Bush is a hero

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“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

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#160905
Apr 4, 2013
 
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>I'd say I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, but I'd be lying.
I find it reassuring.
Here is something I relate to. I feel good knowing we disagree as most of what you post is crap to me.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

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#160906
Apr 4, 2013
 

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lisw wrote:
<quoted text>I know there were problems on both sides. I know I've said that LBJ's great society to me was a nicely decorated apartheid. Welfare and housing may have solved the problems for a short period but the democratic party looked at it as a long term solution. To me it made the plight of black people worse. Now I fear the message from the democrats is "you can't make it on your own" which is a message "no one" needs to hear. The only ones not listening to that message is women. They have gone on to be better educated and make more many than men in many cases. Other groups , like immigrants and african americans, have believed they need the government.
I also wonder if the integration of the armed forces was different in different branches. my husband was army in '68 and felt that the army really was color blind. But maybe that's because he was white.
The military is no more color blind than the society it comes from. The same racial strife that wracked the country echoed through the military in the 60s and into the 70s.

I've known black guys who served in the Army around the time your husband did who swear it was the first time they were ever treated as equals by ANY white man, and I've known others who swear it was no better (and sometimes worse) than society at large. I also know that racial problems were rampant in Vietnam, but from my understanding the worst came after your husband was there.

I was in Naval aviation for my first tour, which in 1974 was barely and very uncomfortably integrated. If I remember right, we had the only black pilot out of six squadrons, each with at least 40 pilots of all ranks.

I'm trying not to overreact to your description of the Great Society programs as apartheid.

I mean, think about what you're saying here. These well intentioned (but poorly crafted and ultimately failed) programs were passed when discrimination in housing, education, jobs, voting, and opportunity in general were rampant and pervasive throughout American society north south east west - yet you choose to describe THEM as apartheid?

That's a bit of a reach he said with studied understatement, even if you accept the erroneous assumption that blacks were the only or even the principal intended beneficiaries of the Great Society programs.

I'm familiar with the argument you're making; I've heard it going back to Reagan, and before him both Nixon and Wallace in 68 and 72. Both of them, btw, opposed every last piece of legislation designed to overturn the REAL American apartheid known as Jim Crow.

There is a grain/elements of truth to the argument you're making, but nowhere near enough to support your (apparent) conclusion that the Democrats want to keep blacks in bondage or poverty or what-ever.
lisw

Wilmington, OH

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#160907
Apr 4, 2013
 
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>The military is no more color blind than the society it comes from. The same racial strife that wracked the country echoed through the military in the 60s and into the 70s.
I've known black guys who served in the Army around the time your husband did who swear it was the first time they were ever treated as equals by ANY white man, and I've known others who swear it was no better (and sometimes worse) than society at large. I also know that racial problems were rampant in Vietnam, but from my understanding the worst came after your husband was there.
I was in Naval aviation for my first tour, which in 1974 was barely and very uncomfortably integrated. If I remember right, we had the only black pilot out of six squadrons, each with at least 40 pilots of all ranks.
I'm trying not to overreact to your description of the Great Society programs as apartheid.
I mean, think about what you're saying here. These well intentioned (but poorly crafted and ultimately failed) programs were passed when discrimination in housing, education, jobs, voting, and opportunity in general were rampant and pervasive throughout American society north south east west - yet you choose to describe THEM as apartheid?
That's a bit of a reach he said with studied understatement, even if you accept the erroneous assumption that blacks were the only or even the principal intended beneficiaries of the Great Society programs.
I'm familiar with the argument you're making; I've heard it going back to Reagan, and before him both Nixon and Wallace in 68 and 72. Both of them, btw, opposed every last piece of legislation designed to overturn the REAL American apartheid known as Jim Crow.
There is a grain/elements of truth to the argument you're making, but nowhere near enough to support your (apparent) conclusion that the Democrats want to keep blacks in bondage or poverty or what-ever.
Tell me why then after WWII, and the resulting baby boom homes were built like crazy for people to "buy", small, affordable homes to accomodate the influx of people, but in order to accomodate the influx of black people to the North housing additions were built for cheap rent, by themselves, near the city,& not in the suburbs.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

