Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#157919 Jan 15, 2013
bad bob wrote:
Where's the OUTRAGE from the MSM? Apparently the NY Times broke the original story but along with the rest of the MSM, has not said much if anything since.
Brought up again yesterday, from last week by Fox, Al Gore chose to sell his Current TV Network to al Jazeera instead of Glen Beck,(for half a billion $$$), because they "shared similar values".
Meanwhile al Jazeera throws an on-air party for Samir Kunta after his release from an Israeli prison. Kuntar killed an Israeli family and then took their 4-year old little girl to the beach, where he bashed her head against the rocks until she was dead.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/al-j...
Does ANYone doubt what the national headlines would have looked like, had it been Mitt Romney who sold to al Jazeera, instead of Gore? Oh the hypocracy!
I have much outrage. Just as the fake war on woman that helped carry O to another 4 years and little to nothing when real woman are raped and killed. Hell in this very forum I brought up cbs Laura Logan and at least one on the left said I didn't care, just using it to attack Obama.
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#157920 Jan 15, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>I don't think the government is going after the 2nd Amendment, period.
Wake up. This joke of a news conf. of Obama Wed around 11:45 a.m. is years in the making.
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#157921 Jan 15, 2013
"I'm against having a king," he said Tuesday in an interview in Jerusalem with the Christian Broadcasting Network. "I think having a monarch is what we fought the American Revolution over and someone who wants to bypass the Constitution, bypass Congress - that's someone who wants to act like a king or a monarch."


Rand Paul
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#157922 Jan 15, 2013
bad bob wrote:
Where's the OUTRAGE from the MSM? Apparently the NY Times broke the original story but along with the rest of the MSM, has not said much if anything since.
Brought up again yesterday, from last week by Fox, Al Gore chose to sell his Current TV Network to al Jazeera instead of Glen Beck,(for half a billion $$$), because they "shared similar values".
Meanwhile al Jazeera throws an on-air party for Samir Kunta after his release from an Israeli prison. Kuntar killed an Israeli family and then took their 4-year old little girl to the beach, where he bashed her head against the rocks until she was dead.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/al-j...
Does ANYone doubt what the national headlines would have looked like, had it been Mitt Romney who sold to al Jazeera, instead of Gore? Oh the hypocracy!
Btw, good job. Some flake is bothered by pointing this out becasue its not pc. Reminds me of a caller years ago on the Beck show where a man claimed Islam was peaceful than said he would kill Beck. Priceless.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#157923 Jan 15, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Btw, good job. Some flake is bothered by pointing this out becasue its not pc. Reminds me of a caller years ago on the Beck show where a man claimed Islam was peaceful than said he would kill Beck. Priceless.
You guys....

“Does Everybody Hate Hugo?”

Since: Jan 13

Brooklyn, OH

#157924 Jan 15, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya should'a stuck around.
Hey Bob! Glad to see you're still around. How you been?
lisw

