Bush is a hero
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#163787 Jun 26, 2013
That's to stay "married"
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#163788 Jun 26, 2013
HipGnozizzzzz wrote:
<quoted text>All of a sudden? There were progressive groups being scrutinized along with conservative, and it's been a part of the story from the git. I mentioned it myself, more than once, and received the requisite "in the tank" dismissal.
What we have here is known as "selective hearing".
Not so......according to David Camp anyway.

He claims the following:

1) The "scrutinized progressive" applications were not required to be sent to a special IRS unit for additional review. but tea party and conservative applications were subjected to extra scrutiny by 12 different working groups within the IRS. Tea Party groups were also marked for extra scrutiny in the same document.

2) It was noted that while progressive groups were also featured on an IRS’ BOLO list alongside tea party groups, it pointed out that only tea party groups had their donors threatened, had confidential information leaked, were sent "inappropriate and intrusive" questions, and had their applications delayed for more than two years, according to currently available evidence.

3) It was also noted that ONLY tea party groups were mentioned as having been targeted in a Treasury Inspector General’s report on the IRS scandal.

4) It should also be noted that Ways and Means Democrats did not call any progressive victims of IRS targeting at the committee’s hearing on IRS victims.

"I do want to note that the minority was given the opportunity to call a witness, but did not present a witness that had been affected by taxpayer activity — by IRS activity." Camp said at the June 4 Ways and Means hearing, in response to Democratic Rep. Ron Kind’s complaint that no progressive victims were present at the hearing. Camp later said at the hearing that he welcomed potential progressive victims to come forward, but that no progressive groups had done so.
I wonder why no progressive victims came forward.
Hmm.

Let me know if that's a only a check or if it's a checkmate.

HipGnozizzzzz

Altona, IL

#163789 Jun 26, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Not so......according to David Camp anyway.
He claims the following:
1) The "scrutinized progressive" applications were not required to be sent to a special IRS unit for additional review. but tea party and conservative applications were subjected to extra scrutiny by 12 different working groups within the IRS. Tea Party groups were also marked for extra scrutiny in the same document.
2) It was noted that while progressive groups were also featured on an IRS’ BOLO list alongside tea party groups, it pointed out that only tea party groups had their donors threatened, had confidential information leaked, were sent "inappropriate and intrusive" questions, and had their applications delayed for more than two years, according to currently available evidence.
3) It was also noted that ONLY tea party groups were mentioned as having been targeted in a Treasury Inspector General’s report on the IRS scandal.
4) It should also be noted that Ways and Means Democrats did not call any progressive victims of IRS targeting at the committee’s hearing on IRS victims.
"I do want to note that the minority was given the opportunity to call a witness, but did not present a witness that had been affected by taxpayer activity — by IRS activity." Camp said at the June 4 Ways and Means hearing, in response to Democratic Rep. Ron Kind’s complaint that no progressive victims were present at the hearing. Camp later said at the hearing that he welcomed potential progressive victims to come forward, but that no progressive groups had done so.
I wonder why no progressive victims came forward.
Hmm.
Let me know if that's a only a check or if it's a checkmate.
Of course you see that as more evidence of....well, we're not really sure now - WH scandal doesn't quite fit the bill anymore - which is why the air has gone out of this balloon as far as the general public is concerned. For me, I dunno, I guess I'd say, apparently progressive applicants don't choose to flip out the victim card with such aplomb as teabaggers. >shrug<

As in your post, I still just see a bunch of partisan claims and gratuitous speculation, with a jaundiced eye toward mid-term elections. How do we cut to the heart of the "discrimination"? Here we go. Simple question: How many "conservative social welfare" applications were denied? Not a bunch of victimhood whining about paperwork and bureaucracy - how many were denied? That number will quantify this thing quite nicely.

No WH connection.
No apps denied.

