Bush is a hero

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#160894 Apr 4, 2013
Ok you can have the last word, I'm done with it after this. I just wanna say this, Catcher said he was being lighthearted.

You said nothing lighthearted about it. It seems to me, you agree with me he was trying to stir the pot. He's either lying or were wrong.

Whether or not you wanna call me a a monkey or not, I'm gonna respond to the guys posts, because of our history........
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#160895 Apr 4, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>No, I don't think he was lying.
I think a whole bunch of people got real stupid over a lame post.
.......and as the self appointed forum referee with chronic control issues has spoken.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#160896 Apr 4, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
Ok you can have the last word, I'm done with it after this. I just wanna say this, Catcher said he was being lighthearted.
You said nothing lighthearted about it. It seems to me, you agree with me he was trying to stir the pot. He's either lying or were wrong.
Whether or not you wanna call me a a monkey or not, I'm gonna respond to the guys posts, because of our history........
Okay, I misunderstood you.

I did think Catcher's post was lighthearted from the moment he made it. My own jab at the people who overreacted to it was not particularly lighthearted.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#160897 Apr 4, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Scream!
Yell!
Hoop!
Holler!
<Insert Snarky Snide Pithy Remark Here>
;-)
Was the screamyellhoopholler stuff supposed to be me or you?

For that matter, you're also really adept at snarkysnidepithy remarks.

Have a lemon bar?
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#160898 Apr 4, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Shortened for a reply. This is part of the problem. The viciousness with which black and female conservatives are attacked. male white conservatives are not treated that way by the liberal establishment. What is the threat? And if we are wanting to eradicate racism, why wouldn't we want the differences between one black person and another to shine. Like you say Ben Carson is the ultimate success story and so is his mother.
Liberals are scared of Ben Carson and those like him. His success flat out debunks liberalism. Of course liberalism debunks itself when you look at it without all the party hats and balloons. With all the liberal policies passed through the years, with all the entitlements and gazillion democrat inspired taxpayer programs which the African American has been handed, that community is still in the toilet.
What that tells my liberal friends here I wouldn't know except they think more of the same is good idea.
It tells me the liberal agenda is seriously flawed, it always was and it always will be.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#160899 Apr 4, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks. I guess if you want to get it down to a nutshell you'd say you were in the middle of racism and I was not and so I mistakenly thought it didn't really exist as much anymore after civil rights. But Willie that's when I started looking at it, I mean really looking at it and that is exactly the same time I became so horribly disillusioned with the democratic party. I thought they were heroes and found out they were not.
You think I haven't looked at the same things you have?

If you want to talk about political parties, fine, but if you want one to be the good guys and another to be the bad guys you're going to be disappointed in me.

For starters, there were heroes and villains in both the Democratic and Republican Parties during the civil rights era (although heroes and politicians are species that seldom intermingle).

Some people (both for and against) voted their conscience; others voted based on the polling numbers; most probably did both. That applies to all of 'em, from the most junior members of the House of Representatives all the way up through the President of the United States.

The civil rights era finished a major realignment of the parties, both in demographics and in stands on issues, that had begun in the North as early as the 1920s. There was a load of compromisin' on the road to the horizons (where we're at today) on the part of BOTH parties, and again - there's a couple of villains, a whole lot of cold calculators, and an occasional hero in BOTH parties.

Starting in the 60s the national Democratic Party adopted the rhetoric of the civil rights movement. They are still addicted to that rhetoric today, sometimes to the point of fighting battles that have already been won.

Starting in the 60s the national Republican Party made a concerted effort to go after the folks left behind by the Democratic Party's switch on the issue. It started with Strom Thurmond in (62?), and picked up steam when Nixon won the Presidency and went after the Wallace vote.

The "New Conservatism" of William F. Buckley, Barry Goldwater, and Ronald Reagan comes into play here too (two of whom later apologized for opposing the Civil Rights laws of the 60s; the third opened his first post-convention Presidential campaign in Neshoba County, Mississippi of "Mississippi Burning" fame). They opposed civil rights legislation as an encroachment of Federal power, and joined forces with the Southern Democrats in their opposition.

