seem like a good idea at the time.
Goes for most if not all wars.
Hindsight

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#170941 Oct 28, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Okee-doke.
Just thought I'd toss it in the ring to be kicked around for a bit. If it's bad info, that's good to know.
But here comes the Doubting Thomas part.
What good is scurrying all over Iraq looking for them if they'd already been moved to Syria?
=
Same arm, different vein.
I recall hearing Hussein kept saying he had WMDs in good part to keep Iran and other local enemies at bay and that's was his undoing. He was flexing muscles he didn't have. Any truth to that?
The conclusions the ISG reached were based on physical inspections and interviews with anyone who had knowledge of the programs.

It would be a lot harder to fool us after that ... kinda like the difference between me telling you I have a photon torpedo launcher in my garage, and you getting to go poke around in my garage yourself.

How much Saddam's bluster was aimed at neighbors and adversaries as opposed to domestic political purposes is anyone's guess. It's as important for a despot to seem invincible to the people as it is to keep neighbors at bay.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#170942 Oct 28, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe Iraq's missing WMDs are the ones we're trying to get out of Syria now. They are neighbors and really, what are friends for?
"Would you mind hanging onto these for awhile?"

Try this one on for size.

"The fact of Syrian use of chemical weapons should call the conventional wisdom about Iraq into question. The two countries were linked by their ruling Baathist parties and, as neighbors, engaged in trade, both legal and illegal, before the war. In 2006, Georges Sada, a former general of Saddam’s air force, detailed in his book,“Saddam’s Secrets,” how Saddam had secretly moved much of his WMD material to Syria before the U.S.-led invasion under the cover of providing relief to Syrian earthquake victims. Sada’s claims were detailed in Examiner in 2011. Sada’s claim was be supported by other sources as well. In 2004, a Syrian defector, Nizar Nayouf claimed that Iraqi WMDs had been hidden at three sites in Syria. Satellite reconnaissance photos from 2010 published in Israel’s Haaretz show Syrian military facilities in the same areas that Nayouf fingered. The same sites were identified in the 2004 book “End Game” by General Thomas McInerney and Paul Vallely as well as another former Iraqi general, Ali Ibrahim al-Tikriti."

I don't particularly like the source but here it is anyway.
http://www.examiner.com/article/syrian-chemic...

Whatcha think?
Here's another story with a similar theme,(scroll about half way down)

Syria has WMD. Where did they get them?
http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2013/...

The truth is out there somewhere.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#170943 Oct 28, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Wishful thinking on the part of Bush apologists is what I think.

The Bush Administration spent thousands of man hours and millions of dollars scurrying all over Iraq looking for Saddam's 'missing' WMDs. In spite of their vested interest in finding them, they (through the Iraq Survey Group and other entities) came to the conclusion that there were no missing WMDs.
They did, they didn't, they did, they didn't...

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#170944 Oct 28, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
That's very true.
Fighting in the Middle East has been ongoing for thousands of years. Yet US administrations (for example) have been tring to broker a peace accord between the Jews and the Arabs for as long as I can remember.

All have failed, but each newly elected US President claims THEY will
be the one to bring peace to the ME.

Twofaced PLO leader Arafat was not interested, and terrorist groups like Hamas have vowed to NEVER accept a treaty with the Israelis. But I remember Bush around 2003, saying that ALL people deserve a chance to be able to live free, at least as free as we here in the US.
Credible or Crap!
--
The truth about Hussein's brutality
-by Jim Babka

"If Hussein's brutal dictatorship warranted war then we might also need to invade Zaire, Zimbabwe, Syria, Libya, China, and a host of other countries. You've probably heard this argument before. But you probably haven't heard that our own government has been complicit in much of Hussein's brutality."

Full article here, http://www.truthaboutwar.org/1brutal.shtml

"It's complicated," ...damn skippy!