Mate.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#163790 Jun 26, 2013
HipGnozizzzzz wrote:
<quoted text>...How do we cut to the heart of the "discrimination"? Here we go. Simple question: How many "conservative social welfare" applications were denied? Not a bunch of victimhood whining about paperwork and bureaucracy - how many were denied? That number will quantify this thing quite nicely.
No WH connection.
No apps denied.
Mate.
Hiya Hip G,
Only one group was denied. It was a group that helped Democrat women get elected which clearly violated 501(c)(4) restrictions. 501(c)(4) are social welfare groups that are not to be primarily involved in partisan politics.
"Emerge America and its initial state programs were granted 501(c)(4) status by the IRS several years ago. Later, when a new state program applied for the same status, it was denied because Emerge works only with women who are in the Democratic Party, so the IRS determined this did not meet the definition of “social welfare” for the common good. We believed this denial triggered a review of the Emerge programs that had already been granted c4 status, and consequently those statuses were revoked."

The IG report mentions that conservative groups faced substantial delays. Here is an ugly fact to consider while sifting through all the information regarding the extremely long delays for Conservative c4 applicants:(the NTEU is the IRS employees union)
"The NTEU, through its political action committee, raised $613,633 in the 2010 cycle, giving 98% of its contributions to anti-Tea Party Democrats. In 2012 the figure was $729,708, with 94% going to anti-Tea Party candidates. One NTEU candidate after another, as discussed last week in this space, campaigned vigorously against the Tea Party."

The timeline of the IRS meetings with Obama and resultant policy changes is rather interesting to peruse.
http://spectator.org/archives/2013/05/20/obam...

There is so much going on in the news these days it is almost impossible to keep up!

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#163791 Jun 26, 2013
And further, HippyG,

Now, the IRS's union is going to receive a $70,000,000
bonus for ___? What for? For collecting taxes? Sure, that's what that bonus is for.

"The NTEU is the 150,000 member union that represents IRS employees along with 30 other separate government agencies. Kelley herself is a 14-year IRS veteran agent. The union’s PAC endorsed President Obama in both 2008 and 2012, and gave hundreds of thousands of dollars in the 2010 and 2012 election cycles to anti-Tea Party candidates.
Putting IRS employees in the position of actively financing anti-Tea Party candidates themselves, while in their official positions in the IRS blocking, auditing, or intimidating Tea Party and conservative groups around the country."

This thing stinks to high heaven. To deny a group their requested status meant giving answers as to the reasons for the denial. Far easier to keep them waiting by pushing them from division to division rather than giving those excuses.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#163792 Jun 26, 2013
HipGnozizzzzz wrote:
<quoted text>Of course you see that as more evidence of....well, we're not really sure now - WH scandal doesn't quite fit the bill anymore - which is why the air has gone out of this balloon as far as the general public is concerned. For me, I dunno, I guess I'd say, apparently progressive applicants don't choose to flip out the victim card with such aplomb as teabaggers. >shrug<
As in your post, I still just see a bunch of partisan claims and gratuitous speculation, with a jaundiced eye toward mid-term elections. How do we cut to the heart of the "discrimination"? Here we go. Simple question: How many "conservative social welfare" applications were denied? Not a bunch of victimhood whining about paperwork and bureaucracy - how many were denied? That number will quantify this thing quite nicely.
No WH connection.

No apps denied.
Mate.
Total BS pal. But then this is so obvious I know its the best you can hope to come up with.Partisans targeted their political adversaries and got caught. End of story.
HipGnozizzzzz

Altona, IL

#163793 Jun 26, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
Hiya Hip G,
Only one group was denied. It was a group that helped Democrat women get elected which clearly violated 501(c)(4) restrictions. 501(c)(4) are social welfare groups that are not to be primarily involved in partisan politics.
"Emerge America and its initial state programs were granted 501(c)(4) status by the IRS several years ago. Later, when a new state program applied for the same status, it was denied because Emerge works only with women who are in the Democratic Party, so the IRS determined this did not meet the definition of “social welfare” for the common good. We believed this denial triggered a review of the Emerge programs that had already been granted c4 status, and consequently those statuses were revoked."
The IG report mentions that conservative groups faced substantial delays. Here is an ugly fact to consider while sifting through all the information regarding the extremely long delays for Conservative c4 applicants:(the NTEU is the IRS employees union)
"The NTEU, through its political action committee, raised $613,633 in the 2010 cycle, giving 98% of its contributions to anti-Tea Party Democrats. In 2012 the figure was $729,708, with 94% going to anti-Tea Party candidates. One NTEU candidate after another, as discussed last week in this space, campaigned vigorously against the Tea Party."
The timeline of the IRS meetings with Obama and resultant policy changes is rather interesting to peruse.
http://spectator.org/archives/2013/05/20/obam...
There is so much going on in the news these days it is almost impossible to keep up!
Roger that. In context, I thought it clear I was talking about the fact that no conservative apps were denied, since they were the alleged "victims", but it never hurts to be scrupulously accurate with the known facts. Leave the self-serving vagary and speculation to the wolf-spotter dweebs, right? Thx.