So ... the way I see it, you've basically got BOTH parties addicted to the rhetoric of the past, fighting battles that have already been won or lost, both of them routinely making cold calculating decisions based what they think will grant them the prize.

You're looking for good guys and bad guys? Don't look for politicians.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#160900 Apr 4, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Was the screamyellhoopholler stuff supposed to be me or you?
For that matter, you're also really adept at snarkysnidepithy remarks.
Have a lemon bar?
Yeah, I know. I can be snarkysnidepithy.

Hang around a barber shop long enough you're bound to get a haircut.

It could be either on of us, actually. I'd say it was a lighthearted post, but I don't want to give the monkeys a tune to dance to for the next week.

;-}

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#160901 Apr 4, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
.......and as the self appointed forum referee with chronic control issues has spoken.
I'd say I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, but I'd be lying.

I find it reassuring.
lisw

Delaware, OH

#160902 Apr 4, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>You think I haven't looked at the same things you have?
If you want to talk about political parties, fine, but if you want one to be the good guys and another to be the bad guys you're going to be disappointed in me.
For starters, there were heroes and villains in both the Democratic and Republican Parties during the civil rights era (although heroes and politicians are species that seldom intermingle).
Some people (both for and against) voted their conscience; others voted based on the polling numbers; most probably did both. That applies to all of 'em, from the most junior members of the House of Representatives all the way up through the President of the United States.
The civil rights era finished a major realignment of the parties, both in demographics and in stands on issues, that had begun in the North as early as the 1920s. There was a load of compromisin' on the road to the horizons (where we're at today) on the part of BOTH parties, and again - there's a couple of villains, a whole lot of cold calculators, and an occasional hero in BOTH parties.
Starting in the 60s the national Democratic Party adopted the rhetoric of the civil rights movement. They are still addicted to that rhetoric today, sometimes to the point of fighting battles that have already been won.
Starting in the 60s the national Republican Party made a concerted effort to go after the folks left behind by the Democratic Party's switch on the issue. It started with Strom Thurmond in (62?), and picked up steam when Nixon won the Presidency and went after the Wallace vote.
The "New Conservatism" of William F. Buckley, Barry Goldwater, and Ronald Reagan comes into play here too (two of whom later apologized for opposing the Civil Rights laws of the 60s; the third opened his first post-convention Presidential campaign in Neshoba County, Mississippi of "Mississippi Burning" fame). They opposed civil rights legislation as an encroachment of Federal power, and joined forces with the Southern Democrats in their opposition.
So ... the way I see it, you've basically got BOTH parties addicted to the rhetoric of the past, fighting battles that have already been won or lost, both of them routinely making cold calculating decisions based what they think will grant them the prize.
You're looking for good guys and bad guys? Don't look for politicians.
I know there were problems on both sides. I know I've said that LBJ's great society to me was a nicely decorated apartheid. Welfare and housing may have solved the problems for a short period but the democratic party looked at it as a long term solution. To me it made the plight of black people worse. Now I fear the message from the democrats is "you can't make it on your own" which is a message "no one" needs to hear. The only ones not listening to that message is women. They have gone on to be better educated and make more many than men in many cases. Other groups , like immigrants and african americans, have believed they need the government.
I also wonder if the integration of the armed forces was different in different branches. my husband was army in '68 and felt that the army really was color blind. But maybe that's because he was white.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater, FL

#160904 Apr 4, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, Joaquin! LA Times is reporting Stockton, California got a federal judge to rule that it's eligible for bankruptcy protection.
Among other screw-ups and oopsie's, they have something like 900 million bucks due to California Public Employees Retirement System to cover pensions.
You libs looooooooooove those big pensions. A bunch of geniuses are running your state into the ground and they need your money!
Send 'em a check, will ya!
A BIG one!
The way people are leaving Ca. it won't be long before they cry for a bailout. I hope the rest of the nation tells them to own it and suck it up. Sad what that state was once and what it is today. I remember seeing a Toyota Corolla some time back and it was made in Fremont, Ca. That plant was closed right after the dear leader came to power.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater, FL

