lisw

Sardinia, OH

#159344 Feb 9, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Not being satisfied with merely refuting a differing opinion, you went right for the personal slur...
Must be the humility...
I never said "I" was humble, and you really said something spiteful. Now tell me how that is a personal slur. Why in the world does the fact that someone relies on God as a co-pilot bring such vitriol. No one is trying to push God on you.
It's the same thing as someone saying "I love my house" It doesn't mean they think you have a crappy house. It just means that's their thoughts. It's one of the things Benjamin Carson said, is that in this atmosphere we currently have too many think they have to be PC. That would include negating God I think. People should not have to do that just because your sensibilities are bruised.
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#159345 Feb 9, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>As predictably annoying as the petulant anti-religion outbursts might be, is it any different from those who constantly throw how "tight with God" they are?
No, lisw, you didn't do that. There was nothing in your comment that warranted a retort from a mature person who doesn't believe in God.
These anti-religious outbursts at the mere mention of God are as predictable as the babbling of clowns who equate disagreeing on politics with serving Satan, or the incessant spamming of WIR and rider.
I say pfffffffft to all of em equally
I'm not sure what you just said.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#159347 Feb 9, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>I never said "I" was humble, and you really said something spiteful. Now tell me how that is a personal slur. Why in the world does the fact that someone relies on God as a co-pilot bring such vitriol. No one is trying to push God on you.
It's the same thing as someone saying "I love my house" It doesn't mean they think you have a crappy house. It just means that's their thoughts. It's one of the things Benjamin Carson said, is that in this atmosphere we currently have too many think they have to be PC. That would include negating God I think. People should not have to do that just because your sensibilities are bruised.
I'm chuckling at the 'bruised sensibilities' it must have taken, to charge me with spite and vitriol...I merely made an observation you disagree with.

In the current political climate, the so-called conservative version of "PC," is frequently translated as "I worship God at least as much as, if not more than, you do, and I'm going to make darn sure everyone knows it."

My opinion being, there's not a great need for more publicly pious politicians. We have enough to last out the century, as it is.
JMO
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#159348 Feb 9, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm chuckling at the 'bruised sensibilities' it must have taken, to charge me with spite and vitriol...I merely made an observation you disagree with.
In the current political climate, the so-called conservative version of "PC," is frequently translated as "I worship God at least as much as, if not more than, you do, and I'm going to make darn sure everyone knows it."
My opinion being, there's not a great need for more publicly pious politicians. We have enough to last out the century, as it is.
JMO
The problem is if I had said "his wife" or his "mentor" or anything else under the sun it would not have brought the same remark. The fact that you see and hear things everytime someone mentions God tells me exactly where you are on this. You think anyone mentioning God is them being pious and saying they are better than you. It's not, but I won't convince you of that and don't really care to try.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#159349 Feb 9, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not sure what you just said.
Why take the bait when it's so obvious?
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#159350 Feb 9, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Why take the bait when it's so obvious?
Well, I never got dirty jokes and I'm just as slow on the 360 degree opinions.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#159351 Feb 9, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>The problem is if I had said "his wife" or his "mentor" or anything else under the sun it would not have brought the same remark. The fact that you see and hear things every time someone mentions God tells me exactly where you are on this. You think anyone mentioning God is them being pious and saying they are better than you. It's not, but I won't convince you of that and don't really care to try.
So why are you trying? And who are you to tell me what I think? Constantly 'mentioning God' in political discourse, is far too prevalent - that's what I think.

The fact is, you didn't say 'his wife' or 'his mentor', did you? No, you held this guy up as a paragon of virtue, because he's publicly crediting 'God' for his own hard work, and the development of his own native talents. Whatever works for him - but it sounds a lot like "You didn't build that," to me.

The Divine is a part of all of us...not just of those who consider their religiosity a virtue. When was the last time you heard that from a politician?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#159352 Feb 9, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>So why are you trying? And who are you to tell me what I think? Constantly 'mentioning God' in political discourse, is far too prevalent - that's what I think.
The fact is, you didn't say 'his wife' or 'his mentor', did you? No, you held this guy up as a paragon of virtue, because he's publicly crediting 'God' for his own hard work, and the development of his own native talents. Whatever works for him - but it sounds a lot like "You didn't build that," to me.

The Divine is a part of all of us...not just of those who consider their religiosity a virtue. When was the last time you heard that from a politician?
Kat, I have to tell you this--they're right. You ARE touchy where the subject of God comes up.

Lis didn't hold up Dr. Carson as "a paragon of virtue," she held him up as a person to be admired, a hero for today.(And knowing something of Dr. Carson's background, I think he'd be the first to say he's no saint). What on earth is wrong with saying "Here, HERE is the kind of guy Americans should admire, an excellent role model for today's kids"?