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#160908
Apr 4, 2013
 
Lyndi wrote:
Regarding racism in retrospect and fast forward to the present, Democrats once again have it a$$ backwards. They spent the first century of this country's existence refusing to treat black people like human beings, the second century refusing to treat them like adults and now in the early years of the third century they have devised a fake war on blacks by republicans not unlike their fake war on women. Nothing is quite as funny as watching a democrat put on battle gear for a battle which doesn't exist-- against enemies who are not there.
After fighting the Civil War to continue enslaving black people and then subjecting newly freed black Americans to Jim Crow laws and Ku Klux Klan violence, Democrats set about frantically rewriting their own ugly history because they need their vote. Simple.
===
One of the primary reasons Ben Carson for example is taking so many hits by the left is because he's a conservative black man who pulled himself out of poverty and did what all people should admire. He made it and he made it big and he did it without the liberal philosophy. That doesn't work well for libs, hence the bashing. When he spoke against Obama policies at the prayer breakfast the libs cackled amongst themselves like crazed chickens that it was an inappropriate forum for such conversation. This American says anytime Obama doesn't have the mike is good time to take him to task considering our Campaigner in Chief rarely shuts up.
No one needs a brain surgeon to know that Democrats need the struggling African American to stay struggling. It makes for "great optics" as Barry would say..... and someone like Ben Carson puts a kink in their playbook. A black guy who grew up in poverty, without a father present, was told to shut off the TV and study and is now one of the most respected pediatric neurosurgeons in the world? And he's a man with conservative principles?
"GET HIM OFF THE STAGE!"
Btw, anyone want to hazard a guess as to the current unemploment percentage of blacks in America today under Obama?
Anyone want to hazard a guess at how many have stayed in poverty and how many more have slipped into poverty under----> Obama?
The numbers were so predictable, it's boring.
I had to look it up. Its around 16-17 %. I'll cite my souce so some loon says I'm not a plagiarist. Of note is Robert Johnson founder of Bet saying the nation wouldn't stand for this if it were whites.

http://newsone.com/1510935/black-unemployment...

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bet-founder-tells-...
Anon

Lakewood, OH

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#160909
Apr 4, 2013
 

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Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
The way people are leaving Ca. it won't be long before they cry for a bailout. I hope the rest of the nation tells them to own it and suck it up. Sad what that state was once and what it is today. I remember seeing a Toyota Corolla some time back and it was made in Fremont, Ca. That plant was closed right after the dear leader came to power.
General Motors pulled out of a joint effort with Toyota which eventually closed the plant. Obama had nothing to do with it.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

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#160910
Apr 4, 2013
 

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Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
General Motors pulled out of a joint effort with Toyota which eventually closed the plant. Obama had nothing to do with it.
Did Obamacare have anything to do with it? An unstable economy? Or was it just the skyrocketing taxes and failed leadership that CA. has been experiencing for years?

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

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#160911
Apr 4, 2013
 
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is something I relate to. I feel good knowing we disagree as most of what you post is crap to me.
LOL, ya but how do you really feel?

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#160912
Apr 4, 2013
 

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Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
I had to look it up. Its around 16-17 %. I'll cite my souce so some loon says I'm not a plagiarist. Of note is Robert Johnson founder of Bet saying the nation wouldn't stand for this if it were whites.
http://newsone.com/1510935/black-unemployment...
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bet-founder-tells-...
Government isn't doing much of anything for any race, in the jobs department.

But that's ok, because 'creating jobs' isn't the government's job.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

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#160913
Apr 4, 2013
 
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
General Motors pulled out of a joint effort with Toyota which eventually closed the plant. Obama had nothing to do with it.
Not Obama but from what I've read since it was the only union plant Toyota had workers in that did play a part. In fact Toyota said that it may have kept it open but Gm made the first move. You would have to be blind not to see how Obama like most dems in leadership are owned by the unions.

