Bush is a hero

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#167066 Aug 22, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't go looking for it, found a link from a friend. It must bother you that the so called charity of Gates does have quite the agenda attached. So much so I doubt its charity.
The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison

"Pecola Breedlove, a young black girl, prays every day for beauty. Mocked by other children for the dark skin, curly hair, and brown eyes that set her apart, she yearns for normalcy, for the blond hair and blue eyes that she believes will allow her to finally fit in.Yet as her dream grows more fervent, her life slowly starts to disintegrate in the face of adversity and strife.

A powerful examination of our obsession with beauty and conformity, Toni Morrison's virtuosic first novel asks powerful questions about race, class, and gender with the subtlety and grace that have always characterized her writing."

We're talking about 11th grade - 17 years old at least. Leave it to the Puritans to completely leap over the themes of a book that's been around for 43 years and instead leer through it for cherry-picked content that gives them a stiffie, the surest barometer that they have found yet another evil they must save the world from.

Right after they finish the book, of course.

Notice also that a major reason that a book published in 1970 has just made the radar of the conservative blogorama.

Yeah, that damn bleeding heart Gates is behind it. It's his "agenda" you know. Can't have them homely black girls thinkin they pretty. Can't have them homely black girls thinkin at all.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#167067 Aug 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
And teenagers nowadays are very well versed on sex.
Reminds me of a joke:
A dad goes to his preteen son and says "Son, we need to have a talk about sex."
The kid replies, "OK dad, what do you want to know?"
I'm a pretty open minded guy, but I gotta say - that Morrison book looks extreme for 11th grade classroom work, which is not an endorsement of the by-rote denunciations of Common Core and the imaginary enemy Simon bar Soooooooooooooooros.

Now, if you want to make a political statement you can include that in your curricula to piss off the people who can't pass up an opportunity to have a hissy fit about schools. That way significant resources of your school are diverted from providing an education.

It is, however, guaranteed work for some of you lawyer types.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#167068 Aug 22, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>You approve of Catcher suggesting Chris has some issues with sex because he is appalled by Pedophilia? Hm, I think I'm appalled by that.
All of us have some issues with sex.

It's a delicate subject.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#167069 Aug 22, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Pedophilia, rape etc are not "normal" sex. I hope you know that Catcher.
I know it, and you know it, and any normal person knows it.

And that includes teenagers.

They know it too.

What are you afraid of? That they will endorse it?

Why?

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#167070 Aug 22, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>You seem to think....
Right there's where you go off-track, every time. Your ego is fed, while adding nothing to the exchange of ideas.

I've been talking the entire time, from the first post on-topic, about capitalism as an economic system. I've acknowledged the human element you bring forward, but you can't seem to return the courtesy. You seem to want to project that you either can't, or inexplicably won't, grasp the distinction, or acknowledge there even is a difference in talking about in terms of whole systems. Odd, really.....

Because I know you're an intelligent and well-read woman. Thus we can only conclude you just want to argue for it's own sake. Sorry, I already rode that ride, and paid my way off with half a house, an 85 Monte Carlo, and $410 a month.

Ni-Nite.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#167071 Aug 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
All of us have some issues with sex.
It's a delicate subject.
Thinking non-consensual sex is horrible is not having an issue with sex. And I hardly think anyone should be delicate about it.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#167072 Aug 22, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>And I think you're wrong. Capitalists often live for the idea of being able to contribute to the community, to employ people and be good to those employees. Now none of that happens without making money, but I disagree that "money" is the real goal.
I thought of something that almost everyone can relate to. You seem to think all people should be the same and not try to strive to be better. Everyone whether they are Star Trek Fans or not know about the Borg (sp?) Is that how you picture our economic system ideally being?
Do you now or have you ever worked writing press releases for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce or hoped to engage in the flackery of the likes of Fleishman-Hillard?

