Bush is a hero

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#158914 Feb 3, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh well I had in mind a US courtroom where the bible is/was traditionally used.
If Ellison had no objection, why not cover your tail feathers by
using BOTH?
Don't see a need to cover any tail feathers, bob.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158915 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>It's the oath, not the book they take it on.
This 'unifying object' you speak of is an artificial device.
No matter what it is, it is one of the foundation stones that were used in the formation of this nation. It could be the Magna Carta but it wasn't. It for sure wasn't the Koran or the bhagavad gita.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158916 Feb 3, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Well said, as usual.
Didn't they attempt to codify those principles you refer to in the Constitution? Is that not our "unifying document"? Sure, in discussion and debate, all manner of underlying philosophies and precedents came into play - Hume, Locke, Voltaire, the Roman system, English Common Law, the Iroquois Confederacy, and most definitely certain precepts from the Bible - all are cited at one time or another to underscore the speaker's view.
But they were reference points for discussion, not appendices to the final result. The US Constitution stands alone as it's own authority. This is exactly why they struggled so long and passionately in that locked room that hot Philadelphia summer in 1787, to get each word and punctuation just so. They were very much aware of the legacy they were crafting for posterity. Well, most of them, at least - there was certainly parochialism in play as well, some of which also made their way into the document. These led to some of it's most glaring flaws.
Thus "right and wrong" as regards the society they intended to establish is ultimately determined by that Constitution. It seems that what you're describing tries to balance on a tight-wire between free exercise of conscience, and tacit imposition of belief. The Constitution explicitly stays out of that debate, all literary references aside. Perhaps many did not envision the melting pot we became, tho' I can't imagine they couldn't have considered it.
Maybe you're right, that a society might function more smoothly with a set of principles that go beyond the body of Law, at least for those that subscribe to those extended principles (not so much for those that don't). But what you're describing is at odds with the melting pot concept. We can attempt to impose religious principles through peer pressure, but we can't appeal to the Constitution for authority. Perhaps a society without those extended unifying principles is fatally flawed at conception. It was considered a Grand Experiment from the beginning, and is ongoing. Maybe the experiment at a society governed only by secular Law was doomed from the beginning.
I don't think I said what you are saying. I did not say that they need to come here and adopt Christianity. What I am saying is that those Western/Judeo Christian principles are already in place and are what formed this nation. Those should not be set aside by or even placed on equal footing with all other religions. We already are what we are. People of other faiths are welcome to practice their religions in their communities with freedom. That is guaranteed in the first amendment. I think the founders knew full well that we would be a melting pot. I think it was intended, that is, if the Grand Experiment worked.
Where else would you get the idea that all men are created equal, endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights? Maybe they didn't think it through to apply it to the Black man or Native Americans but that eventually made it's way through the national mindset, albeit almost too late.
The founders took the best principles from the Bible and applied it as well as the other documents and schools of thought which you mentioned. They did not take it from a world religions course at the nearest university and did not seem to find the need to be politically pleasing to the entire world. They just wanted to give people a fighting chance to make something for themselves and their families. They felt that creating unity out of diversity was the best way. Of all the Western countries we seem to have the best chance of doing that.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#158917 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>You really need me to explain why I think it's ludicrous to assert that Ellison's swearing in on the Koran will 'embolden Muslim extremists'?
That Ellison's swearing in on the Koran 'will be doing more damage to the unity of America and to the value system that has formed this country than the terrorists of 9-11' is absurd?
That it's nonsense to suggest that by taking the oath of office on something other than the Bible, American civilization is 'undermined'?
I didn't see Ellison insisting his culture trumped anything - all I saw was someone taking an oath on the book they hold as holy. That's all.
Far from being an affront to, it's an AFFIRMATION of American civilization and religious freedom, pure and simple.
You may not like my choice of words, but I don't think you can legitimately characterize them as 'poor'. The exaggerations and distortions in Prager's essay warrant terms like nonsense, absurd, and ludicrous, at least in my opinion. I'm not sure I'd use different terms if I were writing formally for publication someplace.
I didn't see Ellison insisting his culture trumped anything either, and I must wholeheartedly agree that freedom of religion is supposed to be freedom religion in general, rather than freedom of the the 'prevailing' religion in particular. One of the loudest voices in Congress in favor of tax-funded vouchers for religious schools, has recently come out against Muslims using them to provide their children the religious education of their choice, as 'an abomination'.