#160905 Apr 4, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>I'd say I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, but I'd be lying.
I find it reassuring.
Here is something I relate to. I feel good knowing we disagree as most of what you post is crap to me.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#160906 Apr 4, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>I know there were problems on both sides. I know I've said that LBJ's great society to me was a nicely decorated apartheid. Welfare and housing may have solved the problems for a short period but the democratic party looked at it as a long term solution. To me it made the plight of black people worse. Now I fear the message from the democrats is "you can't make it on your own" which is a message "no one" needs to hear. The only ones not listening to that message is women. They have gone on to be better educated and make more many than men in many cases. Other groups , like immigrants and african americans, have believed they need the government.
I also wonder if the integration of the armed forces was different in different branches. my husband was army in '68 and felt that the army really was color blind. But maybe that's because he was white.
The military is no more color blind than the society it comes from. The same racial strife that wracked the country echoed through the military in the 60s and into the 70s.

I've known black guys who served in the Army around the time your husband did who swear it was the first time they were ever treated as equals by ANY white man, and I've known others who swear it was no better (and sometimes worse) than society at large. I also know that racial problems were rampant in Vietnam, but from my understanding the worst came after your husband was there.

I was in Naval aviation for my first tour, which in 1974 was barely and very uncomfortably integrated. If I remember right, we had the only black pilot out of six squadrons, each with at least 40 pilots of all ranks.

I'm trying not to overreact to your description of the Great Society programs as apartheid.

I mean, think about what you're saying here. These well intentioned (but poorly crafted and ultimately failed) programs were passed when discrimination in housing, education, jobs, voting, and opportunity in general were rampant and pervasive throughout American society north south east west - yet you choose to describe THEM as apartheid?

That's a bit of a reach he said with studied understatement, even if you accept the erroneous assumption that blacks were the only or even the principal intended beneficiaries of the Great Society programs.

I'm familiar with the argument you're making; I've heard it going back to Reagan, and before him both Nixon and Wallace in 68 and 72. Both of them, btw, opposed every last piece of legislation designed to overturn the REAL American apartheid known as Jim Crow.

There is a grain/elements of truth to the argument you're making, but nowhere near enough to support your (apparent) conclusion that the Democrats want to keep blacks in bondage or poverty or what-ever.
lisw

Delaware, OH

#160907 Apr 4, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>The military is no more color blind than the society it comes from. The same racial strife that wracked the country echoed through the military in the 60s and into the 70s.
I've known black guys who served in the Army around the time your husband did who swear it was the first time they were ever treated as equals by ANY white man, and I've known others who swear it was no better (and sometimes worse) than society at large. I also know that racial problems were rampant in Vietnam, but from my understanding the worst came after your husband was there.
I was in Naval aviation for my first tour, which in 1974 was barely and very uncomfortably integrated. If I remember right, we had the only black pilot out of six squadrons, each with at least 40 pilots of all ranks.
I'm trying not to overreact to your description of the Great Society programs as apartheid.
I mean, think about what you're saying here. These well intentioned (but poorly crafted and ultimately failed) programs were passed when discrimination in housing, education, jobs, voting, and opportunity in general were rampant and pervasive throughout American society north south east west - yet you choose to describe THEM as apartheid?
That's a bit of a reach he said with studied understatement, even if you accept the erroneous assumption that blacks were the only or even the principal intended beneficiaries of the Great Society programs.
I'm familiar with the argument you're making; I've heard it going back to Reagan, and before him both Nixon and Wallace in 68 and 72. Both of them, btw, opposed every last piece of legislation designed to overturn the REAL American apartheid known as Jim Crow.
There is a grain/elements of truth to the argument you're making, but nowhere near enough to support your (apparent) conclusion that the Democrats want to keep blacks in bondage or poverty or what-ever.
Tell me why then after WWII, and the resulting baby boom homes were built like crazy for people to "buy", small, affordable homes to accomodate the influx of people, but in order to accomodate the influx of black people to the North housing additions were built for cheap rent, by themselves, near the city,& not in the suburbs.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater, FL

