Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#162931 May 28, 2013
Rudyard Kiplingesque wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you're wrong there, Bobbi. Didn't jesus say,' within a day, one of you will betray me.'? Sounds preordained to me, plus the fact that Only one betrayed him. wanna argue against predestiny? Jesus also said, "I knew you before you were born."
So, if J knew someone was going to do it, isn't it obvious that he also knew who would do it. And wouldn't that also prove predestiny?
Just noodling here.
On rereading this, Blackheart, I feel I should add one more note. Yes, Jesus did indeed say at the Last Supper, "One of you is going to betray Me," but He had also said similar things on at least two previous occasions as well.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

#162933 May 28, 2013
BobinTX wrote:
How are those cities with the toughest gun control laws making out?
<quoted text>
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/20334513-4...
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.
That is why some sheriffs are saying flat out they will disobey new gun control laws. They know the only thing that will come of it will be more people killed. If that does happen I'm thinking it could get very ugly at some point. I also know a few people that do carry in places that are "gun free zones." The logic of one of my friends is he would rather protect his family and end up in jail than watch them die.

http://www.greeleytribune.com/news/5575283-11...

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Response-posit...

“"Tanners Flat" U dummy”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#162934 May 28, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Your 14 y/o daughter must have gotten her maturity from her mother.......
And you base that on knowing next to nothing about me and nothing about my ex.

Brilliant!

Tell me more....

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#162935 May 28, 2013
Yellow Star Seed is Back wrote:
<quoted text>
And you base that on knowing next to nothing about me and nothing about my ex.
Brilliant!
Tell me more....
What I can tell you is I've been reading you for quite awhile, so I have plenty to base that statement on. How many times have you been kicked off topix now? I've lost count. Guess I'm not to brilliant..........

“"Tanners Flat" U dummy”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#162936 May 28, 2013
You're very familiar with judas, maybe an understudy.
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
Strictly as a theological point, Judas DID have a choice, actually two choices. He chose to betray Jesus, and afterward when he realized that he had betrayed innocent blood, he had a choice whom he could ask for forgiveness. He chose the Pharisees, and as we know, found no comfort there.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#162937 May 28, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
Rudyard Kiplingesque wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you're wrong there, Bobbi. Didn't jesus say,' within a day, one of you will betray me.'? Sounds preordained to me, plus the fact that Only one betrayed him. wanna argue against predestiny? Jesus also said, "I knew you before you were born."
So, if J knew someone was going to do it, isn't it obvious that he also knew who would do it. And wouldn't that also prove predestiny?
Just noodling here.
<quoted text>
Noodling is good.
Noodling is okay.
Noodling is just fine ;)
I agree with what Lis said, and I also stand by what I wrote. Did Jesus KNOW that it was Judas who was going to betray Him? Yes, absolutely. The Bible makes that very clear: Jesus, Who is God incarnate, knows our every thought, knows even the thoughts we haven't yet had, but one day will have. Of course He knew that Judas would betray Him.
But is KNOWING what will happen the same as CAUSING it to happen? No, I don't think it is. If you look up at a very dark, purplish sky you know that a storm is about to break (my dad and I saw on a drive last week a sky that looked like it was about to spawn four tornadoes at the same time, and I was literally praying for divine protection, but I digress), but have you CAUSED that storm? No, nothing you did or could do would affect the storm.
In the same way, if you tell your 12 year old son he can choose between a brand new baseball glove or an entire 20" pizza with all the works for him alone, YOU know, as the parent who knows his son, which the boy will choose. But you haven't CAUSED him to choose either one. All you've done is given him the right to choose.
Judas too had the right to choose. At any moment up to his actual betrayal of Jesus, he could have changed his mind. And even after his betrayal, he still could have looked to the Lord for forgiveness.
In the whole Passion scenario, the character I personally have always felt sorry for was Pontius Pilate. Now, THERE was a guy who was truly in a no-win situation. He lets Jesus go free--the Pharisees will report him to Caesar and he will lose his job, maybe even his life. He crucifies Jesus--he has to live with the knowledge that the Man has done zip to warrant death. To make things worse, he gets a message from Mrs. Pilate that he'll leave Jesus alone if he knows what's good for him, AND Jesus Himself is hardly saying a word, certainly nothing like "I've been framed, let me go, man!" And if you delve deeper into Biblical and Roman history, you find there's even more complications. The poor guy probably got tight on Roman wine for a week after telling Jesus "Hey, you want it, you got it" :s
There were at least a few times when Moses had to talk God out of destroying the Isrealites. Thats kind of strange since he already knew he wouldn't destroy them. No offense but the whole thing is kind of silly. He knew back then I was going to hell. he knew back then some of you were going to heaven. The plan has been completed, Jesus said it is finished. Why play it out any longer, he knows whose been naughty and nice. Lets get on with it.......

Oh thats right, for some reason he needs to let Satan tempt and destroy souls for another who knows how many thousands of years, even though the price has been paid.

Not trying to argue here. JMO.........

