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“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

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#167156
Aug 23, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>It seems that the Federally funded 'Common Core' program, however, has gone to the opposite extreme.'Approving' what amounts to the diary of a pedophile, fictional or no, for reading material in an 11th grade literature class? Setting up the framework for a lit teacher to require the class to read it? Even as a life-long opponent of book-banning, I'm not okay with that. There's a line, and that book most assuredly crosses it, IMO. We might as well make the Marquis De Sade a staple of high school libraries. Perhaps we should start offering "The Anarchist's Cookbook" as a science text, as well?
I won't say you all don't have valid points here and there. At the same time I think the reactions are....reactionary;) such as describing a book one hasn't read beyond excerpts as a pedophile's diary. If the best art is that which provokes a reaction, well, there ya go.

But I get it too, you all ain't condemning the book per se, but questioning it's value on a high school reading list. I ask myself, why did the author include such scenes in what is otherwise a morality tale about self-worth and misplaced ideals? I dunno. Artists - Go figger. Maybe she knows that the prurient stuff grabs our attention (don't it tho'?), while in meantime her true theme can hopefully osmotically sink in.

In any case, at the practical level, it is one book on an entire reading list. The vast majority don't read at all. I can't see the few 17 yr old that do read being harmed by it. Really, what do we envision might happen? I don't think we want to give them credit for the maturity to place it in perspective. I think treating our teens like children is a big reason so many ARE immature. Beyond that, if a teacher chooses to include it in the syllabus, now at least they're guided thru by an educator rather than reading it "in the dark", as it were.

'Cos guess what? Sure as there's ice cream trucks in July, there's a whole host of kids of all ages who would have never heard of this book before the late brouhaha, and now they're going to be looking for it just to read the hot stuff that's got the 'rents all verklempt.

I've never felt threatened by free artistic expression, and resented adults who thought I needed "protected" from it. I feel the same for my three kids. It was our job to raise them with balance and positive self-image, and then shoo them from the nest with heartache and hope. I think a 17 yr old Lit student can handle it. There's art that I consider crap, so I ignore it,'cos Art can only be buried by indifference and neglect. Any attention - good or bad - is the very best way to ensure it's widest possible circulation. It's a conundrum, fer shur, but it seems that's one of the "blessings" of a free society.

In my most humble opinion;)

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

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#167157
Aug 23, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Which part were you touching?
LOL! I was going to use that example in the previous discussion

but didn't

Pre-Cisely because I expected Somebody would say Something like that.

Cos I would........;)

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#167158
Aug 23, 2013
 

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bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Duuuhh! Worthless troll!
Course one can't expect much else from a conspiracy theory zombie.
I fully expect you to defecate where you eat, bob. Old habits die hard.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

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#167159
Aug 23, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>I fully expect you to defecate where you eat, bob. Old habits die hard.
What you "expect" is of NO interest to me, b[u]tch!

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

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#167160
Aug 23, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Which part were you touching?
Better leave the humor to your MENTOR, crone troll. You suck at that too!

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

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#167161
Aug 23, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's school.
That's what teachers are for, to open up curious minds; encourage thinking about life and important issues.
I often think posters here simply lack education, and that's why minds are closed and everything is a knee-jerk reaction.
I wonder what the honest responses would be if posters were asked what the last three books they read were, and when they read them.
I expect some knee-jerk reactions to this post, too.
Hmm, I wonder what you are thinking might be revealed by an "honest response"......? Fifty Shades of Gray, maybe? Amuuuuzing...

But, not my cup o'meat, to borrow a phrase from the Mighty Quinn.

But I do enjoy talking about books read, and still to read. So,

Currently,

Matterhorn: A Novel of the Vietnam War by Karl Marlantes

Ms. HipG picked this up for me at a thrift. Thought I'd pretty much covered this ground, but I was wrong. Well done, well-written, by a man who earned the right, but it took 40 years to sort it out.

Previously,

Nick Of Time: A Nick McIver Time Adventure by Ted Bell

Ya got pirates, ya got Nazis, ya got sailin' ships and time travel. What more could ya want? I still enjoy reading "young adult fiction". Takes me back, and it also gives me a mental break after a novel like,

Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens

I try to fit in one Dickens a year. Possibly my next fav writer, after Twain, barely. I'd love to find a modern writer who fleshes out such a rich cast of distinct characters and personalities, and concurrent interwoven plots like was standard writing for these and a few other 19th century authors. But it is an investment in time and effort to read, thus the lighter fare after.

Before that,

The Anti-Federalist Papers by various

It amuses me to no end whenever I hear someone bemoan what the Founding Fathers "meant". Check this stuff out and be astounded what many of the most heralded 1776 "patriots" thought of the "affront to liberty" that was produced behind closed doors one hot summer in Philadelphia. The seeds of civil strife were present from the start (and still boil over with circadian regularity).