Gooda "see" ya, MaryCO of the High Country Far!

“Unemployed Bush 5.3 obama 8.7”

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#163794 Jun 26, 2013
miner49er wrote:
Bobin, please show a little respect for your fellow beings...
Isn't that what my question was trying to determine?
miner49er wrote:
"Did your parent have any children that lived? "
Really funny grade school humor, you conservatives are so respectful of others
Yes we are, when it's deserved.

I didn't think you could answer the question... you brain-deads can't process any meaningful responses.

http://www.spirithalloween.com/product/zombie...

“Unemployed Bush 5.3 obama 8.7”

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#163795 Jun 26, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
You libs keep reading what you want it to say, not what was written.
The original msg CLEARLY admitted some non-conservative groups were scrutinized. But at the time, the IG could NOT determine exactly what the criteria of that scrutiny entailed and why.
IINM the investigation continues, so ya might wanna save yer rooster strut for a future party.
I love when the government investigates the government... and expects us to believe that it's a legitimate investigation. I'm guessing that's why we just get investigation after investigation, stalls and delays, but we never get answers.

Where was obama on the night of 9/11/12?

Did obama authorize troops to be sent to Benghazi? If not, why not? If he did, who countermanded the pResident's order?

Why were we able to get up drones over Benghazi to send live TV back to the State Department and the White House, but couldn't manage any air support?

What did Hillary do on the night of 9/11/12 while her people were being killed and her Consulate was being destroyed?

Why has nobody been fired for the huge display of incompetence that got our Ambassador and three other Americans killed?

I know you were discussing the IRS, but these questions have been unanswered a whole lot longer, although we're running multiple government investigations. They're worthless.

“Unemployed Bush 5.3 obama 8.7”

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#163796 Jun 26, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Ha-ha! We had a lawyer friend that used to laugh and say "cha-ching" about divorces. The more they argued the more he made. I personally see no problem with gay marriage and we might see more effort to stay among gay couples.
I wonder if there will be a mass exodus of gay couples from states that don't recognize same sex marriage to the states that do.

I agree with the ruling, I understand the ruling, but it sure seems screwed up that some same sex couples get to be recognized by the feds, but others won't. The sad thing, Texas will probably be one of the last holdouts to recognize same sex marriage... and that won't be doing what's right for all our citizens.
miner49er

Princeton, WV

#163797 Jun 26, 2013
"Did obama authorize troops to be sent to Benghazi?"

Don't be foolish, that would be an act of war, bad idea.

"couldn't manage any air support?"

Great idea, air strikes on a residential neighborhood without any type of Forward Air Control or targeting... another bad idea.

And you would have Obama commence ground and air assaults on a country in the middle of a civil war, all without Congressional approval.

Have you ever even read that Constitution thingy?

"Why has nobody been fired for the huge display of incompetence that got our Ambassador and three other Americans killed?"

You think someone should be fired? Why didn't you complain about the 13 attacks on real American Embassies under George W. Bush?

"13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News"

"Not only have numerous sources previously debunked the Benghazi information being peddled by the Republicans and Fox News (for example, contrary to what the Republicans are saying, yes, reinforcements did in fact arrive before the attack on the CIA compound), but none of these people raised a single word of protest when, for example, American embassies in Yemen and Pakistan were attacked numerous times. Why didn't the Bush administration do something to secure the compounds after the first attacks? Why didn't he provide additional security?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/13-be...

Obama and Syria? Don't you mean Bush and Syria?