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#170945 Oct 28, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Okee-doke.
Just thought I'd toss it in the ring to be kicked around for a bit. If it's bad info, that's good to know.
But here comes the Doubting Thomas part.
What good is scurrying all over Iraq looking for them if they'd already been moved to Syria?
=
Same arm, different vein.
I recall hearing Hussein kept saying he had WMDs in good part to keep Iran and other local enemies at bay and that's was his undoing. He was flexing muscles he didn't have. Any truth to that?
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/ 400/shadowstudio/shadowstudio1 108/shadowstudio110800001/1016 0687-great-success-double-hit- on-bull-s-eye.jpg

imo
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#170946 Oct 28, 2013
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's another story with a similar theme,(scroll about half way down)
Syria has WMD. Where did they get them?
http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2013/...
The truth is out there somewhere.
The trouble is sometimes the further you get away from an event, the harder it is to pinpoint the truth. Eye witnesses dry up, lines get blurry, memories fade. And the trouble with your source and mine is they're both from conservative websites. If you stumble upon a source that has no horse in the race, that's the one I'd like to look at.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#170947 Oct 28, 2013
I give up!

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#170948 Oct 28, 2013
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
<quoted text>I remember the cat and mouse game he played. He must have thought he was impervious to U.S. threats. I ask myself why? Only one reason comes to mind, he knew someone was watching his back either directly or indirectly. If true, it had to be someone formidable, someone with the ability to confront U.S. interests and advances. That is a small list, really small.
To your point regarding Saddam's atrocities...it would do well to remember who placed Hussein's Ba'ath Party in power in 63'.
Plenty of blame to go around.
While it's probably true that the U.S. supported the assumption of power by the Ba'ath Party in 1963, we were a bit player. It probably would have happened without that support. Nasser's Pan Arab movement, Syria, and domestic Iraqi politics were the determinative causes.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#170949 Oct 28, 2013
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
<quoted text>I remember the cat and mouse game he played. He must have thought he was impervious to U.S. threats. I ask myself why? Only one reason comes to mind, he knew someone was watching his back either directly or indirectly. If true, it had to be someone formidable, someone with the ability to confront U.S. interests and advances. That is a small list, really small.
To your point regarding Saddam's atrocities...it would do well to remember who placed Hussein's Ba'ath Party in power in 63'.
Plenty of blame to go around.
Iraq was bolstered by China, Russia, Chirac's France, and to some extent, Germany.

Regardless of how Hussein came to power (IMO), there comes a time when
an oppressive reign turns into human rights violations. No dictator
on earth should have the power to use and abuse, beat, rape, and murder
anyone he feels doesn't comply with his wishes, whether it's his own people or neighbors.

And I realize the US is NOT the global police force. But I believe since [we] were already in Iraq, it was our duty to stop Hussein from
continuing his rule of terror. To leave him in power would have sent the wrong message to other ruthless autocrats, and caused MANY sleepless nights, knowing that something could've been done.

Bush the elder had a chance to go after Hussein at the end of the 1st Gulf War, but the doves in Washington told GHW that his mission was complete. It was time to withdraw.

If it was my decision, I'd have sent Gen Schwarzkopf & his army to Baghdad. Considering the turn of events and horrible loss of lives during the GW Bush Iraq war, do you think that would have been a good idea back then?

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#170950 Oct 28, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>As the occupying power, we bear some responsibility for the fact that that the insurgencies developed and took hold.
The decisions to go in with too few troops FOR OCCUPATION DUTY AFTER THE END OF COMBAT, and the bone-headed decision to completely dismantle the existing government played into the numbers that were killed by insurgents.
Not all of that is on Bush. Some of that is on the military (mostly the Army).
Agree!(There's that "ripping" sound again).

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#170951 Oct 28, 2013
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
<quoted text>
Credible or Crap!
--
The truth about Hussein's brutality
-by Jim Babka
"If Hussein's brutal dictatorship warranted war then we might also need to invade Zaire, Zimbabwe, Syria, Libya, China, and a host of other countries. You've probably heard this argument before. But you probably haven't heard that our own government has been complicit in much of Hussein's brutality."
Full article here, http://www.truthaboutwar.org/1brutal.shtml
"It's complicated," ...damn skippy!
Interesting article, NF. Thanks for posting.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#170952 Oct 28, 2013
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
I give up!
HuuuH??

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#170953 Oct 28, 2013
Good Golly. Is Jr. a hero to anyone?

If so, they have low standards.

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