Bush is a hero

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#161243 Apr 13, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
VERY well said, but don't expect the World Idiot to get it.
A little food for thought.

It won't surprise y'all that I'm not a fan of Margaret Thatcher.

And I expect that you and the other Republicans here are.

Thatcher was a strong supporter of Britain's single payer plan.

She wasn't all bad.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#161244 Apr 13, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>First of all he was not comparing homosexuality to bestiality, as much as people wish he had. he was saying as Bad Bob says that any group can want to change the definition of marriage and was listing them. I don't agree one leads to the other but I see where people get concerned when you start redefining things. He also had the guts to apologize for how it was taken and didn't get all ruffled about the insults lobbed at him.
Now that is Rationalization Par Excellence. Hey, it is what it is. Compared it/listed it, tomayto/tomahto. He's no fool, right? We really only have two choices - either he knows damn well that placing gay marriage, bestiality, and pedophilia in the same conversation equates them all in the listener's mind, OR he's not quite as bright as legend would have us believe. I say he's brilliant, so..... Obviously he realized the demeaning nature of the "listing" after the fact, because he apologized. End and period.

It's no wonder that the more open-minded among his defense team completely avoid or rationalize away the actual >reason< he received so much attention. It makes them uncomfortable as well, so they focus instead on the more extreme fringe of the inevitable and deserving backlash, relying on these few questionable examples to call it all "vicious" attacks on a conservative who happens to be black. But his demeaning statements? Not vicious. hmmm...
lisw wrote:
<quoted text> I guess that's the surgeon in him, a surgeon can't get ruffled. See now I don't understand how calling him a token isn't vicious, or saying republicans are trying to assuage their guilt isn't. I suppose that Condaleeza Rice dressed as Aunt Jemima didn't offend your sensibilities either.
Condi Rice? How did she make her way into this? Oh, I get it.

Well, this misdirection to a blast from the past leads me to suspect you know the backlash against Carson's statements aren't as vividly nasty as needed to make a point?
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>She took it with astonishing good grace though, didn't run to Al Sharpton (who wouldn't have helped her anyway). I'm asking for fairness among those in the media, and manners. Toure is a so called journalist for MSNBC. You have never heard me base a criticism of Obama on his race, and I've never heard you criticize a republican based on race. I expect the same from people who have a national podium. If democrats can't stop making it about color how can they expect anyone else to. Isn't that what we are going for here, not the color but the character.
C'mon, do I really have to bring up the truly scurrilous statements that have been lodged at the "Halfrican in the Black House"? The guy that allegedly has a "deep-seated hatred for white people"? Or the ugly sexism still being lodged at a woman for speaking in public on a public issue? I really can't process how people can seem to see "viciousness" with such clarity, but ONLY if it comes from the left side of the street. Curious, that.

Point being, this crap flies back and forth from the fringes, and you on your side and I on my side are embarrassed by their freedom to loose whatever crap oozes from their lips. But! This crap lives a life much beyond their worth due NOT to their origin, but to the inevitable repeats by the newly sensitive and outraged opposition. More of this stuff in one "party" over another? Sorry, No sale here.

That's all I'll say on the the misdirection ploy. It's about Carson, not every other "outrage" over the last 20 years. As for the defense rationalization for Dr. Ben, I see both a Backhanded race card and a victimization ploy - not sure which one is being employed more gratuitously.
UidiotRaceMKEWOR LDPEACE

United States

#161245 Apr 13, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Better, or just more comprehensive?
Here, if one can afford it, one gets the very best care in the world.
There, regardless of what one could plausibly afford, one is given the care authorized by the government.
There is a difference.
Cuba do have Comprehensive Health Care and Healthcare cost way way lower than USA (By 20 to 1 , Yearly USA USD 7000 and Cuba $300), and mortality rate is on par with US... Cuban Preventative care is success story vs US treat the disease as it appears. Medical bills cost human live in USA is 60% of all U.S. bankruptcies according to CNN. USA healthcare is for-profit institution , inhuman and uncaring , and as for Cuban healthcare system is about treating and preventative care, and if you miss appointment then come to you home ...

Primary care in Cuba: a public health approach.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7649887

Primary care in Cuba: a public health ... of primary care, Cuba's model is a comprehensive public health approach that ... than that of the US (1993, 9.4 vs. 8 ..
====

Cuban Health care on par with USA, and Mortality rate of Cuba little better than US.

The United States does not have the best health care system in the world
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-united-st...