#160908 Apr 4, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
Regarding racism in retrospect and fast forward to the present, Democrats once again have it a$$ backwards. They spent the first century of this country's existence refusing to treat black people like human beings, the second century refusing to treat them like adults and now in the early years of the third century they have devised a fake war on blacks by republicans not unlike their fake war on women. Nothing is quite as funny as watching a democrat put on battle gear for a battle which doesn't exist-- against enemies who are not there.
After fighting the Civil War to continue enslaving black people and then subjecting newly freed black Americans to Jim Crow laws and Ku Klux Klan violence, Democrats set about frantically rewriting their own ugly history because they need their vote. Simple.
===
One of the primary reasons Ben Carson for example is taking so many hits by the left is because he's a conservative black man who pulled himself out of poverty and did what all people should admire. He made it and he made it big and he did it without the liberal philosophy. That doesn't work well for libs, hence the bashing. When he spoke against Obama policies at the prayer breakfast the libs cackled amongst themselves like crazed chickens that it was an inappropriate forum for such conversation. This American says anytime Obama doesn't have the mike is good time to take him to task considering our Campaigner in Chief rarely shuts up.
No one needs a brain surgeon to know that Democrats need the struggling African American to stay struggling. It makes for "great optics" as Barry would say..... and someone like Ben Carson puts a kink in their playbook. A black guy who grew up in poverty, without a father present, was told to shut off the TV and study and is now one of the most respected pediatric neurosurgeons in the world? And he's a man with conservative principles?
"GET HIM OFF THE STAGE!"
Btw, anyone want to hazard a guess as to the current unemploment percentage of blacks in America today under Obama?
Anyone want to hazard a guess at how many have stayed in poverty and how many more have slipped into poverty under----> Obama?
The numbers were so predictable, it's boring.
I had to look it up. Its around 16-17 %. I'll cite my souce so some loon says I'm not a plagiarist. Of note is Robert Johnson founder of Bet saying the nation wouldn't stand for this if it were whites.

http://newsone.com/1510935/black-unemployment...

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bet-founder-tells-...
Anon

Cleveland, OH

#160909 Apr 4, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
The way people are leaving Ca. it won't be long before they cry for a bailout. I hope the rest of the nation tells them to own it and suck it up. Sad what that state was once and what it is today. I remember seeing a Toyota Corolla some time back and it was made in Fremont, Ca. That plant was closed right after the dear leader came to power.
General Motors pulled out of a joint effort with Toyota which eventually closed the plant. Obama had nothing to do with it.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#160910 Apr 4, 2013
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
General Motors pulled out of a joint effort with Toyota which eventually closed the plant. Obama had nothing to do with it.
Did Obamacare have anything to do with it? An unstable economy? Or was it just the skyrocketing taxes and failed leadership that CA. has been experiencing for years?

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#160911 Apr 4, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is something I relate to. I feel good knowing we disagree as most of what you post is crap to me.
LOL, ya but how do you really feel?

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#160912 Apr 4, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
I had to look it up. Its around 16-17 %. I'll cite my souce so some loon says I'm not a plagiarist. Of note is Robert Johnson founder of Bet saying the nation wouldn't stand for this if it were whites.
http://newsone.com/1510935/black-unemployment...
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bet-founder-tells-...
Government isn't doing much of anything for any race, in the jobs department.

But that's ok, because 'creating jobs' isn't the government's job.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater, FL

#160913 Apr 4, 2013
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
General Motors pulled out of a joint effort with Toyota which eventually closed the plant. Obama had nothing to do with it.
Not Obama but from what I've read since it was the only union plant Toyota had workers in that did play a part. In fact Toyota said that it may have kept it open but Gm made the first move. You would have to be blind not to see how Obama like most dems in leadership are owned by the unions.

From 09 what I found"

G.M. discontinued the Pontiac Vibe, a small crossover vehicle built at Nummi, last week. In June, G.M. said its half of the Nummi venture would not be part of the reorganized company, forcing Toyota to determine the plant’s future. Mr. Gettelfinger did not mention G.M.’s decision in his statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/28/business/28...

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater, FL

#160914 Apr 4, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Government isn't doing much of anything for any race, in the jobs department.
But that's ok, because 'creating jobs' isn't the government's job.
Somebody should let the dear leader know.

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