I mean, seriously, lisw ... what Hip posted (three things; pursuing wealth, accumulating wealth, and reinvesting wealth, in pursuit of more wealth) is what was taught to me in Business Admin 101.

That's not to say that there are not capitalists/businessmen who are exactly like the rosy little picture you paint - but what you're doing is cherry picking.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#167073 Aug 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I know it, and you know it, and any normal person knows it.
And that includes teenagers.
They know it too.
What are you afraid of? That they will endorse it?
Why?
It's already been determined that teenagers brains are not fully developed. You know that, it's a defense attorney's greatest weapon in defending a young person. It is irresponsible to bring material to the classroom that has the potential to be a source of crime. I highly doubt that anyone thinks it's okay to make kids read about say murder, sado-masochism, or ritualistic abuse either.
Parents need to be able to have a say in this too. At 18 parents have no say anymore even though this country is trying very hard to keep kids kids, with them being on their parents insurance until 26 and not being able to find jobs so living at home sometimes into their thirties.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#167074 Aug 22, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Do you now or have you ever worked writing press releases for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce or hoped to engage in the flackery of the likes of Fleishman-Hillard?
I mean, seriously, lisw ... what Hip posted (three things; pursuing wealth, accumulating wealth, and reinvesting wealth, in pursuit of more wealth) is what was taught to me in Business Admin 101.
That's not to say that there are not capitalists/businessmen who are exactly like the rosy little picture you paint - but what you're doing is cherry picking.
You think I'm cherry picking because you like Hip have such a negative picture of capitalism. I wonder why. I guess for a bright gal I'm kind of dumb according to you.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#167075 Aug 22, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison
"Pecola Breedlove, a young black girl, prays every day for beauty. Mocked by other children for the dark skin, curly hair, and brown eyes that set her apart, she yearns for normalcy, for the blond hair and blue eyes that she believes will allow her to finally fit in.Yet as her dream grows more fervent, her life slowly starts to disintegrate in the face of adversity and strife.
A powerful examination of our obsession with beauty and conformity, Toni Morrison's virtuosic first novel asks powerful questions about race, class, and gender with the subtlety and grace that have always characterized her writing."
We're talking about 11th grade - 17 years old at least. Leave it to the Puritans to completely leap over the themes of a book that's been around for 43 years and instead leer through it for cherry-picked content that gives them a stiffie, the surest barometer that they have found yet another evil they must save the world from.
Right after they finish the book, of course.
Notice also that a major reason that a book published in 1970 has just made the radar of the conservative blogorama.
Yeah, that damn bleeding heart Gates is behind it. It's his "agenda" you know. Can't have them homely black girls thinkin they pretty. Can't have them homely black girls thinkin at all.
You have a particularly nasty mind. I'm wondering if you're talking about yourself.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#167076 Aug 22, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>It's already been determined that teenagers brains are not fully developed. You know that, it's a defense attorney's greatest weapon in defending a young person. It is irresponsible to bring material to the classroom that has the potential to be a source of crime. I highly doubt that anyone thinks it's okay to make kids read about say murder, sado-masochism, or ritualistic abuse either.
Parents need to be able to have a say in this too. At 18 parents have no say anymore even though this country is trying very hard to keep kids kids, with them being on their parents insurance until 26 and not being able to find jobs so living at home sometimes into their thirties.
There was nothing in the passages I read that introduces anything with the "potential to be a source of crime" in a classroom full of 17 year olds.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#167077 Aug 22, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>There was nothing in the passages I read that introduces anything with the "potential to be a source of crime" in a classroom full of 17 year olds.
No? I didn't read it all, but I was reading the thoughts of a pedophile.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#167078 Aug 22, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>You think I'm cherry picking because you like Hip have such a negative picture of capitalism. I wonder why. I guess for a bright gal I'm kind of dumb according to you.
I guess my Business Admin professor had a negative picture of capitalism too, huh?