Wilmington, OH

#157925 Jan 15, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>The inhumanity of conditions in mental health facilities was one reason we got away from that - saving money is another, and there was a universal failure across (nearly) all 50 states in following up with resources to replace the closed facilities.
I think it should have been clear to anyone twenty, maybe thirty, friggin' years ago that we've gone too far in protecting the rights of the mentally ill at the expense of society and the mentally ill themselves.
There's a certain sick deja vu here ... mental health facilities came about to get the mentally ill OUT of the jails, but that's (and homeless shelters) where we're dumping them now.
Perhaps if it had been brought up in this thread in reasonable language rather than terminology reminiscent of the T4 program, we could have had a discussion in here.
You're wrong the biggest reason we got away from that is that medications were developed that allowed people to live in their communities. And it was very successful. Counties and towns had as much investment as states, and contibuted a great deal of the funds, either from private contributors or property taxes to match state funds of medicaid. A large percentage of people who for life had been put in mental institutions were mainstreamed to nursing homes and group homes because they were too institutionalized.
It seems to me that though you are not fully informed you stop the conversation with a belief that noone knows anything. That is patently unfair.
Did some fall through the cracks? Sure, but believe me when I say that it is much better to serve your time in a prison if you commit a crime than in a state forensic hospital. Those who go to hospitals by reason of insanity rarely ever get out.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#157926 Jan 15, 2013
PeterinCleveland wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Bob! Glad to see you're still around. How you been?
"bad" as always, thanks. Hang up yer coat, & I'll go get ya somethin' to drink.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#157927 Jan 15, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>You're wrong the biggest reason we got away from that is that medications were developed that allowed people to live in their communities. And it was very successful. Counties and towns had as much investment as states, and contibuted a great deal of the funds, either from private contributors or property taxes to match state funds of medicaid. A large percentage of people who for life had been put in mental institutions were mainstreamed to nursing homes and group homes because they were too institutionalized.
Did some fall through the cracks? Sure, but believe me when I say that it is much better to serve your time in a prison if you commit a crime than in a state forensic hospital. Those who go to hospitals by reason of insanity rarely ever get out.
You know and I know that professional opinion in your and the other mental health professions runs the gambit between your opinion and mine, lisw.

You're right in including the improvements in medications in the context of how we got from 'there' to 'here', but that doesn't negate the impact of civil liberties and budgetary consideration that ended the massive institutionalization policies prevalent up through the 60s/70s.

Those policies SHOULD have ended. They were wrong, and I'm not advocating a return to them. What I am saying is that there are one hell of a lot more people falling through the cracks than you seem willing to acknowledge - and we need to try and fill in those cracks.
lisw

Wilmington, OH

#157928 Jan 15, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>You know and I know that professional opinion in your and the other mental health professions runs the gambit between your opinion and mine, lisw.
You're right in including the improvements in medications in the context of how we got from 'there' to 'here', but that doesn't negate the impact of civil liberties and budgetary consideration that ended the massive institutionalization policies prevalent up through the 60s/70s.
Those policies SHOULD have ended. They were wrong, and I'm not advocating a return to them. What I am saying is that there are one hell of a lot more people falling through the cracks than you seem willing to acknowledge - and we need to try and fill in those cracks.
And of course you do know that past institutionalization included people who had seizures, uncooperative teens, epileptics and all other kinds of things that had nothing to do with mental illness. This most recent response to a terrible event is to me very much like those times when we locked away anything we didn't understand or like. Kathryn has just such a response.
If you have any evidence that "a lot" fell through the cracks why don't you present it.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#157929 Jan 15, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>And of course you do know that past institutionalization included people who had seizures, uncooperative teens, epileptics and all other kinds of things that had nothing to do with mental illness. This most recent response to a terrible event is to me very much like those times when we locked away anything we didn't understand or like. Kathryn has just such a response.
If you have any evidence that "a lot" fell through the cracks why don't you present it.
Are you kidding me?

I've told you at least twice that I have no interest in going back to the bad old days and you're throwing seizures and epileptics, uncooperative teens, and all the other kinds of things at me?

If you have a problem with SKL's response, take it up with her. In case you didn't notice, I did.
rider

Gwinn, MI

#157930 Jan 15, 2013
Family of Secrets By Russ Baker Bloomsbury Press; 577 pages
When George H.W. Bush was at Andover, his roommate was the nephew of a man with the curious name of George de Mohrenschildt; in later years, Bush and De Mohrenschildt fraternized in Dallas. In 1962, De Mohrenschildt also befriended a troubled young man named Lee Harvey Oswald. It's just one of dozens of connections that the prodigiously industrious investigative journalist Russ Baker has drawn between President No. 41 and the assassination of President No. 35. He also connects the dots between the Bushes and Watergate, which he farfetchedly describes not as a ham-handed act of political espionage but as a carefully orchestrated farce designed to take down President Richard Nixon. It's common knowledge that the Bushes sit at the intersection of America's business and intelligence communities, but Baker takes it further: he sees them as part of a "globally reaching, fundamentally amoral, financial-intelligence-resourc e apparatus that has never before been properly documented."
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9...
lisw