Whoops, that's four, you only wanted three. I could keep going. Fun. Love to read other's list (Bless you Hap;), but alas, it seems we might prefer discord in this venue, and will broach no interludes of civility between the assigned combatants. thx anyhoo.

But! not even one Shade Of Gray to be found.....;)

ps: I can tell you this fer shur fer shur. If we teens would have heard the ol' folks hyperventilating about a book they thought was too sexed-up for our tender ears, we'da dang well procured a copy of that dang book, or bust. Wise adults are ever clueless about how that works.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#167163
Aug 23, 2013
 
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Hmm, I wonder what you are thinking might be revealed by an "honest response"......? Fifty Shades of Gray, maybe? Amuuuuzing...
But, not my cup o'meat, to borrow a phrase from the Mighty Quinn.
But I do enjoy talking about books read, and still to read. So,
Currently,
Matterhorn: A Novel of the Vietnam War by Karl Marlantes
Ms. HipG picked this up for me at a thrift. Thought I'd pretty much covered this ground, but I was wrong. Well done, well-written, by a man who earned the right, but it took 40 years to sort it out.
Previously,
Nick Of Time: A Nick McIver Time Adventure by Ted Bell
Ya got pirates, ya got Nazis, ya got sailin' ships and time travel. What more could ya want? I still enjoy reading "young adult fiction". Takes me back, and it also gives me a mental break after a novel like,
Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens
I try to fit in one Dickens a year. Possibly my next fav writer, after Twain, barely. I'd love to find a modern writer who fleshes out such a rich cast of distinct characters and personalities, and concurrent interwoven plots like was standard writing for these and a few other 19th century authors. But it is an investment in time and effort to read, thus the lighter fare after.
Before that,
The Anti-Federalist Papers by various
It amuses me to no end whenever I hear someone bemoan what the Founding Fathers "meant". Check this stuff out and be astounded what many of the most heralded 1776 "patriots" thought of the "affront to liberty" that was produced behind closed doors one hot summer in Philadelphia. The seeds of civil strife were present from the start (and still boil over with circadian regularity).
Whoops, that's four, you only wanted three. I could keep going. Fun. Love to read other's list (Bless you Hap;), but alas, it seems we might prefer discord in this venue, and will broach no interludes of civility between the assigned combatants. thx anyhoo.
But! not even one Shade Of Gray to be found.....;)
ps: I can tell you this fer shur fer shur. If we teens would have heard the ol' folks hyperventilating about a book they thought was too sexed-up for our tender ears, we'da dang well procured a copy of that dang book, or bust. Wise adults are ever clueless about how that works.
I like your list. Our reading interests are similar in some ways, diverge in others.

But I just got home and it's late.

So I'll post my own recent reading list tomorrow.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#167164
Aug 23, 2013
 
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
What you "expect" is of NO interest to me, b[u]tch!
Too bad, bob. I'm about the only one who plays with you anymore, so I guess you're stuck with me.

:)
UidotRaceMAKEWOR LDPEACE

United States

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#167165
Aug 23, 2013
 
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Hmm, I wonder what you are thinking might be revealed by an "honest response"......? Fifty Shades of Gray, maybe? Amuuuuzing...
But, not my cup o'meat, to borrow a phrase from the Mighty Quinn.
But I do enjoy talking about books read, and still to read. So,
Currently,
Matterhorn: A Novel of the Vietnam War by Karl Marlantes
Ms. HipG picked this up for me at a thrift. Thought I'd pretty much covered this ground, but I was wrong. Well done, well-written, by a man who earned the right, but it took 40 years to sort it out.
Previously,
Nick Of Time: A Nick McIver Time Adventure by Ted Bell
Ya got pirates, ya got Nazis, ya got sailin' ships and time travel. What more could ya want? I still enjoy reading "young adult fiction". Takes me back, and it also gives me a mental break after a novel like,
Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens
I try to fit in one Dickens a year. Possibly my next fav writer, after Twain, barely. I'd love to find a modern writer who fleshes out such a rich cast of distinct characters and personalities, and concurrent interwoven plots like was standard writing for these and a few other 19th century authors. But it is an investment in time and effort to read, thus the lighter fare after.
Before that,
The Anti-Federalist Papers by various
It amuses me to no end whenever I hear someone bemoan what the Founding Fathers "meant". Check this stuff out and be astounded what many of the most heralded 1776 "patriots" thought of the "affront to liberty" that was produced behind closed doors one hot summer in Philadelphia. The seeds of civil strife were present from the start (and still boil over with circadian regularity).
Whoops, that's four, you only wanted three. I could keep going. Fun. Love to read other's list (Bless you Hap;), but alas, it seems we might prefer discord in this venue, and will broach no interludes of civility between the assigned combatants. thx anyhoo.
But! not even one Shade Of Gray to be found.....;)
ps: I can tell you this fer shur fer shur. If we teens would have heard the ol' folks hyperventilating about a book they thought was too sexed-up for our tender ears, we'da dang well procured a copy of that dang book, or bust. Wise adults are ever clueless about how that works.
Not really a Literature or non-fiction reader prefer Non-fictions Like How -to -Do books, Technology, MAth, Psuedo Sciences... boring to most of you English majors

How about short stories by Edgar allan Poe 'The Casque of Amontillado' a morbid dark drama revenge, wonder should be read by High School students?

