Bush is a hero
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#158875 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>The length you'll go to discredit Catcher's right to his opinions (or to express his opinions) as a method of avoiding anything of substance tells me that we both know he wouldn't need me to 'intercept' your comments, even if I were inclined to try.
I'm sorry you don't like having the basis of your so called questions challenged, Lyndi, but you know the drill ... public message board, yada yada yada.
What you were engaged in is yet another ad hominem. Oh, you dressed it up real pretty, with military service and country-as-family and even dragged out the Emancipation Proclamation for crying out loud, but all that's just filler.
I don't think it's bad manners or audacious for someone to disagree with me about politics. I don't care whether they've just left their naturalization ceremony or they can trace their roots back to the Mayflower. I'd like to think I can handle their ARGUMENTS rather than inventing some phony reason to discredit their right to offer an opinion.
The simple fact of the matter is, Lyndi, those credentials you're talking about are an illusion - a buncha crap.
Catcher may be too polite to tell you that, but I'm not.
Oh silly, Willie. You're trying to sell me an extension of the same thing ole ding dong in chief tried to sell half the country which was:
"THEY DIDN'T BUILD THAT!" And it turns out half the country believed the guy!

You dope. That was just a load of feel-good hooey to get the non-achievers to the polls and give the libs some pretend ammo!
We most certainly DID build THIS!

(laughing..........

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158876 Feb 3, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>You're playing semantics. Of course, "We all are judgmental and intolerant." There's a major difference between being judgmental and intolerant of abhorrent/antisocial behavior and bigotry, and being abhorrent, antisocial, and bigoted because of intolerance and judgmentalism.
When someone presents their view with clarity, does not bash another's religion but simply sets forth the view that he sees America as based on certain values that he sees as being undermined by certain disregard, should not bring about the vehemence that was aimed at Prager. His views were not anti social nor abhorrent. They are a legitimate opinion. Does Willie have a right to his opinion, yes absolutely, is it rational. I don't think so. He refuses to meet the argument on its grounds and rushes in to name calling. It's knee jerk at its basest level.
The same for the so called lawyer. I would think that someone who makes his living in a courtroom using words and facts as his tools of the trade would have done a better job than just name calling.
Give a reasoned argument or look like one who is afraid of those who think differently. What do you call those people? The word escapes me.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#158877 Feb 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand that Lyndi is unhappy and upset. The political and societal winds are blowing the wrong way for her. But she needs to find a better way to deal with that, than to go after people personally because they disagree with her views.
Oh well in that case, how nice it would've been for you to be hangin' around in here when GW Bush was being ripped apart pretty much daily, by liberal "attack dogs" and posters abroad, irate with his foreign policy.

Or maybe you could've helped dispell concusions that Bush was a mental midget because of his many public misspeaks.

We could've used your sensible detente over the years to help calm the fears of those lashing out and encouraging radical behavior such as the maniac throwing his shoes at Bush's head.

And lets not forget your potential roll in reversing the call by many in the US and around the world to have BushCo tried and executed for war crimes. Ay alas & alack it was not to be.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158878 Feb 3, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>There may well be an absolute philosophical truth out there, but in application it's all subjective. I can't dictate to you what it is, how it manifests, and how best to actualize it, and make you accept it just on my say-so, nor can you me, much less someone of a completely different heritage and cultural background. Documents and pronouncements both secular and spiritual in nature have been produced over the millennium each alleging to be inspired, yet until the GREAT IS chooses to write it indelibly in each person's heart at inception, they will never be accepted universally from one fallible human to another. Even among those of ostensibly like-minded groups, disagreement about the simplest phrases is more the norm than the exception.
Thus we're left to impose each our own conception by force, or kill each other, or work it out together for the greatest good at the given time. I'm not sure there's an example in history otherwise. Likewise I've yet to see an absolute truth, dictating right vs wrong, that isn't subject to disclaimers, claims of special "discernment", and interpretation, and applied subjectively according to persons, time, and locale.
I think that >>all being equal<<, mankind is essentially good but fundamentally selfish, which really isn't a knock, since self-interest is a survival instinct. It's the inequities we incorporate into our various social structures that lead to the inhumanity you speak of.
That's what I think, subjectively speaking......;) But then you've heard it before, and I yours, because we've tread this very ground more than once. It's been fun, mostly.
Where I was trying to go with Willie and with Catcher regarding the questions of worldview and absolute or relative truth.