“"Tanners Flat" U dummy”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#162938 May 28, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
What I can tell you is I've been reading you for quite awhile, so I have plenty to base that statement on.
Is that so?
Rider on the Storm wrote:
How many times have you been kicked off topix now? I've lost count. Guess I'm not to brilliant..........
Guess not.

It didn't take long for you to contradict yourself, did it?!?!?!?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#162939 May 28, 2013
Yellow Star Seed is Back wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that so?
<quoted text>
Guess not.
It didn't take long for you to contradict yourself, did it?!?!?!?
Yellow, for your OWN sake, please knock off this little guerrilla war. In case you haven't noticed, nobody else is playing. Meanwhile you're making yourself look worse and worse, while I on the other hand have come up smelling like a rose without even trying. Seriously, you are embarrassing yourself and it's really sad to see. I'd prefer to go on disliking you than pitying you.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#162940 May 28, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
There were at least a few times when Moses had to talk God out of destroying the Isrealites. Thats kind of strange since he already knew he wouldn't destroy them. No offense but the whole thing is kind of silly. He knew back then I was going to hell. he knew back then some of you were going to heaven. The plan has been completed, Jesus said it is finished. Why play it out any longer, he knows whose been naughty and nice. Lets get on with it...

Oh thats right, for some reason he needs to let Satan tempt and destroy souls for another who knows how many thousands of years, even though the price has been paid.
Not trying to argue here. JMO.........
Larry, I don't mind the arguing, as long as it's good-natured and doesn't get personal :)

It took me a LONG time to reconcile how God could change His mind about destroying the Hebrews while knowing at the same time He was GOING to change His mind about it !?!

But yes, that's exactly what happened. It IS a paradox, and that's how I resolved that little dilemma. In my limited human way, I can't understand how the Lord could change His mind at a given point in time, even while knowing (since He Himself created time) that He was GOING to change His mind at that specific point in time. But we know that WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. So this is possible, too, and there's plenty of other paradoxes in Christianity as well, more than enough to keep human beings debating them for centuries :)

When Jesus said "It is finished" He didn't mean that it was time to pull the plug on humanity. He meant that HIS DIVINE MISSION OF PROCURING SALVATION FOR HUMANITY HAD BEEN COMPLETED. Jesus had lived a sinless human life, and had suffered and died to complete His sacrifice of taking on Himself the punishment WE deserved for our sins. And then in His divine power as God incarnate He rose again, defeating death, sin and Satan forever, blessed be His name :)

Of course the Lord knows who's been naughty and nice :) But salvation doesn't depend on how good you've been, because nobody, NOBODY can ever be perfect, as Jesus was. Salvation depends on WHETHER OR YOU ACCEPT THAT JESUS IS GOD'S SON, WHO LAID DOWN HIS LIFE FOR YOU. That's it.

As for any delay in all that:

2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. Instead He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

I don't know about that thousand years business. That's from the Revelation, and I've always believed that except for the first 3 or 4 chapters, the Book is largely symbolic, including the thousand years. A few years ago, I participated in a Bible study about the Revelation, which strengthened my opinion considerably, and from which I learned that the Jews of John's day considered "thousand years" to mean simply a long time, in the same way that that famous "144,000 which will be saved" that Jehovah's Witnesses like to take literally, means "a whole bunch of people." Partly as a result of that Bible study, I believe the Revelation is the record of seven divine visions, sent to John, to assure him and the world through him, that the end of the world WILL come one day, wrongdoers will be punished, and that Jesus WILL return to bring all who believe in Him to live with Him in heaven forever.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#162941 May 28, 2013
Lost In Transition wrote:
<quoted text>
Judas was framed!!!
And then he blew up.
A whole different spin to "I'll have mine on the rocks," ain't it?

I suspect Judas was framed, but not in his time. I think he did exactly as he was supposed to do, and subsequent gospel "historians" rewrote his role for their own purposes. Even Paul, the Great Missionary, doesn't seem to know of the betrayal story, for not once in all his writing does he ever mention a betrayal. In I Cor. 15:5, Paul even mentions Jesus' appearing to "the Twelve". This is a broad hint that the Judas betrayal was fabricated even later than Paul's writing. I propose that Jesus fully intended to get himself arrested, and Judas only did what he was assigned to do.

Let's start with Jesus picking someone to do the deed. What did the disciples respond? All around the table, "Surely not I, Lord?" What does Judas reply? "Surely not I, Lord?" What an odd thing to say, don't you think? Why would they all say that? Because NOBODY wants this onerous task. Clearly they've received an instruction they completely understand, and all find repugnant. This casts a new light on the scene - Jesus needed to pick one to execute the more unsavory portions of his plan, and Judas just drew short straw. Listen to the words again, "Surely not I, Lord?" Notice Jesus indicates this in full view of everyone, and not one disciple objects - not feisty and mercurial Peter, not even the Sons of Thunder.

The writer of GoJohn in fact does something inexplicable - he has Jesus >say< clearly that he is to be betrayed, he shows just as clearly who is the Betrayer, and then, he instructs that one to go get started. THEN the writer says that the disciples didn't understand what they just saw and heard!