Last--and this is the reason I stopped to write this before I start cooking dinner--apparently Dr. Carson at some point in his life became a Christian. That's something I didn't know about him until now. But this most Christians, including the one typing this post, do know: we can do nothing, NOTHING good without the Holy Spirit leading us, inspiring us, working through and in us. There are lots of verses in the Bible that speak to that point, including this famous one from Paul:

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through He who gives me strength.

In recent years, I've received many compliments, including some from the regulars here, on various things I've done or said. I've thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated them (my ego likes a bit of stroking every now and then just as much as anyone else's does!), but PART of that appreciation is because if anyone can say such things to me THEN I MUST BE PROGRESSING AS GOD'S CHILD.

When anyone tells me how wonderful I am in any way, it's certainly good to hear that :) But as I tell them, ANY positive qualities I have ARE FROM THE LORD, NOT FROM MYSELF. Without Him, they would not exist, for nice as I may appear to others to be, I know all too well how very imperfect, how downright awful I can be. And I suspect Dr. Carson knows the same about himself. When he or Jim Tebow or whoever credits the Lord for their success, they're not displaying their "religiosity." They're just giving credit where credit is due.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#159353 Feb 9, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Well, I never got dirty jokes and I'm just as slow on the 360 degree opinions.
No, lisw, why do you take the bait offered by SKL?

She has compulsion to lash out at even the most inconsequential mention of God. That's obvious, because she doesn't distinguish between the mere mention of faith and the folks who justify political opinions by claiming the mantel of God.

Why feed that?
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#159354 Feb 9, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>No, lisw, why do you take the bait offered by SKL?
She has compulsion to lash out at even the most inconsequential mention of God. That's obvious, because she doesn't distinguish between the mere mention of faith and the folks who justify political opinions by claiming the mantel of God.
Why feed that?
Okay and I could ignore but opted to try to explain. SKL is not exactly a troll, and so it seems okay to try to communicate, but once is probably enough.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#159355 Feb 9, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
Last--and this is the reason I stopped to write this before I start cooking dinner--apparently Dr. Carson at some point in his life became a Christian. That's something I didn't know about him until now. But this most Christians, including the one typing this post, do know:

we can do nothing, NOTHING good without the Holy Spirit

leading us, inspiring us, working through and in us. There are lots of verses in the Bible that speak to that point, including this famous one from Paul:
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through He who gives me strength.
This is an interesting concept.

How do we account for any good done by one who is not Christian? Do we credit that to the HG as well, or do we not credit it at all?

This speaks to the question we were discussing earlier. Well, actually that discussion kinda meandered around between "truth" and "moral base", depending on who was writing. Anyway, if I hear you right, Xtians attribute the good they're able to do to the HG working through them. In other words, their faith compels them to consult their beliefs for a moral baseline. But what did they do before professing faith? Not all believers made the big leap from wastrel to saved that sound so inspiring from the pulpit - the vast majority just pick it up along the way of an otherwise average life. The average person is little different in the Before- and After-Saved pictures. If they were a kind and considerate person before, they continue to do so, but now giving glory to God. If they were a cranky misanthrope before, they tend to be the same after, except now they attribute their crankiness to a lack of patience for the "rebellious against God".

What do we say of those who manage to do good and act properly without a faith initiative?
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#159356 Feb 9, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>This is an interesting concept.
How do we account for any good done by one who is not Christian? Do we credit that to the HG as well, or do we not credit it at all?
This speaks to the question we were discussing earlier. Well, actually that discussion kinda meandered around between "truth" and "moral base", depending on who was writing. Anyway, if I hear you right, Xtians attribute the good they're able to do to the HG working through them. In other words, their faith compels them to consult their beliefs for a moral baseline. But what did they do before professing faith? Not all believers made the big leap from wastrel to saved that sound so inspiring from the pulpit - the vast majority just pick it up along the way of an otherwise average life. The average person is little different in the Before- and After-Saved pictures. If they were a kind and considerate person before, they continue to do so, but now giving glory to God. If they were a cranky misanthrope before, they tend to be the same after, except now they attribute their crankiness to a lack of patience for the "rebellious against God".
What do we say of those who manage to do good and act properly without a faith initiative?
Flip Wilson used to say "the devil made me do it" and we all laughed. Now someone quite seriously says God has a hand in his/her life and many are aghast like they committed a crime. Whatever any of us do, if it's good and especially if it saves lives, why does it matter to anyone else where the blessing came from. Let him give credit where he thinks credit is due. And let Roberta do that too. If you said you are everything that you are because of your mother I'd be a real B to say "no you're not."