Some folks want it both ways.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158918 Feb 3, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Adressing this seperately.
I know this has been advanced, most notably by alleged "historian" David Barton. He even claimed they were quote "verbatim", but his citations are about as vague as a fortune cookie. Please shed light where Barton fails. Where are the Biblical references in the Constitution?
I don't think I said that there were. What does Barton say? Principles yes, verbatim quotes, none that I can think of. I was thinking more in terms of references made by the Founders in their writings and musings.
Funny thing, we stand on that "Wall of separation between Church and State" but that came from a letter it also is not found in the Constitution. But, the Supreme Court used it to show intent.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#158919 Feb 3, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
What book you take an oath on is as a member of Congress is not about religious freedom. It is about agreeing to a unifying object. Atheists, Mormons, Evangelicals, Buddhists, Catholics, Jews, JWs, take an oath on book that bespeaks the unity of one people. It has nothing to do with who's religion they are sponsoring.
I don't consider the Bible to be a unifying object in any way, and if elected as a member of Congress, asked to swear an Oath to protect and defend the Constitution, I would need to swear on The Constitution itself, instead....just sayin'.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158920 Feb 3, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Adressing this seperately.
I know this has been advanced, most notably by alleged "historian" David Barton. He even claimed they were quote "verbatim", but his citations are about as vague as a fortune cookie. Please shed light where Barton fails. Where are the Biblical references in the Constitution?
I went back and read what I wrote, I will have to blame my poor writing for implying that there are Biblical references in the Constitution.
uidiotRaceamakeW orldPeace

United States

#158921 Feb 3, 2013
socci wrote:
Islam Will Conquer Italy and the Entire West
CAIRO, EGYPT – The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) has released excerpts from a transcript of a televised sermon by Egyptian cleric Salem Abu Al-Futuh. Airing on Al-Nas TV on August 18, Al-Futuh's predicted that Islam would conquer the entire West, starting with Italy and ending with the Americas.
www.worthynews.com/9243-islam-will-conquer-it...
<quoted text>
And, those our Americans on right wing side are so paranoid 's and it's not the fault opf Middle Easterners , not Asians -Chinese..., not latin Americans... not Mexicans etc, it is our US faults for ruining their nations by bashing them, bombing them, killing them, plundering and ruining their infrastructure... and we all as Americans are so stupid , dumbed down, brainwashed by our Us Faux mwdia coporatist/govt to hate , so to support our US illicit overseas wars, no wonder we get rollback of enemies and this had created US police state and ruined our civil liberties, our corrupted US leaders are once that creating all this big mess worldwide because kowtowing to greed and Power AND THIS is morally and financially BAnkrupting US. Have we not learn from the fall of Great Empires , our own demise if do learn... paradoxically ironic! laugh or cry? u all know me BWHHAHAHAHHAAA It very reason our AMericans are so apathetic... Stay stupid, Go back to sleep lwet our corrupted and greedy US leaders ruined US and the world with the US war machines, our own demise as Americans because we all don't heed history lessons. Go back to sleep you our dumbed down zombies...
uidiotRaceamakeW orldPeace

United States

#158922 Feb 3, 2013
socci wrote:
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
"Palestine" -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-al-Salaam'-- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only “Word”, such as in:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/33Rlg/Islm/Sl...
why our racist American Right wing nuts so paranoid and fearful of commies , Islam, Arabs, Asians, Chinese, Muslims, Latinos, and any all boogey mens... so many fear and hate.
uidiotRaceamakeW orldPeace

United States

#158923 Feb 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
What unifies us as a nation is the U.S. Constitution.
All oaths of office should be taken on the Constitution.
I'm surprised it hasn't been suggested. Or perhaps it has?
But those our corrupted for Power and Greedy US ruling Elites in Govt for decades had stepped on the Social Contract and ruined the US and World in which we all live in with war machines... So?
uidiotRaceamakeW orldPeace

United States

#158924 Feb 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lyndi,
Your attack-dog attempts to disparage my character with repeated ad hominem posts have become very tiresome. Also tiresome is your faux patriotism, as you wrap yourself around the flag in an attempt to diminish the value of my views. Nor does pedigree mean anything to me, we are each responsible for how we live our lives. I'm happy do discuss issues with you, or anybody else, but I feel no need to defend myself from your sarcastic, personal jabs. Sometimes they are cute, but for the most part they are misanthropic and nasty, and not worthy of a response. So rant away if it makes you feel good, but I'm not going to dignify anything that is personally disrespectful.
Who one , the Author in Historical context Said ,"As religion and/or PAtriotism (Faux, a facade) is last refuge of Scoundrels?
uidiotRaceamakeW orldPeace

