I think you're wrong there, Bobbi. Didn't jesus say,' within a day, one of you will betray me.'? Sounds preordained to me, plus the fact that Only one betrayed him. wanna argue against predestiny? Jesus also said, "I knew you before you were born."
So, if J knew someone was going to do it, isn't it obvious that he also knew who would do it. And wouldn't that also prove predestiny?
Just noodling here.
Noodling is good.<quoted text>Actually BH he was betrayed all over the place. By Peter and most of his apostles, by the jewish crowd who had idolized him at one time and then screamed for his crucifixion. I believe that they would have arrested Him with or without Judas. But more than guilt I believe it shows human nature. We are all at some time or another fickle or cowardly but the real point is are we sorry and to we try to be better. Judas just gave up and he didn't have to.
Noodling is okay.
Noodling is just fine ;)
I agree with what Lis said, and I also stand by what I wrote. Did Jesus KNOW that it was Judas who was going to betray Him? Yes, absolutely. The Bible makes that very clear: Jesus, Who is God incarnate, knows our every thought, knows even the thoughts we haven't yet had, but one day will have. Of course He knew that Judas would betray Him.
But is KNOWING what will happen the same as CAUSING it to happen? No, I don't think it is. If you look up at a very dark, purplish sky you know that a storm is about to break (my dad and I saw on a drive last week a sky that looked like it was about to spawn four tornadoes at the same time, and I was literally praying for divine protection, but I digress), but have you CAUSED that storm? No, nothing you did or could do would affect the storm.
In the same way, if you tell your 12 year old son he can choose between a brand new baseball glove or an entire 20" pizza with all the works for him alone, YOU know, as the parent who knows his son, which the boy will choose. But you haven't CAUSED him to choose either one. All you've done is given him the right to choose.
Judas too had the right to choose. At any moment up to his actual betrayal of Jesus, he could have changed his mind. And even after his betrayal, he still could have looked to the Lord for forgiveness.
In the whole Passion scenario, the character I personally have always felt sorry for was Pontius Pilate. Now, THERE was a guy who was truly in a no-win situation. He lets Jesus go free--the Pharisees will report him to Caesar and he will lose his job, maybe even his life. He crucifies Jesus--he has to live with the knowledge that the Man has done zip to warrant death. To make things worse, he gets a message from Mrs. Pilate that he'll leave Jesus alone if he knows what's good for him, AND Jesus Himself is hardly saying a word, certainly nothing like "I've been framed, let me go, man!" And if you delve deeper into Biblical and Roman history, you find there's even more complications. The poor guy probably got tight on Roman wine for a week after telling Jesus "Hey, you want it, you got it" :s