"September 12, 2006. Damascus, Syria. Four armed gunmen shouting "Allahu akbar" storm the U.S. Embassy using grenades, automatic weapons, a car bomb and a truck bomb. Four people are killed, 13 are wounded."

You folks are more of those well-informed Fox viewers...
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#163798 Jun 26, 2013
miner49er wrote:
"Did obama authorize troops to be sent to Benghazi?"
Don't be foolish, that would be an act of war, bad idea.
"couldn't manage any air support?"
Great idea, air strikes on a residential neighborhood without any type of Forward Air Control or targeting... another bad idea.
And you would have Obama commence ground and air assaults on a country in the middle of a civil war, all without Congressional approval.
Have you ever even read that Constitution thingy?
"Why has nobody been fired for the huge display of incompetence that got our Ambassador and three other Americans killed?"
You think someone should be fired? Why didn't you complain about the 13 attacks on real American Embassies under George W. Bush?
"13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News"
"Not only have numerous sources previously debunked the Benghazi information being peddled by the Republicans and Fox News (for example, contrary to what the Republicans are saying, yes, reinforcements did in fact arrive before the attack on the CIA compound), but none of these people raised a single word of protest when, for example, American embassies in Yemen and Pakistan were attacked numerous times. Why didn't the Bush administration do something to secure the compounds after the first attacks? Why didn't he provide additional security?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/13-be...
Obama and Syria? Don't you mean Bush and Syria?
"September 12, 2006. Damascus, Syria. Four armed gunmen shouting "Allahu akbar" storm the U.S. Embassy using grenades, automatic weapons, a car bomb and a truck bomb. Four people are killed, 13 are wounded."
You folks are more of those well-informed Fox viewers...
You just exposed yourself. Libya is not in the midst of a civil war, that's Syria buddy. You have no clue what you're talking about. Another waste of everyone's time.
The rest is just you spewing junk you read in the rags. Man it is going to get easy reading here since I know whose posts to skip.

“Unemployed Bush 5.3 obama 8.7”

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#163799 Jun 26, 2013
miner49er wrote:
Obama and Syria? Don't you mean Bush and Syria?

You folks are more of those well-informed Fox viewers...
At least I know Benghazi is in Libya, not Syria.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#163800 Jun 26, 2013
HipGnozizzzzz wrote:
<quoted text>Of course you see that as more evidence of....well, we're not really sure now - WH scandal doesn't quite fit the bill anymore - which is why the air has gone out of this balloon as far as the general public is concerned. For me, I dunno, I guess I'd say, apparently progressive applicants don't choose to flip out the victim card with such aplomb as teabaggers. >shrug<
As in your post, I still just see a bunch of partisan claims and gratuitous speculation, with a jaundiced eye toward mid-term elections. How do we cut to the heart of the "discrimination"? Here we go. Simple question: How many "conservative social welfare" applications were denied? Not a bunch of victimhood whining about paperwork and bureaucracy - how many were denied? That number will quantify this thing quite nicely.
No WH connection.
No apps denied.
Mate.
Garbage. All of it.
You're back to your pork barrel posting.
===

I'm going to plagiarize from Freebird. I hope he doesn't mind but his response to you was simple and and so perfect, it deserves a 2nd showing.

Freebird USA wrote:
"Partisans targeted their political adversaries and got caught.
End of story."

“Unemployed Bush 5.3 obama 8.7”

