“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#165709 Jul 30, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>There was no attempt to bait you in my post; those are my opinions.
Are there things I think Obama (and Sharpton, and Jackson) could and should say to the black community that he's not saying?
You betcha.
That's as far as we're in agreement, however. I am damned serious when I say that if you don't understand why a half-black person identifies as black you've probably got a naive, Pollyanna-ish view of race in 21st century American society.
I am equally serious when I say there's no reasonable basis to compare or link together Sharpton and Jackson to the New Black Panthers. I think it DOES compare to linking, say, people who thought Zimmerman was innocent to the KKK.
Bait? Not even close.
My niece is half black and a lesbian. She is 29. She was raised by her white mom and my white brother. She met her father this year for the first time. Her black grandmother wanted nothing to do with her. Her white siblings, who are her half brother and sister, and her white cousins (my kids) are the kids she was raised with. Obama has a half sister who is white and that is who he was raised with. She has black half brothers and sisters that she also just recently met. They are uneducated, uncomfortable in any world but the ghetto and never finished school. I see very very few pictures of her with other black people. Her friends are multi ethnic (Asian, Mexican, white) as well as a combination of the evangelical community she was raised with and the LGBT community that she identifies with. But she sees herself and lives as white.
Sorry, Barry was raised in a white family and spent most of his life into young adulthood in that environment. He was black when he went to Africa but not full time.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#165710 Jul 30, 2013
Alright, my eyes are tired of staring at this computer screen and I have tons to do. I will have to respond to your posts later Willie.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#165711 Jul 30, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
And then you stoop to this crap.
<quoted text>
He tries to relate to them as if he came from the ghetto. That is my problem with him. He is not, was not, cannot be a kid from that life and does not need to be in order to impact them for good. He can make policies that are helpful to businesses in those communities instead of funding stupid governmental agencies. He is a great example of a black father who married a successful black woman and has been active in raising his daughters. That is powerful in and of itself. He went through a time of partying and drugs but left it behind to be a responsible adult. He finished school and his education has gotten him quite far in life. He is proof that a black man from a single mom can get to the top.
Political differences aside, he has much to say to the black community and to all communities without trying to be the cool hipster. He could be the element for real change back to strong black families and cleaning up the violence that is destroying people's lives.
I think in reality he sees himself as an outsider in the black community and pays them just enough lip service to gain their votes and to be the one who controls the bees that buzz and swarm to his defense.
I still don't see how your speculation about the degree of sincerity of Obama's claim on blackness differs a bit from liberal speculation about black conservatives.

Now, Obama is a politician. He's done some things (even if they don't go as far as your exaggerated '[trying to act as if] he came from the ghetto) that strike me as no more or no less sincere than, oh, a silver-spoon mouthed Yale educated Kennebunkport cowboy going back to the ranch to clear brush.

Now, you or I or any given American may relate more to one contrived attempt to be 'common' than the other - but we as Americans should really learn to get over being shocked or disgusted when a politician acts like a politician even if we do not belong to the constituency being appealed to.
Roberta G

United States

#165712 Jul 30, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
Willie, I am not positive where you are going with this but I know what bugs me. It is a universal problem. Very few people have the time or take the time to dig deeper into the news of the day or the history of the past. We are guilty of arguing from soundbites and surface articles. America and the world have gotten lazy when it comes to taking in information and being able to absorb it for nuances. We no longer ask ourselves "what did this author leave out and why" or "What is the purpose of this story coming out now". It is a dying art and even when more of us did it, it was not common. Group think and group speak have become the norm. All the news talking heads regurgitate each other's talking points. You hear the same catch words and phrases from the President, his advisers, and the talking heads on a daily basis. Turn to Fox news and conservative radio and you get the same thing from the Right. The polarization of today seems to mean that we must be in lockstep either on the Left or the Right. No room for individual variations or fine tuning of beliefs. So, in taking a guess at your script remark, this is the stab I have made. I hope I have not slashed too blindly.
Well said, Perrier.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#165713 Jul 30, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>So, he "needs to know the ghetto" to be properly black?
Interesting...
All of what you say may be true to some extent or another - but I don't think that precludes Obama identifying as black for legitimate reasons (not just political expediency). I say that based on what I know of the experiences of mixed race people (my age and the age of my children).
I don't see how the "logic" you're using here is all that different from the logic used by liberals to characterize black conservatives as Uncle Toms.
So funny. When you put what I said in quotes and added "to be properly black" I got an instant flash of Chris Matthews and Piers Morgan. There is nothing about anything I said that implied "properly black". What does "properly black" even mean?
I did not say Obama would not identify as black. What I did say is he lived and grew up in a world of privilege that was pretty white and would have identified as more white than black. Growing up in Hawaii was not racially oppressive in the late 70s and 80's. It wasn't like that in California either. His identity with inner city blacks is not through personal experience.
I didn't lump Sharpton or Jackson into the New Black Panthers in the way you suggested. All I said was that each has its claws in the black community and all are media whores.

Even I identified with Trayvon's parents and my 17 year old, rap lovin', pant sagging, tattoo sporting, white boy son with Trayvon. You don't have to be black to put yourself in their terrible position or realize that boys out with friends can make very stupid mistakes. They are dumb as a box of rocks with boat loads of testosterone and teenage angst. They, given the right circumstances, are volatile and very unpredictable.