United States

#158925 Feb 3, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh well in that case, how nice it would've been for you to be hangin' around in here when GW Bush was being ripped apart pretty much daily, by liberal "attack dogs" and posters abroad, irate with his foreign policy.
Or maybe you could've helped dispell concusions that Bush was a mental midget because of his many public misspeaks.
We could've used your sensible detente over the years to help calm the fears of those lashing out and encouraging radical behavior such as the maniac throwing his shoes at Bush's head.
And lets not forget your potential roll in reversing the call by many in the US and around the world to have BushCo tried and executed for war crimes. Ay alas & alack it was not to be.
Not a liberal! Then why did International War crimes Tribumnal tried Bushjr and co for war crimes against humanity?

The George W. Bush Doctrine on U.S. foreign Policy:
(1) The U.S. claims the right to preemptive use of military power, including nuclear weapons;
(2) The U.S. will not be bound by international treaties or agreements if these are deemed by the government to interfere with our national self-interest;
(3) The U.S. will actively work to prevent the emergence of any strategic rival on the world scene;
(4) The U.S. will use military policy and power to advance the interests of U.S. capitalism around the world."

So, War mongering right wing peon?
rider

Gwinn, MI

#158926 Feb 3, 2013
2010 9 11 MISSING LINKS BUS

“Brevity is the soule of wit”

Since: May 09

USA

#158927 Feb 3, 2013
idiot wrote:
<quoted text>But those our corrupted for Power and uined the US and World in which we all live in with war machines... So?
I particularly enjoyed it a few years ago when US Navy SEALS took out your three three brothers, the Somali pirates. Did make you afraid to raid the shipping lanes off the coast of your homeland, Somalia, little freak?
uidiotRaceamakeW orldPeace

United States

#158928 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Tell me, Chris, do you think it's reasonable to say that a Muslim swearing into Congress on the Koran 'will be doing more damage to the unity of America and to the value system that has formed this country than the terrorists of 9-11', that by doing so American civilization is 'undermined', or that it will 'embolden Muslim extremists'?
You can attribute this to my so-called agenda if you want to, Chris, but I do have something and I'm willing to debate it.
The 911 commission report is big joke, as even good Congressmen and those white hat and good ones in authority questions it to this day... Another US false Flag Ops, SO?
uidiotRaceamakeW orldPeace

United States

#158929 Feb 3, 2013
An NFL Fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I particularly enjoyed it a few years ago when US Navy SEALS took out your three three brothers, the Somali pirates. Did make you afraid to raid the shipping lanes off the coast of your homeland, Somalia, little freak?
Not a Somalian Private but Anti-War American! And you our US warmongers/war-for-profiteers/ Soldier-of-fortunes... just like Bush & co been tried By the International War Crimes Tribunal, you next; sooner of later.
Klink

Lawson, MO

#158930 Feb 3, 2013

Sharia Law 101
www.youtube.com/watch...

Radical Islam
www.youtube.com/watch...

“Brevity is the soule of wit”

Since: May 09

USA

#158932 Feb 3, 2013
idiot wrote:
<quoted text>i am a Somalian Private but Anti-War American! And you our US warmongers/war-for-profiteers/ Soldier-of-fortunes... jr.
Why lie about being American, Somalian? It seems you WANT to be an American.

Will you be coming to my door to arrest me, Somalian pirate?
uidiotRaceamakeW orldPeace

United States

#158933 Feb 3, 2013
An NFL Fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why lie about being American, Somalian? It seems you WANT to be an American.
Will you be coming to my door to arrest me, Somalian pirate?
look Our US war monger, stop manipulating my post, Like i said I'm an Anti-War American. The international War crimes Tribunal had tried our Bushjr & co for war crimes against humanity, sooner or later you be next.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#158934 Feb 3, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>What would be really freaky, is if anybody actually READ that stuff.
I developed a great affinity for the scroll button, after the first sentence of the first post.
I think it's World Idiot.
Rest assured it isn't. The World Idiot has different ways of being stupid. I think it's rider, just using a different nick.

Please note: I do NOT mean Rider on the Storm, a.k.a. Larry, who lives in Minnesota. I mean the other one. He's posted long swathes of cut&pasted like this before, although this particular batch is a particularly long one.

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