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#163801 Jun 26, 2013
miner49er wrote:
"Did obama authorize troops to be sent to Benghazi?"
Don't be foolish, that would be an act of war, bad idea.
obama had already attacked Libya... why couldn't he do it again, only this time, to protect American lives.
miner49er wrote:
"couldn't manage any air support?"
Great idea, air strikes on a residential neighborhood without any type of Forward Air Control or targeting... another bad idea.
Our Americans WERE laser targeting the bad guys... the only problem was, the air support they thought would be there, for some reason wasn't. That allowed the attackers to target the two Americans instead.
miner49er wrote:
And you would have Obama commence ground and air assaults on a country in the middle of a civil war,
Civil war, that ended when they killed Gaddafi... almost a year before.(It was in all the papers).
miner49er wrote:
all without Congressional approval.
Did obama have Congressional approval when he first attacked Libya? You really need to think before you type.
miner49er wrote:
Have you ever even read that Constitution thingy?
Aced the test.
miner49er wrote:
"Why has nobody been fired for the huge display of incompetence that got our Ambassador and three other Americans killed?"
You think someone should be fired?
ABSOLUTELY!!!
miner49er wrote:
Why didn't you complain about the 13 attacks on real American Embassies under George W. Bush?
"13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News"
It's a little different when places are being attacked when you're at war in the region.
miner49er wrote:
"Not only have numerous sources previously debunked the Benghazi information being peddled by the Republicans and Fox News
Great. Then answer the questions.

Where was obama on the night of 9/11/12?

Did obama authorize troops to be sent to BENGHAZI?

If not, why not?

If he did, who countermanded the pResident's order?

Why were we able to get up drones over Benghazi to send live TV back to the State Department and the White House, but couldn't manage any air support?

What did Hillary do on the night of 9/11/12 while her people were being killed and her Consulate was being destroyed?

Why has nobody been fired for the huge display of incompetence that got our Ambassador and three other Americans killed?
miner49er wrote:
(for example, contrary to what the Republicans are saying, yes, reinforcements did in fact arrive before the attack on the CIA compound),
Too bad the folks in Benghazi didn't know reinforcements had arrived to save them.(Remember, reinforcements sent to Tripoli is not reinforcements sent to Benghazi).

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#163802 Jun 26, 2013
Rudyard Kiplingesque wrote:
<quoted text>
People are always making idiot mistakes like that. When we lived in Packwood Washington, the 'chehalis' tribe, a bunch of 1/8 Native Blood folks who somehow got tribal recognition, kept badgering me about what to do about my daughter's CP. They'd see something on the 'discovery channel' and vehemently tell me that it was a cure for Kelly. I'd tell them that what they saw was something for chronic back problems, and they would not listen. One thing they were sure about was that horseback riding would have Kelly 'cured within six months'. I'm sure that the medical community would have been interested in that.

I was 'up' on all the latest rumbles in the medical field regarding CP. The 'net was new, and I read Everything on the subject. In 1989, they had come up with the 'tendonnectomy', I believe it was called. I saw a documentary on PBS, and two days later Kelly's doc invited me to a conference. He and a full med staff were discussing the operation. They started by telling me that there was a new procedure, and I asked if the tendonnectomy was what they were talking about. They looked at each other, and Kelly's doc finally said,'You've heard of this? It only became available recently.' I told him yes, and I thought that Kelly was Way too young to start butchering her legs before other alternatives had been exhausted. She was only three. Six years later, Kelly was running up and down the halls, using her walker and playing hide and seek with her older brother and friends.

Of course, the state stepped in and took Kelly away, saying that I was too crippled to take care of her properly. They then put Kelly in a foster home that didn't allow her to use her walker. "It's bad for the carpet.' the foster parents claimed. In the six years they had her, they Never sent her to physical therapy, and Kelly's leg tendons tightened up to the point she cannot straighten her legs out anymore.

If they had, I believe that Kelly would be walking, maybe with a cane, but not dependent to a wheelchair anymore. But,'bad for the carpet' has doomed Kelly to a wheelchair for the rest of her life.
How's that for stupid?
Blackheart, it really does not get any more stupid than that. I'm sorry.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#163803 Jun 26, 2013
BobinTX wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you were discussing the IRS, but these questions have been unanswered a whole lot longer, although we're running multiple government investigations. They're worthless.
Yep, and I want the answers to Benghazi same as you. But the Chicago thugs meet with their mouthpieces behind closed doors to go over the best way(s) to delay & stonewall.

So after trying to detract with a speech on global warming, the rookie-in-chief decides to spend an additional $100M that we can't afford, so that he and his loved ones can travel to Africa to see Mandela one last time.

Hell why didn't he just stop off in Africa on his way home from Belfast?
miner49er

Princeton, WV

#163804 Jun 26, 2013
"Libya is not in the midst of a civil war, that's Syria buddy. "

No, we're discussing Benghazi which is located in... Libya!