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#161246 Apr 14, 2013
UidiotRaceMKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
<quoted text> Cuba do have Comprehensive Health Care and Healthcare cost way way lower than USA (By 20 to 1 , Yearly USA USD 7000 and Cuba $300), and mortality rate is on par with US... Cuban Preventative care is success story vs US treat the disease as it appears. Medical bills cost human live in USA is 60% of all U.S. bankruptcies according to CNN. USA healthcare is for-profit institution , inhuman and uncaring , and as for Cuban healthcare system is about treating and preventative care, and if you miss appointment then come to you home ...
Primary care in Cuba: a public health approach.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7649887
Primary care in Cuba: a public health ... of primary care, Cuba's model is a comprehensive public health approach that ... than that of the US (1993, 9.4 vs. 8 ..
====
Cuban Health care on par with USA, and Mortality rate of Cuba little better than US.
The United States does not have the best health care system in the world
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-united-st...
How nice for them.

But I don't want to live in Cuba.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#161247 Apr 14, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Now that is Rationalization Par Excellence. Hey, it is what it is. Compared it/listed it, tomayto/tomahto. He's no fool, right? We really only have two choices - either he knows damn well that placing gay marriage, bestiality, and pedophilia in the same conversation equates them all in the listener's mind, OR he's not quite as bright as legend would have us believe. I say he's brilliant, so..... Obviously he realized the demeaning nature of the "listing" after the fact, because he apologized. End and period.
It's no wonder that the more open-minded among his defense team completely avoid or rationalize away the actual >reason< he received so much attention. It makes them uncomfortable as well, so they focus instead on the more extreme fringe of the inevitable and deserving backlash, relying on these few questionable examples to call it all "vicious" attacks on a conservative who happens to be black. But his demeaning statements? Not vicious. hmmm...
<quoted text>Condi Rice? How did she make her way into this? Oh, I get it.
Well, this misdirection to a blast from the past leads me to suspect you know the backlash against Carson's statements aren't as vividly nasty as needed to make a point?
<quoted text>C'mon, do I really have to bring up the truly scurrilous statements that have been lodged at the "Halfrican in the Black House"? The guy that allegedly has a "deep-seated hatred for white people"? Or the ugly sexism still being lodged at a woman for speaking in public on a public issue? I really can't process how people can seem to see "viciousness" with such clarity, but ONLY if it comes from the left side of the street. Curious, that.
Point being, this crap flies back and forth from the fringes, and you on your side and I on my side are embarrassed by their freedom to loose whatever crap oozes from their lips. But! This crap lives a life much beyond their worth due NOT to their origin, but to the inevitable repeats by the newly sensitive and outraged opposition. More of this stuff in one "party" over another? Sorry, No sale here.
That's all I'll say on the the misdirection ploy. It's about Carson, not every other "outrage" over the last 20 years. As for the defense rationalization for Dr. Ben, I see both a Backhanded race card and a victimization ploy - not sure which one is being employed more gratuitously.
Hip you're tiresome. I try to answer your question honestly and you can't come back with just a disagreeing point it has to be flip and belittling. I understand that's your schtick but I refuse to be told everytime that I rationalize, present strawmen etc. I guess sadly it's just best that I don't try to answer your question since it is clear you don't want "my" answer.
You know that Condi was one of the most abused by the left. We were not just talking about one person but about the whole concept.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#161248 Apr 14, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
I do hope democrats don't nominate another African American for president anytime soon. Until playing the race card is completely taboo and not employed by liberals as a key tool to get someone elected, it simply doesn't work in the best interest of the nation.
I saw the writing on the wall before he was elected and I say this with confidence because it is an undeniable truth that little criticism of such a president can be voiced without the left screaming, "racist." No eyebrow raising at his performance can be done without the racist agents suiting up and stepping in to fight a non-existent enemy, no taking him to task for dubious decisions made, no finger pointing is permitted without the underlying racist chess move attached to it. Much of the JUNK he gets away with, refuses to comment on or simply buries because he feels like it, our once objective presidential critics and citizens are now timid about appropriately slamming him for fear of being either labeled or ignored. Yelling racist has become the prelude to avoidance. A reasonable, thorough response from this administration on the hard questions without being met with smoke and mirrors, is a rarity.
Why?
Because they can.
A case can absolutely be made that keeping an eye and a thumb on this president is almost impossible and in my view, dangerous. He gets pass after pass after pass because of the color of his skin and the media with few exceptions acts as his handy dandy defensive linebackers in nearly all matters. They and the trained seals (aka Obama devotees,) no matter what he does, never tire of yelling "racisim" and the independants, moderates, republicans and even many democrats are now gun shy because of it. It's a masterful trick, a brilliant move and one of the all time great plays in the sport of American politics.
You can't tether this guy because----> he's black.
Not long ago I had lunch with a woman who was Obama's superior at one time in Illinois. She remembers him as a cocky, swaggering, self enamoured, narcissist. Some things simply don't change with time and now that he's an official member of the very exclusive club of American presidents, I don't see him developing a sense of humility anytime soon and the lack of that important charecter trait is distrubing on multiple levels.
He was a monumental mistake for America and our decision to elect him in good part because a majority were in a reckless mood to create a "historical moment," was a decision we will pay for, for a very long time.
Just curious as to why you were having lunch with one of Obama's former superiors. Could you provide a name?