That probably would have shocked his former co-workers at A.G. Edwards. He retired from there at 45; teaching was a life long dream.

No, see, I don't have a negative opinion of capitalism, and I doubt that Hip does either. That's just what you say when I (or anyone else) disagrees with you about a subject related to business.

I'm realistic enough about capitalism to recognize that it is pursuing wealth, accumulating wealth, and reinvesting wealth in pursuit of more wealth, that keeps this country moving and keeps people employed. I can say that while knowing and admiring the kind of business people/capitalists you spoke of.

You've taken Hip's comments and turned them into an either or - but I don't think that was his original intent.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#167079 Aug 22, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>No? I didn't read it all, but I was reading the thoughts of a pedophile.
Yeah, I know.

That's why I think it's a questionable choice for general use in an 11th grade classroom.

That said - I don't think the idea that the book will encourage aberrant behavior holds water. 11th graders know about the behavior, and they know the behavior is wrong.

I think the book is more likely to encourage VICTIMS to come forward for help than it is to encourage illegal behavior - but that's just me.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#167080 Aug 22, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>No, see, I don't have a negative opinion of capitalism, and I doubt that Hip does either.

....I don't think that was his original intent.
Correct on both counts.

I've been around a bit, and read a bit more. I was born into a capitalist society, and I feel fine. It is what it is, and no apologies.

Apparently some aren't comfortable with what it is.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#167081 Aug 22, 2013
A) Most kids don't read.

B) Most adults don't read.

C) The surest way to get kids to read a book is for adults who didn't read the book to tell kids not to read the book.

Toni Morrison's publicist could not have done a better job promoting the book than is being done by "shocked" adults trumpeting it's vices across the land.

America is a funny place, I tell ya.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#167082 Aug 22, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, I know.
That's why I think it's a questionable choice for general use in an 11th grade classroom.
That said - I don't think the idea that the book will encourage aberrant behavior holds water. 11th graders know about the behavior, and they know the behavior is wrong.
I think the book is more likely to encourage VICTIMS to come forward for help than it is to encourage illegal behavior - but that's just me.
And there's another thing.

Cherrypicking a few quotes can't begin to be a measure to evaluate the entire book.

We need to reconsider our puritanical fears and live in the reality.

We teach the values that are important to us, to our kids. Nothing they are exposed of in school will threaten those values, if you are a responsible parent.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#167083 Aug 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
And there's another thing.
Cherrypicking a few quotes can't begin to be a measure to evaluate the entire book.
We need to reconsider our puritanical fears and live in the reality.
We teach the values that are important to us, to our kids. Nothing they are exposed of in school will threaten those values, if you are a responsible parent.
Uhhhhhh ...

I agree with you about cherry picking a few quotes.

I don't think you can sum up all questions about whether the book is appropriate for 17 year olds as 'puritanical fears', however.

I recognize it is an essential ingredient to the by-rote yelling matches, but jeez louise, can't we just talk about something once in a while?

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#167084 Aug 22, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>You just made badbob's day.
(Bush is his hero, you know)
Seems you just can't catch a break, butch. I mean you'd think the odds would favor ya sooner or later.

The thing about a board like this is that everything is on the record. All one has to do is go look it up.

For example, I'm on the record a few times saying I don't believe Bush is a hero in the true sense, as our brave men & women in the military. In fact IINM, Roberta is the only reg left who considers Bush a "hero".

I'm also on the record stating that if BushCO is guilty of any wrongdoing, they should be held accountable.

So you've shot off yer big mouth once again for what?(Some folks NEVER learn).

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#167085 Aug 22, 2013
BobinTX wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he did... about two+ years ago.
That's about right, and was the 1st time he was proven to be a liar.

It's simple really, even for a non-English troll. If yer tellin' the truth, all ya gotta do is post the title or link so anyone can go see for themselves.

If you can't (or won't) post a title or link, that makes you a blatant liar (again).

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