So I guess "You have no clue what you're talking about.".

"obama had already attacked Libya... "

Not with the ground or air assaults you seem to crave. Do you think you can use Tomahawks on residential areas with surgical precision?

"Our Americans WERE laser targeting the bad guys... the only problem was, the air support they thought would be there, for some reason wasn't."

You think there were teams painting the terrs with laser target designators?
Then why didn't the targetting teams aid the State dept. boyos?

Nope, no teams, Tomahawks don't use laser designators.

"It's a little different when places are being attacked when you're at war in the region.
miner49er wrote: "

Really, are you unaware of the 68,000 US combat troop operating in Afghanistan?

"As of early June there were just under 100,000 Nato troops serving in Afghanistan from 50 contributing nations, the International Security and Assistance Force (Isaf) said.
Of these the bulk - about 68,000 - are US troops. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11...

Is it a war?

"Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said the insurgents fired two rockets into the Bagram Air Base outside the Afghan capital, Kabul, late on Tuesday. American officials confirmed the base had come under attack by indirect fire — likely a mortar or rocket — and that four U.S. troops were killed."

If it ain't, the soldiers doing the fighting and dying say it's the best imitation they've seen...

Yes, where was Bush on 9/12/06?

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#163805 Jun 26, 2013
BobinTX wrote:
<quoted text>
At least I know Benghazi is in Libya, not Syria.
Yes but remember, this comes from the same hillbilly who's
convinced Texas is NOT part of the US.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#163806 Jun 26, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
That was an award winning ignorant-moronic-statement. No argument here.
==
Joe Salazar (D) made one which ties him for first place in my view and in the view of alot of other women. When involving himself in the debate on whether or not permits for concealed guns for women on college campuses should be allowed, big Joe took a turn at the bat with this comment:

"It’s why we have call boxes, it’s why we have safe zones, it’s why we have the whistles. Because you just don’t know who you’re gonna be shooting at. And you don’t know if you feel like you’re gonna be raped, or if you feel like someone’s been following you around or if you feel like you’re in trouble when you may actually not be, that you pop out that gun and you pop … pop a round at somebody."

"Women won't know who they're shooting at?" Joe opined he was fearful women may shoot first and ask questions later because... why? Does he view women as hysterical, unable to tell when they are in danger? Not adroit enough to handle a boys toy? Do womens "feelings" get in the way of sound judgement? Maybe Joe thinks they shouldn't be at college in the first place. Joe sounds like the kind of lugnut who when spoken to by a woman in a way that doesn't please him, asks her if she's having her period.

Being pro choice I agree women should have autonomy over their body but when a party states a woman should be allowed to have an abortion but not carry a gun to protect herself, sorry but that just seems a little screwy to me.

I'd like to tell Joe something about women. Women are the undisputed experts at being on the receiving end of domestic violence. Their wishes to prevent it by evening up the odds should be met. Women are the undisputed experts on being raped. Their wishes to prevent it by evening up the odds should be met. The 2nd leading cause of death for pregnant women in this country is homicide by the man who fathered the child. I guess when those women blew their whistles, no one heard them, I guess they should have stayed in a "safe zone." I guess they should have run faster to a call box......maybe if they didn't run like a girl they woulda made it.

Liberals are in favor of a poor woman living in Harlem going to an abortion clinic to excercise her right over bodily autonomy. They are not in favor of her being able to protect herself to get there.
...and the wheel of stupid goes round and round.
Where did this guy get this "safe zone" nonsense from? For women, there is NO such thing as a rape-free "safe zone." I mean, NONE whatsoever, and it doesn't matter what "kind" of woman she is, either. Queens have been raped. Housewives have been raped. Nuns and prostitutes have been raped. Old ladies on their deathbeds and women on the gynecologist's examining table have been raped. For heaven's sake, BABIES have been raped. Only six weeks ago, Ohio executed a piece of scum named Steve Smith, for RAPING AND MURDERING 6 month old Autumn Carter in 1998. A woman is subject to rape and worse quite literally from her birth to her death.

Brava, Lyndi :)

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