My belief:
When you have various ethnic groups and cultures rubbing elbows together in one country under one government you have got to have something that unifies them. The whole E Pluribus Unum thing. If everyone is allowed to bring their own culture to the foreground their own religion on equal terms with those that developed the system of governance that we enjoy, then you have serious rifts in that fabric. The intent is not to say Christianity or Judaism is superior to what others are bringing to the national table. The intent is to unify a diverse people. And yes, to unify a diverse people means that they/we must put our own imported culture and religion to the lesser of what is already in place.
I am not going to become a citizen of become a citizen of a country that I harshly disagreed with religiously. I expect that if I moved to another country, say Rome, I would not demand they recognize my culture or my faith on equal footing as the Italian Catholic culture that is already in place.
I don't think that all the Founders were necessarily religious men or Christian but I think the principle was to unify under as common an area of agreement as possible without going into divisive issues. That is why there are obvious general references to the Creator deity without naming Jesus Christ. There is no establishing a religion but several biblical references. It was meant as common ground to unify diversity. Jews were here, Christians were here, secularists were here, and something was needed to unify.
Do I totally agree with the viewpoints of all the Founders or the founding documents. In the main, yes. Do I agree with all specifics. No.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#158879 Feb 3, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh silly, Willie. You're trying to sell me an extension of the same thing ole ding dong in chief tried to sell half the country which was:
"THEY DIDN'T BUILD THAT!" And it turns out half the country believed the guy!
You dope. That was just a load of feel-good hooey to get the non-achievers to the polls and give the libs some pretend ammo!
We most certainly DID build THIS!
(laughing..........
Nice use of a talking point - it's just clever enough to make the willing believe it's in any way a response to anything I said.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158880 Feb 3, 2013
Should have proofread more carefully. Rome is not a country. I should have said Italy.
lisw

Sardinia, OH

#158881 Feb 3, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh well in that case, how nice it would've been for you to be hangin' around in here when GW Bush was being ripped apart pretty much daily, by liberal "attack dogs" and posters abroad, irate with his foreign policy.
Or maybe you could've helped dispell concusions that Bush was a mental midget because of his many public misspeaks.
We could've used your sensible detente over the years to help calm the fears of those lashing out and encouraging radical behavior such as the maniac throwing his shoes at Bush's head.
And lets not forget your potential roll in reversing the call by many in the US and around the world to have BushCo tried and executed for war crimes. Ay alas & alack it was not to be.
yep, role reversal is a very therapeutic tool.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#158882 Feb 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I could see what Lyndl was doing; I'm familiar with her "tactics." But although I did initially hesitate to subject myself to her interrogation, in the end I decided to indulge her. Her questions, I was willing to answer. Her follow-up attacks are unworthy of a response.
I understand that Lyndi is unhappy and upset. The political and societal winds are blowing the wrong way for her. But she needs to find a better way to deal with that, than to go after people personally because they disagree with her views.
I love the behind the back right in her face gossipy thing you do, Catcher. It's you getting in touch with your girly side, isn't it?
Good job!
==

For someone who loves the friendly people and the beautiful beaches and nice weather of CA you sure seem to spend alot of time indoors evaluating people on Topix. What are you up to now...15-20-25 hours a week on these threads? Yikes!

But don't you worry about me finding other things to do. I am heading out again on Thursday and politics will not be on my mind..... until I get back.

Save me a seat at the bar.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#158883 Feb 3, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh well in that case, how nice it would've been for you to be hangin' around in here when GW Bush was being ripped apart pretty much daily, by liberal "attack dogs" and posters abroad, irate with his foreign policy.
Or maybe you could've helped dispell concusions that Bush was a mental midget because of his many public misspeaks.
We could've used your sensible detente over the years to help calm the fears of those lashing out and encouraging radical behavior such as the maniac throwing his shoes at Bush's head.
And lets not forget your potential roll in reversing the call by many in the US and around the world to have BushCo tried and executed for war crimes. Ay alas & alack it was not to be.
Bravo!