What I am saying, and continue to believe, is that Obama really doesn't give a rat's hairy behind about how his policies affect average Americans from any walk of life, not the ghetto and not the suburbs. He has never been Joe Average American. Oh, he cares about a story that pops up here and there but beyond that it doesn't make its way into his daily concerns. The only thing he cares about is the policies and agendas that come out of university campuses from people who only know an insulated life.



“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#165714 Jul 30, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text> Well said, Perrier.
:] tnx Bert.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#165715 Jul 30, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
So funny. When you put what I said in quotes and added "to be properly black" I got an instant flash of Chris Matthews and Piers Morgan. There is nothing about anything I said that implied "properly black". What does "properly black" even mean?
I did not say Obama would not identify as black. What I did say is he lived and grew up in a world of privilege that was pretty white and would have identified as more white than black. Growing up in Hawaii was not racially oppressive in the late 70s and 80's. It wasn't like that in California either. His identity with inner city blacks is not through personal experience.
Oh, I freely admit the term 'properly black' is mine, and not one you've used. The thing is - you're the one who is insistent that Obama, for want of a better way of putting it, isn't as black as he claims to be.

You may want to slice and dice that a different way, but that's what I hear you saying.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#165716 Jul 30, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, I freely admit the term 'properly black' is mine, and not one you've used. The thing is - you're the one who is insistent that Obama, for want of a better way of putting it, isn't as black as he claims to be.
You may want to slice and dice that a different way, but that's what I hear you saying.
Your ears are connected to your world view and lack of respect for Conservatives.
I will leave it at that. You are wrong but you've posted it. Folks can read all I wrote and figure it on their own.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

#165717 Jul 30, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ears are connected to your world view and lack of respect for Conservatives.
I will leave it at that. You are wrong but you've posted it. Folks can read all I wrote and figure it on their own.
Indeed. I thank you for sharing a story from your family as well. My wife before she gave her life to Christ lived the alt. lifestyle as well. Her father was in the picture but didn't honor anyone and she became quite angry for years at men.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

#165718 Jul 30, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>So, he "needs to know the ghetto" to be properly black?
Interesting...
All of what you say may be true to some extent or another - but I don't think that precludes Obama identifying as black for legitimate reasons (not just political expediency). I say that based on what I know of the experiences of mixed race people (my age and the age of my children).
I don't see how the "logic" you're using here is all that different from the logic used by liberals to characterize black conservatives as Uncle Toms.
I don't think that's what she is saying. She is being honest that Obama has far more in common with the top percent of this nation than most that are black do. Imo Obama is a very angry man. I think that's one reason he and his wife jet around and basically have a I don't care attitude while so many are in such pain here.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#165719 Jul 30, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ears are connected to your world view and lack of respect for Conservatives.
I will leave it at that. You are wrong but you've posted it. Folks can read all I wrote and figure it on their own.
My 'lack of respect for conservatives'?

Oh, brother.

This is me hearing what you have to say, and disagreeing with you.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165720 Jul 30, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ears are connected to your world view and lack of respect for Conservatives.
I will leave it at that. You are wrong but you've posted it. Folks can read all I wrote and figure it on their own.
LOL! Most conservative died long time ago , most are war mongering NeoCons as you in good company with these Fascist slimes.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165721 Jul 30, 2013
Are we talking about warring Conservatives know?

WHAHAHHAHHAHAA

i expect negative Icons! WBHAHAHAHA
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165722 Jul 30, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>My 'lack of respect for conservatives'?
Oh, brother.
This is me hearing what you have to say, and disagreeing with you.
My department, like you pushing me to post! Mucho gracias! BWHAHHAHAAHA
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165723 Jul 30, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. I thank you for sharing a story from your family as well. My wife before she gave her life to Christ lived the alt. lifestyle as well. Her father was in the picture but didn't honor anyone and she became quite angry for years at men.
Did you know Xtain Fundies/Evangelical are bad apples! FYI not religious! BHWHAHHAHAAA
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165724 Jul 30, 2013
Former U.N weapons inspector Scott Ritter, Boston, 2001, about planned US war on Iraq
The First Casualty. editorial
"
The national security of the United States of America has been hijacked by a handful of neoconservatives who are using their position of authority to pursue their own ideologically driven political ambitions, and the day we go to war for that reason is the day that we have failed collectively as a nation.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165725 Jul 30, 2013
Conservatives Without Conscience
by John Dean
Penguin Books, 2006, pxiv
'
Authoritarianism is not well understood and seldom discussed in the context of American government and politics, yet it now constitutes the prevailing thinking and behavior among conservatives.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165726 Jul 30, 2013
Conservatives Without Conscience
by John Dean

Empirical studies reveal that authoritarians are frequently enemies of freedom, antidemocratic, anti-equality, highly prejudiced, mean-spirited, power hungry, Machiavellian, and amoral. They are also often conservatives without conscience
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165727 Jul 30, 2013
political scientists Charles W. Dunn and J. David Woodard reported in their study 'The Conservative Tradition in America'

Conservatives Without Conscience
by John Dean
'
Authoritarian conservatism begins with basic conservative beliefs - order, distrust of change, belief in traditional values - and branches in the direction of favoring state power to protect these beliefs.
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#165728 Jul 30, 2013
Jimmy Carter


(Christian ...)Fundamentalist movements are led by authoritarian males who consider themselves to be superior to others and, within religious groups, have an overwhelming commitment to subjugate women and to dominate their fellow believers.

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