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#161249 Apr 14, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Hip you're tiresome. I try to answer your question honestly and you can't come back with just a disagreeing point it has to be flip and belittling. I understand that's your schtick but I refuse to be told everytime that I rationalize, present strawmen etc. I guess sadly it's just best that I don't try to answer your question since it is clear you don't want "my" answer.
You know that Condi was one of the most abused by the left. We were not just talking about one person but about the whole concept.
Well we were just talking about one person, and how his demeaning comments sparked a reaction (surprise?). You expanded that instance to say it shows another instance of "vicious" institutional bias in the Democratic Party and liberal media against black conservatives, and further that it is somehow a hallmark primarily OF the Democratic Party. For further example you brought in Condi Rice, a woman and a black conservative.

I believe I gamely followed your "whole concept" and showed that A) the remarks of a few unknowns do not constitute the voice of the Democratic Party, as you originally implied, and B) the left has no monopoly on the fringe, much less national figures, attacking those private and public citizens who dare to speak out. I, of course, would say that the racial comments toward the President and his wife, attacks on Sandra Fluke, attacks on Michael J. Fox, attacks on the "uninformed, handout-greedy" blacks who voted for Obama, etc ad nauseum, all originated by prominent national conservative figures, and many repeated, and tolerated, even defended, in this very forum, far outstrip anything some dude named Toure said on an obscure cable TV show(?) about Dr. Carson and the Republican party. But I understand you have your definition of "vicious" and I have mine. Vive la difference.

Regardless, it IS about Dr. Carson's degrading comments. Proof? Dr. Carson hardly appeared in this forum until AFTER his demeaning comments equating gay marriage with bestiality and pedophilia, and the subsequent reaction from the left AND right. He was on the RNC radar after his CPAC speech, but his "web-buzz factor" spiked only AFTER this incident.

Misdirecting the dialogue away from those specifics about Carson's comments, and re-directing them to a general indictment of the Democratic Party's treatment of black conservatives, is a transparent evasion tactic of those uncomfortable with what he actually said.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#161250 Apr 14, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Well we were just talking about one person, and how his demeaning comments sparked a reaction (surprise?). You expanded that instance to say it shows another instance of "vicious" institutional bias in the Democratic Party and liberal media against black conservatives, and further that it is somehow a hallmark primarily OF the Democratic Party. For further example you brought in Condi Rice, a woman and a black conservative.
I believe I gamely followed your "whole concept" and showed that A) the remarks of a few unknowns do not constitute the voice of the Democratic Party, as you originally implied, and B) the left has no monopoly on the fringe, much less national figures, attacking those private and public citizens who dare to speak out. I, of course, would say that the racial comments toward the President and his wife, attacks on Sandra Fluke, attacks on Michael J. Fox, attacks on the "uninformed, handout-greedy" blacks who voted for Obama, etc ad nauseum, all originated by prominent national conservative figures, and many repeated, and tolerated, even defended, in this very forum, far outstrip anything some dude named Toure said on an obscure cable TV show(?) about Dr. Carson and the Republican party. But I understand you have your definition of "vicious" and I have mine. Vive la difference.
Regardless, it IS about Dr. Carson's degrading comments. Proof? Dr. Carson hardly appeared in this forum until AFTER his demeaning comments equating gay marriage with bestiality and pedophilia, and the subsequent reaction from the left AND right. He was on the RNC radar after his CPAC speech, but his "web-buzz factor" spiked only AFTER this incident.
Misdirecting the dialogue away from those specifics about Carson's comments, and re-directing them to a general indictment of the Democratic Party's treatment of black conservatives, is a transparent evasion tactic of those uncomfortable with what he actually said.
"I" was not just talking about Ben Carson, I was using him as an example. Toure is as much a spokesman for the democratic party as Limbaugh is for the republican party. So let's keep this on even ground. It is only an attempt at misdirection if 'I" intended it as misdirection. You can't decide what the conversation is for everyone.