From 09 what I found"

G.M. discontinued the Pontiac Vibe, a small crossover vehicle built at Nummi, last week. In June, G.M. said its half of the Nummi venture would not be part of the reorganized company, forcing Toyota to determine the plantís future. Mr. Gettelfinger did not mention G.M.ís decision in his statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/28/business/28...

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

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#160914
Apr 4, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Government isn't doing much of anything for any race, in the jobs department.
But that's ok, because 'creating jobs' isn't the government's job.
Somebody should let the dear leader know.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

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#160915
Apr 4, 2013
 
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Obamacare have anything to do with it? An unstable economy? Or was it just the skyrocketing taxes and failed leadership that CA. has been experiencing for years?
If it was just this GM/Toyota plant that would be one thing. Businesses like people can't get out of Ca. quick enough! When I was in southern Ca. in 09 I saw whole shopping centers empty! Here its a few stores or perhaps an anchor store.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

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#160916
Apr 4, 2013
 

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Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Government isn't doing much of anything for any race, in the jobs department.
But that's ok, because 'creating jobs' isn't the government's job.
Their job is to create the conditions for employment. Obama gets and 'F' in my estimation. Remember the doom and gloom scenarios he railed about his first 3 years in office at least? Now the uncertainty of Obamacare.

IBM in this area announced another layoff. Their headed for greener pastures (well maybe browner pastures). Guadalajara Mexico. They employed as many as 8000 here and are now down to less then 3000 before this layoff.

Actually in this area recently the amount of companies packing up and heading for Mexico, or just plain ole closing their doors, or laying folks off is just as rampant as back in 2008.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

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#160917
Apr 4, 2013
 
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Tell me why then after WWII, and the resulting baby boom homes were built like crazy for people to "buy", small, affordable homes to accomodate the influx of people, but in order to accomodate the influx of black people to the North housing additions were built for cheap rent, by themselves, near the city,& not in the suburbs.
I'm not sure what you're asking me here. Are you talking about public housing here?

Blacks who migrated North or West into cities between the 20s and the 50s went primarily into the segregated sections of those cities. Integration did occur in some places, but in as many or more the presence of a black family or two was enough to spur flight, either to other areas of the city or into the rapidly growing burbs.

So ... I'm not familiar with the kinds of housing you're describing, and I don't know how widespread that practice was.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

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#160918
Apr 4, 2013
 
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Not Obama but from what I've read since it was the only union plant Toyota had workers in that did play a part. In fact Toyota said that it may have kept it open but Gm made the first move. You would have to be blind not to see how Obama like most dems in leadership are owned by the unions.
From 09 what I found"
G.M. discontinued the Pontiac Vibe, a small crossover vehicle built at Nummi, last week. In June, G.M. said its half of the Nummi venture would not be part of the reorganized company, forcing Toyota to determine the plantís future. Mr. Gettelfinger did not mention G.M.ís decision in his statement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/28/business/28...
GM had filed for bankruptcy, Toyota was overstocked due to the recession. The only way to cut their losses was to close the plant. Union or no union, the plant would have closed due to lack of demand. It was a very basic business decision.
lisw

Wilmington, OH

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#160919
Apr 4, 2013
 

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WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not sure what you're asking me here. Are you talking about public housing here?
Blacks who migrated North or West into cities between the 20s and the 50s went primarily into the segregated sections of those cities. Integration did occur in some places, but in as many or more the presence of a black family or two was enough to spur flight, either to other areas of the city or into the rapidly growing burbs.
So ... I'm not familiar with the kinds of housing you're describing, and I don't know how widespread that practice was.
You've got to be kidding me. You aren't aware of the additions built to accomodate black migration to the north during the civil rights era and before. In my hometown it was called Peck's addition. Looked like military housing except it was built where tenements used to be. LBJ made a huge "mission accomplished" type moment of it. Soon it became the tenament housing of the 60's
HipGnosis