Wild foot stomping applause !
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#158884 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Nice use of a talking point - it's just clever enough to make the willing believe it's in any way a response to anything I said.
"You didn't build that" is precisely the same thing you just said Willie......only YOU called the belief that we did build this nation, "a myth and an illusion." And if that were a fact, there would be no need for history books, bubba-loo!
Try again.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#158885 Feb 3, 2013
Pernrider wrote:
<quoted text>
When someone presents their view with clarity, does not bash another's religion but simply sets forth the view that he sees America as based on certain values that he sees as being undermined by certain disregard, should not bring about the vehemence that was aimed at Prager. His views were not anti social nor abhorrent. They are a legitimate opinion. Does Willie have a right to his opinion, yes absolutely, is it rational. I don't think so. He refuses to meet the argument on its grounds and rushes in to name calling. It's knee jerk at its basest level.
The same for the so called lawyer. I would think that someone who makes his living in a courtroom using words and facts as his tools of the trade would have done a better job than just name calling.
Give a reasoned argument or look like one who is afraid of those who think differently. What do you call those people? The word escapes me.
I was more than willing to meet the argument on its grounds, Pern. I tried in post #158618.

You zipped right past my attempt to meet the arguments on its grounds in your haste to portray me as intolerant.

I identified at least three sections of Prager's essay I found wanting. I guess the problem was that I used terms you didn't like but that I felt appropriate (nonsense, absurd, ludicrous).

I used those terms because I felt the exaggerations and distortions in Prager's essay meet the criteria. There's no way a Muslim swearing into Congress on the Koran is a greater threat to American civilization than 9/11, just to use one example.

I also think that the lack of intemperate language doesn't disguise the fact that the essay was nothing more than an attack on Ellison's religion. That's the only reason for those exaggerations and distortions.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#158886 Feb 3, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
"You didn't build that" is precisely the same thing you just said Willie......only YOU called the belief that we did build this nation, "a myth and an illusion." And if that were a fact, there would be no need for history books, bubba-loo!
Try again.
Lyndi, you're down in desperation territory now (whining about how often somebody else posts), so I'm guessing you're off your game a little.
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#158887 Feb 3, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no issue with your crediantials to get on the bitch wagon about America and half it's population. You've earned it. Your pedigree gives you that privilege. I take issue with relative newbies who haven't lifted a finger to form this nation, have no servicemen or women in their history who helped create, protect and defend this nation yet somehow think it's a good idea to become a citzen and slam half the country because they've lived here a short while.
My issue is with Catcher and those like him who think America is beaches, friendly people and nice weather and how thrilled he is that he has a platform to vocalize how he can't stand the party who crafted the emancipation proclamation. Like alot of other libs he has it a$$ backwards. Democrats keep the poor, poor and the downtrodden, downtrodden and Obama is enlarging that group in leaps and bounds. Congratulations Mr. President!
Maybe you like the new guy on the block coming into your home slamming half your family, telling you the best way to rear your family and calling you an oppressor. I don't. I think it's audacious and shows bad manners.
Btw, Willy you have a need to try and take control of comments posed here particularly those aimed at liberals. You may want to look into that. Catcher is a big boy. He's an attorney. He probably doesn't need you to intercept my comments and rush in with that little rubber bayonet of yours.
So I noted to libs both not in agreement with this and the short version is there is no substance in your post. Ha! Its filled with it just doesn't tell them what they want to hear. In the imcome bracket wife and I are in we should be big Obama supporters. We aren't much above the poverty threshold. Too bad for him we really do have some skin in the game and long tuned out the crap that about half the nation seems to rally around. Good day! And it is. Talk about some nice weather here! Won't fix my hernia but am thankful to enjoy this day. Take care everyone.
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#158888 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>I was more than willing to meet the argument on its grounds, Pern. I tried in post #158618.
You zipped right past my attempt to meet the arguments on its grounds in your haste to portray me as intolerant.
I identified at least three sections of Prager's essay I found wanting. I guess the problem was that I used terms you didn't like but that I felt appropriate (nonsense, absurd, ludicrous).
I used those terms because I felt the exaggerations and distortions in Prager's essay meet the criteria. There's no way a Muslim swearing into Congress on the Koran is a greater threat to American civilization than 9/11, just to use one example.
I also think that the lack of intemperate language doesn't disguise the fact that the essay was nothing more than an attack on Ellison's religion. That's the only reason for those exaggerations and distortions.
Nothing but crap and absurd nonsense here. While I've posted I don't know Prager well and do know him enough to know thats not in the man. But when you have an agenda and can't stand what the man says go for the gusto. Hes a bigot can't stand Muslims yada yada yada. You have nothing Willie.