“Take It To The Limit”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#161251 Apr 14, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Well we were just talking about one person, and how his demeaning comments sparked a reaction (surprise?). You expanded that instance to say it shows another instance of "vicious" institutional bias in the Democratic Party and liberal media against black conservatives, and further that it is somehow a hallmark primarily OF the Democratic Party. For further example you brought in Condi Rice, a woman and a black conservative.
I believe I gamely followed your "whole concept" and showed that A) the remarks of a few unknowns do not constitute the voice of the Democratic Party, as you originally implied, and B) the left has no monopoly on the fringe, much less national figures, attacking those private and public citizens who dare to speak out. I, of course, would say that the racial comments toward the President and his wife, attacks on Sandra Fluke, attacks on Michael J. Fox, attacks on the "uninformed, handout-greedy" blacks who voted for Obama, etc ad nauseum, all originated by prominent national conservative figures, and many repeated, and tolerated, even defended, in this very forum, far outstrip anything some dude named Toure said on an obscure cable TV show(?) about Dr. Carson and the Republican party. But I understand you have your definition of "vicious" and I have mine. Vive la difference.
Regardless, it IS about Dr. Carson's degrading comments. Proof? Dr. Carson hardly appeared in this forum until AFTER his demeaning comments equating gay marriage with bestiality and pedophilia, and the subsequent reaction from the left AND right. He was on the RNC radar after his CPAC speech, but his "web-buzz factor" spiked only AFTER this incident.
Misdirecting the dialogue away from those specifics about Carson's comments, and re-directing them to a general indictment of the Democratic Party's treatment of black conservatives, is a transparent evasion tactic of those uncomfortable with what he actually said.
Who is this carson fellow?'Dr., is it? Is he michael jacksons doc? He's a lousy singer, by the way. The doc, that is. I thought michael was mediocre, but that's just my opinion.
Dennis Miller could be wrong.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#161252 Apr 14, 2013
Rudyard Kiplingesque wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is this carson fellow?'Dr., is it? Is he michael jacksons doc? He's a lousy singer, by the way. The doc, that is. I thought michael was mediocre, but that's just my opinion.
Dennis Miller could be wrong.
Check him out on the internet. I've known about him for awhile since my husband sees neurosurgeons, he turned up on my search. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon, brilliant but not in a way that he looks down his nose at everyone. I didn't know there was any thing political about him until his talk at the prayer breakfast where he boldly but politely talked against Obamacare and political correctness. I agree with him on most things and I believe he'd make a great president. he has as much experience as Obama had.

“Take It To The Limit”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#161253 Apr 14, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Check him out on the internet. I've known about him for awhile since my husband sees neurosurgeons, he turned up on my search. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon, brilliant but not in a way that he looks down his nose at everyone. I didn't know there was any thing political about him until his talk at the prayer breakfast where he boldly but politely talked against Obamacare and political correctness. I agree with him on most things and I believe he'd make a great president. he has as much experience as Obama had.
I re-wrote the budget for the east Lewis county Head Start program in 1996. I believe that That gives me more 'experience' than barry.
Politically, I'm pretty easy. I'll side with Anyone who's against obama. He's a political candy-ass, and gets away with shit just because he's black. Yeah, I know. That's what the others have been saying. I just put it in plain english.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#161254 Apr 14, 2013
Rudyard Kiplingesque wrote:
<quoted text>
I re-wrote the budget for the east Lewis county Head Start program in 1996. I believe that That gives me more 'experience' than barry.
Politically, I'm pretty easy. I'll side with Anyone who's against obama. He's a political candy-ass, and gets away with shit just because he's black. Yeah, I know. That's what the others have been saying. I just put it in plain english.
Blackheart for President!
Roberta G

Duluth, GA

#161255 Apr 14, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Blackheart for President!
He'd have MY vote :)

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#161256 Apr 14, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>"I" was not just talking about Ben Carson, I was using him as an example. Toure is as much a spokesman for the democratic party as Limbaugh is for the republican party. So let's keep this on even ground. It is only an attempt at misdirection if 'I" intended it as misdirection. You can't decide what the conversation is for everyone.
The notion that Toure is in the same league with Limbaugh as far as spokesman, let alone opinion shaper, is really quite ridiculous.

Do Toure's comments reflect the thinking of a segment of 'the left'?