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#159357 Feb 9, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Flip Wilson used to say "the devil made me do it" and we all laughed. Now someone quite seriously says God has a hand in his/her life and many are aghast like they committed a crime. Whatever any of us do, if it's good and especially if it saves lives, why does it matter to anyone else where the blessing came from. Let him give credit where he thinks credit is due. And let Roberta do that too. If you said you are everything that you are because of your mother I'd be a real B to say "no you're not."
You do realize that all Hip did is ask Roberta a question that will allow her to expound on her previous post, right?
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#159358 Feb 9, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>You do realize that all Hip did is ask Roberta a question that will allow her to expound on her previous post, right?
Sure. Doesn't mean I can't express my thoughts. Or does it???
:)

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#159359 Feb 9, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>This is an interesting concept.
How do we account for any good done by one who is not Christian? Do we credit that to the HG as well, or do we not credit it at all?

This speaks to the question we were discussing earlier. Well, actually that discussion kinda meandered around between "truth" and "moral base", depending on who was writing. Anyway, if I hear you right, Xtians attribute the good they're able to do to the HG working through them. In other words, their faith compels them to consult their beliefs for a moral baseline. But what did they do before professing faith? Not all believers made the big leap from wastrel to saved that sound so inspiring from the pulpit - the vast majority just pick it up along the way of an otherwise average life. The average person is little different in the Before- and After-Saved pictures. If they were a kind and considerate person before, they continue to do so, but now giving glory to God. If they were a cranky misanthrope before, they tend to be the same after, except now they attribute their crankiness to a lack of patience for the "rebellious against God".

What do we say of those who manage to do good and act properly without a faith initiative?
Nothing personal, Hip, but I'm in no mood to compose any kind of reply tonight.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#159360 Feb 9, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Flip Wilson used to say "the devil made me do it" and we all laughed. Now someone quite seriously says God has a hand in his/her life and many are aghast like they committed a crime. Whatever any of us do, if it's good and especially if it saves lives, why does it matter to anyone else where the blessing came from. Let him give credit where he thinks credit is due. And let Roberta do that too. If you said you are everything that you are because of your mother I'd be a real B to say "no you're not."
I think sometimes we're so vested in arguing we assume every post is a prelude to argument. It was just a philosophical question as an extension of a previous conversation Roberta and I had. If she has the same reaction as you, I'm gonna guess I either wrote it poorly, or had the bad luck to come into the room at the wrong time.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#159361 Feb 9, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>This is an interesting concept.
How do we account for any good done by one who is not Christian? Do we credit that to the HG as well, or do we not credit it at all?
This speaks to the question we were discussing earlier. Well, actually that discussion kinda meandered around between "truth" and "moral base", depending on who was writing. Anyway, if I hear you right, Xtians attribute the good they're able to do to the HG working through them. In other words, their faith compels them to consult their beliefs for a moral baseline. But what did they do before professing faith? Not all believers made the big leap from wastrel to saved that sound so inspiring from the pulpit - the vast majority just pick it up along the way of an otherwise average life. The average person is little different in the Before- and After-Saved pictures. If they were a kind and considerate person before, they continue to do so, but now giving glory to God. If they were a cranky misanthrope before, they tend to be the same after, except now they attribute their crankiness to a lack of patience for the "rebellious against God".
What do we say of those who manage to do good and act properly without a faith initiative?
I realize you're not trying to prevent Roberta from giving credit where credit is due, but I'm not sure there's an answer to your question beyond the obvious one.

What you would say about those who manage to do good and act properly without a faith is that they are nice people.

I mean, what is else is there to say about them, Hip? There's absolutely NOTHING that says you can't be a nice person or do good things (or have good things happen to you) without faith.

Now ... as a matter of belief, a person of faith might think that a person without faith doesn't know when God is working through them or blessing them, in much the same way the person with NO faith believes that there's nothing but chance or fate or luck involved.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#159362 Feb 9, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Sure. Doesn't mean I can't express my thoughts. Or does it???
:)
No, it doesn't mean you can't express your thoughts - but I don't quite understand why you thought Hip was in any way denying Roberta the opportunity to give credit where she believes it is due.
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#159363 Feb 9, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>I think sometimes we're so vested in arguing we assume every post is a prelude to argument. It was just a philosophical question as an extension of a previous conversation Roberta and I had. If she has the same reaction as you, I'm gonna guess I either wrote it poorly, or had the bad luck to come into the room at the wrong time.
Oh Hip, if I were looking for an argument I'd be talking about that abomination, the Affordable Care Act. But I'm not and didn't think I was argumentative. I didn't recall your previous conversation with Roberta and I knew you weren't talking to me, your post and previous ones just spurred some thoughts. Just think of it as thinking out loud.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#159364 Feb 9, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing personal, Hip, but I'm in no mood to compose any kind of reply tonight.
No worries. Bad time, I guess. Best to you and yours....

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