What!? Either these 11 guys are the most monumental dunderheads to ever follow a Messiah, or something ain't quite right about the telling of it. Read it yourself - Jesus couldn't have made it more clear. What we have here is the author relating a true event, but he has to weave this more insidious motive into it, and it comes off just as we would expect - it conflicts with itself as written! Far from objecting to what they've just witnessed with their eyes and ears, the disciples are most likely relieved! Somebody had to do this nasty job, and we can imagine them all slumped down in their seat and looking at the ground, hoping Jesus looks elsewhere. Isn't it obvious that Judas was merely Jesus' assistant in undertaking a most distasteful but necessary task?

Next, look back to the preceding week - has Jesus not engineered this whole thing down to the finest detail? Did Jesus not tell his disciples what was to happen in Jerusalem? When Peter objects vehemently, doesn't Jesus rebuke him as severely as he ever spoke to anyone? In numerous instances the entire week, prophecy is not just fulfilled, Jesus specially arranges things "so that they might be fulfilled". So, why did the disciples watch Jesus instruct Judas, and say or do nothing?

Because he was acting his assigned role. It was later writers who demonized this role. Why? Well, that's a whole 'nother story....

“"Tanners Flat" U dummy”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#162942 May 28, 2013
Quiet everyone, the pretentious one speaks...
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
Yellow, for your OWN sake, please knock off this little guerrilla war. In case you haven't noticed, nobody else is playing. Meanwhile you're making yourself look worse and worse, while I on the other hand have come up smelling like a rose without even trying. Seriously, you are embarrassing yourself and it's really sad to see. I'd prefer to go on disliking you than pitying you.
How would you know how this looks to everyone?!?!?!?!?

Unbelievable.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#162943 May 28, 2013
Yellow Star Seed is Back wrote:
Quiet everyone, the pretentious one speaks... <quoted text>
How would you know how this looks to everyone?!?!?!?!?
Unbelievable.
Well, folks, just remember I tried.
Joe dugooder

Spencer, MA

#162944 May 28, 2013
What movie were you watching?

Www.newdrivewaypaving.com
berserker

Lodi, CA

#162945 May 29, 2013
Let us not forget that America is a war time economy. Also, isnt is laughable that the most sophisticated inteligence service on the planet simply had (bad intel)? Thats all the war criminal Bush and his lap dog had to say to get away with high treason? Then there is this, who do you think armed the whole middle east to the teeth? Then we wonder why there is a problem? Did it ever occur to anyone that the middle east is getting sick of being (jacked around) and plundered by the us? If he Saddam had WMD he probably baught them from America!
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#162946 May 29, 2013
berserker wrote:
Then there is this, who do you think armed the whole middle east to the teeth? Then we wonder why there is a problem.
There's plenty of blame to go around for that and >I< don't wonder why there is a problem.


If the modern world hadn't relied on the Middle East for oil, it's inhabitants would still be going through internal growing pains of slowly evolving into the modern age like most other nations. <shrug> Or, they would have rejected the modern age and stayed antiquated for another couple hundred years.

Billions and billions of dollars have poured into a relatively backward part of the globe much of which hadn't changed much since biblical times and was done so by multiple nations....not just the US and not just by republican administrations. And a case can be made that going from internal tribal wars with rocks and clubs fighting over whose sand grew the best bananas.... to suddenly having the monetary ability to buy big boy weapons, changed the entire dynamic of the region and the world. Giving keys to a Ferrari to someone who has only handled a donkey cart, was a bad idea.

I certainly hope the oil you use in your everyday life comes only from the US and you reject all foreign oil based products. From the tone of your post I will assume you're pushing this administration hard----> to drill at home. As you probably know, we can't have it both ways. No administration would trade weapons and US lives for oil, if it's people didn't demand it.
frogurs

Pittsburgh, PA

#162947 May 29, 2013
youtube.com/watch...
If Bush is a Hero were is at Today?

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#162948 May 29, 2013
frogurs wrote:
youtube.com/watch?v=5bkae8nr2w Q
If Bush is a Hero were is at Today?
..."were is at today?...
You didn't get to middle school, huh?

“Take It To The Limit”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#162949 May 29, 2013
Bad Bob stole my line!

“"Tanners Flat" U dummy”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#162950 May 29, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, folks, just remember I tried.
...you tried to make it a popularity contest rather than issue oriented debate. You are a GWB supporter and regular to this thread while I am and have pretty much been a dissenter from the start.

Nice try tho
Roberta G

United States

#162951 May 29, 2013
Yellow Star Seed is Back wrote:
<quoted text>
...you tried to make it a popularity contest rather than issue oriented debate. You are a GWB supporter and regular to this thread while I am and have pretty much been a dissenter from the start.
Nice try tho
*sigh*No, Yellow. I tried to help you see that you're making yourself look bad to others besides me. You could have been treating anyone the same way--another regular, regardless of his or her views, and you'd still have shown yourself to be a jerk.

And everyone here knows that I always have and still do support George Bush. Not exactly a shocking revelation there.

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