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158889 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>I was more than willing to meet the argument on its grounds, Pern. I tried in post #158618.
You zipped right past my attempt to meet the arguments on its grounds in your haste to portray me as intolerant.
I identified at least three sections of Prager's essay I found wanting. I guess the problem was that I used terms you didn't like but that I felt appropriate (nonsense, absurd, ludicrous).
I used those terms because I felt the exaggerations and distortions in Prager's essay meet the criteria. There's no way a Muslim swearing into Congress on the Koran is a greater threat to American civilization than 9/11, just to use one example.
I also think that the lack of intemperate language doesn't disguise the fact that the essay was nothing more than an attack on Ellison's religion. That's the only reason for those exaggerations and distortions.
I didn't zip past. Your word choices were poor. You presented no argument as to why you disagreed and still haven't. Present your rebuttal. Otherwise your just blustering. Why is it not a bad thing when someone insists their culture trumps the one established as unifying.

“2016 No Clinton No Bush!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#158890 Feb 3, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing but crap and absurd nonsense here. While I've posted I don't know Prager well and do know him enough to know thats not in the man. But when you have an agenda and can't stand what the man says go for the gusto. Hes a bigot can't stand Muslims yada yada yada. You have nothing Willie.
Tell me, Chris, do you think it's reasonable to say that a Muslim swearing into Congress on the Koran 'will be doing more damage to the unity of America and to the value system that has formed this country than the terrorists of 9-11', that by doing so American civilization is 'undermined', or that it will 'embolden Muslim extremists'?

You can attribute this to my so-called agenda if you want to, Chris, but I do have something and I'm willing to debate it.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#158891 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Lyndi, you're down in desperation territory now (whining about how often somebody else posts), so I'm guessing you're off your game a little.
My game is rarely off and you need a dictonary.
"Desperation" and "whining" are mildly insulting words you falsely chose to use because I made an observation you would have preferred I hadn't made outloud.

If you want to duct tape me you'll have to do better than that, Willie!

“On a sailing ship to nowhere”

Since: Jun 07

Colorado

#158892 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Tell me, Chris, do you think it's reasonable to say that a Muslim swearing into Congress on the Koran 'will be doing more damage to the unity of America and to the value system that has formed this country than the terrorists of 9-11', that by doing so American civilization is 'undermined', or that it will 'embolden Muslim extremists'?
You can attribute this to my so-called agenda if you want to, Chris, but I do have something and I'm willing to debate it.
The key word is unity. Was America's unity damaged one whit by 9-11? I say a resounding "NO". Our unity was strengthened for a moment in time. But, was Ellis' Koran a part of undermining the fundamental unity in regards to what holds our nation as one people, YES! See the rest of my argument in my reply to HipG.
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#158893 Feb 3, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Tell me, Chris, do you think it's reasonable to say that a Muslim swearing into Congress on the Koran 'will be doing more damage to the unity of America and to the value system that has formed this country than the terrorists of 9-11', that by doing so American civilization is 'undermined', or that it will 'embolden Muslim extremists'?
You can attribute this to my so-called agenda if you want to, Chris, but I do have something and I'm willing to debate it.
Short answer yes. And I have worked with Muslims that are peaceful and love this nation. No doubt in other parts of the world they would be murded in a New York min. by other Muslims. I have the same answer for anyone that thinks its a good idea to be under Sharia law.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#158894 Feb 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lyndi,
Your attack-dog attempts to disparage my character with repeated ad hominem posts have become very tiresome. Also tiresome is your faux patriotism, as you wrap yourself around the flag in an attempt to diminish the value of my views. Nor does pedigree mean anything to me, we are each responsible for how we live our lives. I'm happy do discuss issues with you, or anybody else, but I feel no need to defend myself from your sarcastic, personal jabs. Sometimes they are cute, but for the most part they are misanthropic and nasty, and not worthy of a response. So rant away if it makes you feel good, but I'm not going to dignify anything that is personally disrespectful.
You never discuss issues, Catcher. You have "optimism." You feel a "tailwind." It's a "tough roe to hoe."


I have brought up a rise in poverty, unemployment, 43+ million on food stamps, mainstream media and that monumental disgrace, the deficit, the lies about terrorism winding down, the lies about Romney perpetrated by the democrat party with none other than Harry the Marsupial Reid leading the charge. What about my comments regarding the labor unions and Obamacare? Anything from you? NO. You didn't know the first thing about Rubio's immigration reform plan. I have never heard you utter a word about Benghazi or the heat rising regarding Iran and Israel. Are you knowledgable about No. Korea or the new and whacked out government in Egypt? Care to elaborate on the slaughter in Syria? Comments about the buffoon Chuck Hagel and his nauseatingly clueless performance last week?

You don't KNOW the issues. Get informed and bring them to the table and until then show some respect for people who know more than you do and maybe you'll get some in return.

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