Since: Jun 08

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#167166
Aug 23, 2013
 
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Hmm, I wonder what you are thinking might be revealed by an "honest response"......? Fifty Shades of Gray, maybe? Amuuuuzing...
But, not my cup o'meat, to borrow a phrase from the Mighty Quinn.
But I do enjoy talking about books read, and still to read. So,
Currently,
Matterhorn: A Novel of the Vietnam War by Karl Marlantes
Ms. HipG picked this up for me at a thrift. Thought I'd pretty much covered this ground, but I was wrong. Well done, well-written, by a man who earned the right, but it took 40 years to sort it out.
Previously,
Nick Of Time: A Nick McIver Time Adventure by Ted Bell
Ya got pirates, ya got Nazis, ya got sailin' ships and time travel. What more could ya want? I still enjoy reading "young adult fiction". Takes me back, and it also gives me a mental break after a novel like,
Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens
I try to fit in one Dickens a year. Possibly my next fav writer, after Twain, barely. I'd love to find a modern writer who fleshes out such a rich cast of distinct characters and personalities, and concurrent interwoven plots like was standard writing for these and a few other 19th century authors. But it is an investment in time and effort to read, thus the lighter fare after.
Before that,
The Anti-Federalist Papers by various
It amuses me to no end whenever I hear someone bemoan what the Founding Fathers "meant". Check this stuff out and be astounded what many of the most heralded 1776 "patriots" thought of the "affront to liberty" that was produced behind closed doors one hot summer in Philadelphia. The seeds of civil strife were present from the start (and still boil over with circadian regularity).
Whoops, that's four, you only wanted three. I could keep going. Fun. Love to read other's list (Bless you Hap;), but alas, it seems we might prefer discord in this venue, and will broach no interludes of civility between the assigned combatants. thx anyhoo.
But! not even one Shade Of Gray to be found.....;)
ps: I can tell you this fer shur fer shur. If we teens would have heard the ol' folks hyperventilating about a book they thought was too sexed-up for our tender ears, we'da dang well procured a copy of that dang book, or bust. Wise adults are ever clueless about how that works.
I think we said awhile back we both liked Steinbeck, I know I think "Grapes of Wrath" is one of the greatest novels ever, and I also liked "of Mice and Men." Recently though I tried to read "Tortilla Flat" and could not get very far. Maybe I'm just changing.
UidotRaceMAKEWOR LDPEACE

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#167167
Aug 23, 2013
 
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>I think we said awhile back we both liked Steinbeck, I know I think "Grapes of Wrath" is one of the greatest novels ever, and I also liked "of Mice and Men." Recently though I tried to read "Tortilla Flat" and could not get very far. Maybe I'm just changing.
Best is Dickens ' Tale of Two Cities?

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#167168
Aug 23, 2013
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder what the honest responses would be if posters were asked what the last three books they read were, and when they read them.
I expect some knee-jerk reactions to this post, too.
Let's see...I just finished Elmore Leonard's "Up in Honey's Room"
Last week, it was John Grisham's "The Litigators".

Before that, it was John Irving's "Last Night in Twisted River".

Next up - Cormack McCarthy. "No Country for Old Men".

It's summertime. Fiction rules. Come fall, however, it's going to be nothing but textbooks. I have a national certification test coming up, and will be devoting all my spare time to a TON of review.