Astoria, IL

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#160920
Apr 4, 2013
 

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Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
So was it a lighthearted jab? Like a hard punch to the shoulder kinda jab?
I agree with Lyndi. Like i said some of us no chaser from other threads. Knowing what we know it would be hard to take that as lighthearted. he's been Mocking and taking shots at Xtians for quite some time. I thought and think it was his way trying to shut up another Xtian.
Now hold on thar BabaLooie.

You know, we've seen each other out and about the other threads too over the years....a guy might want to check the window's open before he spits..... jus' sayin'.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

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#160921
Apr 4, 2013
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Now hold on thar BabaLooie.
You know, we've seen each other out and about the other threads too over the years....a guy might want to check the window's open before he spits..... jus' sayin'.
I think I'm on record here and on any other thread, as far as not giving to much of a chit what others believe. I certainly give the John Coffees and Bossdrops of the topix world a hard time, but I dont give christians a hard time for being christian.

And thats all I'm saying. Chaser does. He had an intent with that post and it certainly wasnt to be lighthearted. JMO.....

I for the most part ignore all the religious talk on this thread. Very rarely get into it. And I sure as heck dont go chasing down christians looking for battles.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

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#160922
Apr 4, 2013
 
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
GM had filed for bankruptcy, Toyota was overstocked due to the recession. The only way to cut their losses was to close the plant. Union or no union, the plant would have closed due to lack of demand. It was a very basic business decision.
No. They built the Corolla in that plant. Even though Toyota did feel the recession like everyone else it has been one of the best selling cars in the nation for years. If not for the union they would still be building it today in Ca. Now it comes out of Canada Japan or Blue Springs, Mississippi.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

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#160923
Apr 4, 2013
 

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lisw wrote:
<quoted text>You've got to be kidding me. You aren't aware of the additions built to accomodate black migration to the north during the civil rights era and before. In my hometown it was called Peck's addition. Looked like military housing except it was built where tenements used to be. LBJ made a huge "mission accomplished" type moment of it. Soon it became the tenament housing of the 60's
And the money wasted that has done little to nothing with what LBJ hoped to do. Here in Clearwater there was a public housing project that went up in the 80s. Fast forward 20 plus years and its been cleared off because crime was out of sight. It was also quite close to state road 60 that brings the tourism traffic from Tampa Intl. They are now building a new hospital on part of that land.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

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#160924
Apr 4, 2013
 
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>You've got to be kidding me. You aren't aware of the additions built to accomodate black migration to the north during the civil rights era and before. In my hometown it was called Peck's addition. Looked like military housing except it was built where tenements used to be. LBJ made a huge "mission accomplished" type moment of it. Soon it became the tenament housing of the 60's
No, lisw, I'm not kidding you.

It wasn't clear to me you were talking about public housing, especially because of your focus on black migration and putting them outside the core areas of a city.

There is a relationship between black migration and the increase in public housing, but it's not a direct cause and effect one. Black migration squeezed more and more people into already deteriorated housing stock (200,000+ substandard dwellings in Chicago, many with no indoor plumbing or with shared plumbing in the 40s, for example).

So, simultaneous with black migration you had slum clearance or urban renewal or whatever you want to call it. In a lot of rust belt cities from St. Louis on east, a lot of those dwellings were wooden four story walk up tenements built as early as the 1870s, with little to no maintenance done for decades.

Public housing was intended to provide inexpensive housing for the poorest of the poor, with the market picking up the rest of the slack. Some incredibly boneheaded mistakes were made in designing, building, and managing them.

One of the most notorious ones was Pruitt-Igoe built in the 50s on the grounds of some of the worst slums in St. Louis. The first buildings were occupied in 54, and it was all torn down by the mid-70s.

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