Yes, and that's, if not understandable, at least predictable. As I pointed out the other day, supporters of the non-violent movement were busy calling opponents of marches and sit-ins 'tokens' at the same time they were being called tokens by those advocating more direct action.

Is this phenomenon limited to blacks, or to liberals? Hardly, and if you don't believe me just stay tuned as the debates on immigration and background checks unfold.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#161257 Apr 14, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>He'd have MY vote :)
Mine too... Kim Jong Un would face a grim future with BH in the White House.

:)

“Take It To The Limit”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#161258 Apr 14, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>The notion that Toure is in the same league with Limbaugh as far as spokesman, let alone opinion shaper, is really quite ridiculous.
Do Toure's comments reflect the thinking of a segment of 'the left'?
Yes, and that's, if not understandable, at least predictable. As I pointed out the other day, supporters of the non-violent movement were busy calling opponents of marches and sit-ins 'tokens' at the same time they were being called tokens by those advocating more direct action.
Is this phenomenon limited to blacks, or to liberals? Hardly, and if you don't believe me just stay tuned as the debates on immigration and background checks unfold.
The country as a whole is what? Lazy? uncaring? What? I mean, when lil' georgie said that the police would arrest any and all protesters against his war, the people LISTENED. In 1970, when Kent State happened, our school protested by spending the morning standing out on the field, refusing to go to class. As I remember, most of the country did it the same day.
What has to happen to this country to pull the people together like it used to be?
You know, as Little as we do here, if the wrong three catch words are used by two or more of us, homeland security could kick our doors in and arrest the lot of us. They could ship us off to GITMO, and nobody would know, or hear of us ever again, or even care.
Ah, what the hell. Maybe Jay-Z and bouncy would bring us a bag of cookies.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#161260 Apr 14, 2013
Rudyard Kiplingesque wrote:
<quoted text>
The country as a whole is what? Lazy? uncaring? What? I mean, when lil' georgie said that the police would arrest any and all protesters against his war, the people LISTENED. In 1970, when Kent State happened, our school protested by spending the morning standing out on the field, refusing to go to class. As I remember, most of the country did it the same day.
What has to happen to this country to pull the people together like it used to be?
You know, as Little as we do here, if the wrong three catch words are used by two or more of us, homeland security could kick our doors in and arrest the lot of us. They could ship us off to GITMO, and nobody would know, or hear of us ever again, or even care.
Ah, what the hell. Maybe Jay-Z and bouncy would bring us a bag of cookies.
Huh? I don't think GW said police would arrest war protesters.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#161261 Apr 14, 2013
Rudyard Kiplingesque wrote:
<quoted text>
The country as a whole is what? Lazy? uncaring? What? I mean, when lil' georgie said that the police would arrest any and all protesters against his war, the people LISTENED. In 1970, when Kent State happened, our school protested by spending the morning standing out on the field, refusing to go to class. As I remember, most of the country did it the same day.
What has to happen to this country to pull the people together like it used to be?
You know, as Little as we do here, if the wrong three catch words are used by two or more of us, homeland security could kick our doors in and arrest the lot of us. They could ship us off to GITMO, and nobody would know, or hear of us ever again, or even care.
Ah, what the hell. Maybe Jay-Z and bouncy would bring us a bag of cookies.
I can think of a lot of terms I could use to describe the aftermath of the invasion of Cambodia and the subsequent killings at Kent State, but 'pulling the people together' isn't one of them.

It pulled SOME people together in opposition; it pulled just as many, maybe more, together in support of Nixon, as evidenced by his victory in '72, even some people who had long ceased to support the war.
gaxaxxa

Pittsburgh, PA

#161262 Apr 14, 2013
youtube.com/watch... …………… U Born Again?
or Saved? Bush will Destroy Obama,,

“Take It To The Limit”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#161263 Apr 14, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>I can think of a lot of terms I could use to describe the aftermath of the invasion of Cambodia and the subsequent killings at Kent State, but 'pulling the people together' isn't one of them.
It pulled SOME people together in opposition; it pulled just as many, maybe more, together in support of Nixon, as evidenced by his victory in '72, even some people who had long ceased to support the war.
Yeah, but the point is people used to DO something about it. Marches, sit-ins, petitions and what have you. These days, everybody just lets it happen. Last thing I remember folks doing anything was the WTO meeting in Seattle a decade ago. That was kinda cool, because they were using their cell phones to co-ordinate the protests. Heck, they even made a movie about it (Battle In Seattle).
Jeez. Nobody said 'Boo' about the death of the Twinkie! Talk about apathetic. Don't worry too much. America's vapid response team is gonna get on it.
sooner or later.

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