:(

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#167169
Aug 23, 2013
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>I won't say you all don't have valid points here and there. At the same time I think the reactions are....reactionary;) such as describing a book one hasn't read beyond excerpts as a pedophile's diary. If the best art is that which provokes a reaction, well, there ya go.
But I get it too, you all ain't condemning the book per se, but questioning it's value on a high school reading list. I ask myself, why did the author include such scenes in what is otherwise a morality tale about self-worth and misplaced ideals? I dunno. Artists - Go figger. Maybe she knows that the prurient stuff grabs our attention (don't it tho'?), while in meantime her true theme can hopefully osmotically sink in.
In any case, at the practical level, it is one book on an entire reading list. The vast majority don't read at all. I can't see the few 17 yr old that do read being harmed by it. Really, what do we envision might happen? I don't think we want to give them credit for the maturity to place it in perspective. I think treating our teens like children is a big reason so many ARE immature. Beyond that, if a teacher chooses to include it in the syllabus, now at least they're guided thru by an educator rather than reading it "in the dark", as it were.
'Cos guess what? Sure as there's ice cream trucks in July, there's a whole host of kids of all ages who would have never heard of this book before the late brouhaha, and now they're going to be looking for it just to read the hot stuff that's got the 'rents all verklempt.
I've never felt threatened by free artistic expression, and resented adults who thought I needed "protected" from it. I feel the same for my three kids. It was our job to raise them with balance and positive self-image, and then shoo them from the nest with heartache and hope. I think a 17 yr old Lit student can handle it. There's art that I consider crap, so I ignore it,'cos Art can only be buried by indifference and neglect. Any attention - good or bad - is the very best way to ensure it's widest possible circulation. It's a conundrum, fer shur, but it seems that's one of the "blessings" of a free society.
In my most humble opinion;)
Two things. One, I'm glad as all get out, that my kids are grown, and their reading material does not have any further reason to cross my radar. And two, as disgusted as I was by the excerpt from "The Bluest Eye", I've read most of Toni Morrison, and find her to be a very gifted writer. I doubt very seriously, however, that I will ever read that particular novel. Just the excerpt was enough to convince me I don't want to read the rest. But I will probably still read whatever else she writes, or has written - and as you said, I have no problem with the fact that she wrote it. Just with it being a potentially required book for 11th graders. Had my kids checked it out at the library when they were in their minority, I'd have been able to discuss it with them myself, which would have been preferable, in my humble opinion, to having an open discussion about it in a lit class. Although frankly, I'm not sure why.

But....

If that excerpt had been made into a movie, there would be no question about it being appropriate for 11th graders. It would have gotten any teacher showing it in this school district, even to a senior class, fired.

Just saying.

“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

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#167170
Aug 24, 2013
 

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Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Let's see...I just finished Elmore Leonard's "Up in Honey's Room"
Last week, it was John Grisham's "The Litigators".
Before that, it was John Irving's "Last Night in Twisted River".
Next up - Cormack McCarthy. "No Country for Old Men".
It's summertime. Fiction rules. Come fall, however, it's going to be nothing but textbooks. I have a national certification test coming up, and will be devoting all my spare time to a TON of review.
:(
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>
Before that, it was John Irving's "Last Night in Twisted River".
HL loves that book.

“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

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#167171
Aug 24, 2013
 

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Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. with free porn over the internet, by age 17, most teens know about scarves and much more ..
I'm sayin
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. I'm not much of a political animal.
When I lean left, you lean right. That's it. Oh yeah.
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
My take? The vast majority of politicians are crooks. If someone realizes the position of Senator or President, well, ahhhhh, they've been bought and paid for ..
I'll call you Queen. Just leave the money on the night stand.

;-p
courteous europhobe

Bangor, ME

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#167172
Aug 24, 2013
 

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UidotRaceMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
<quoted text>Best is Dickens ' Tale of Two Cities?
How about

I'm a hypocrite
by

UidotRaceMAKEWORLDPEACE

What's up Doc?

still burning the midnight"blood"oil?

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#167173
Aug 24, 2013
 
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
HL loves that book.
Oh, so did I! It's about a guy who, at 11, kills his dad's girlfriend with a cast-iron skillet, having mistaken her for a bear in the dead of night, and his and his father's resultant 50 year flight, from the crazy sheriff she was also dating at the time of her death. Spicy stuff.

*wink*

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

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#167174
Aug 24, 2013
 

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Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Too bad, bob. I'm about the only one who plays with you anymore, so I guess you're stuck with me.:)
Wrong as usual, but no problem in any case.

You, OTOH have no choice in the matter.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

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#167175
Aug 24, 2013
 
Recently finished Russia At War by Alexander Werth, sort of the Eastern Front equivalent of Rise and Fall of the Third Reich; Afghansty (Russians in Afghanistan 79-89); and Napoleon III and His Carnival Empire by John Berman.

Now reading The Campaigns of Napoleon by David Chandler and plugging away at Iron Curtain (Crushing of Eastern Europe 45-56) by Anne Applebaum.

Not sure what's next.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

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#167176
Aug 24, 2013
 
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
Recently finished Russia At War by Alexander Werth, sort of the Eastern Front equivalent of Rise and Fall of the Third Reich; Afghansty (Russians in Afghanistan 79-89); and Napoleon III and His Carnival Empire by John Berman.
Now reading The Campaigns of Napoleon by David Chandler and plugging away at Iron Curtain (Crushing of Eastern Europe 45-56) by Anne Applebaum.
Not sure what's next.
Might I suggest:

The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy........By Douglas Adams

;o)

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