Wilmington, OH

#157931 Jan 15, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Are you kidding me?
I've told you at least twice that I have no interest in going back to the bad old days and you're throwing seizures and epileptics, uncooperative teens, and all the other kinds of things at me?
If you have a problem with SKL's response, take it up with her. In case you didn't notice, I did.
Seems to me it is YOU who does not want a conversation but you complain you can't have one because everyone is not as rational as you. I was not asking you to comment on Kathryn, I was using that as an example of overreaction.(Shrug)No one can say I didn't try.

“Mean People Suck”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#157934 Jan 15, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Seems to me it is YOU who does not want a conversation but you complain you can't have one because everyone is not as rational as you. I was not asking you to comment on Kathryn, I was using that as an example of overreaction.(Shrug)No one can say I didn't try.
All I've been saying throughout this conversation is that there are flaws/gaps in the mental health system that need to be fixed.

You keep reacting to me as if I was the one calling for the need to 'cull', at least when you're not accusing me of believing myself the only rational person or ignoring the repeated times I've said I don't want to go back to the bad old days.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#157936 Jan 15, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
I dont think locking up the 'crazies' is the answer. They got away from that for a reason. Mostly because it was inhumane.
I see Katy Lust is calling herself a liberal now. Hmmmm wheres the compassion Kate? Its all part and parcel for the liberal crowd you know. Get with the program..........
Where have I called myself a liberal?

Was it when I said that mental illness should preclude one's family from leaving the guns around when one lives with them?

Or when I said the mom knew what she was protecting?

Or maybe when I said personal responsibility for gun control would be more effective than governmental attempts at same?

Nah - it was when I said 'cull the crazies'.

Yeah - that was it.
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#157938 Jan 16, 2013
An Oregon sheriff has sent a letter to Vice President Joe Biden saying his department will not enforce any new gun laws it considers unconstitutional.

Linn County Sheriff Tim Mueller, in his letter dated Monday, said politicians are "attempting to exploit the deaths of innocent victims" by supporting laws that would harm law-abiding Americans. The sheriff said he took an oath to support the Constitution, and laws preventing citizens from owning certain semi-automatic firearms and ammunition magazines would violate their rights.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/15/or...

Too bad Obama doesn't give a damn about the Constitution. I would bet in his speech this morning he will say something like, let me be clear, I support the 2nd amnd. Ha.

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#157939 Jan 16, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
An Oregon sheriff has sent a letter to Vice President Joe Biden saying his department will not enforce any new gun laws it considers unconstitutional.
Linn County Sheriff Tim Mueller, in his letter dated Monday, said politicians are "attempting to exploit the deaths of innocent victims" by supporting laws that would harm law-abiding Americans. The sheriff said he took an oath to support the Constitution, and laws preventing citizens from owning certain semi-automatic firearms and ammunition magazines would violate their rights.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/15/or...
Too bad Obama doesn't give a damn about the Constitution. I would bet in his speech this morning he will say something like, let me be clear, I support the 2nd amnd. Ha.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: [1] nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Isaiah 2:3-4
Chris Clearwater

Clearwater, FL

#157940 Jan 16, 2013
LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text>3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: [1] nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Isaiah 2:3-4
Yes, truth. With everything that is in me Lawest I think if one word could sum up Christ it is forgiveness. Another word that comes to mind is freedom. How so many like this Christian pastor in Iran can be bound and yet free in Jesus! I think that Israel and the USA are the best earthly examples of freedom we have and will stand up stand up for Jesus till I go home!

“Jesus is coming soon”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#157941 Jan 16, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, truth. With everything that is in me Lawest I think if one word could sum up Christ it is forgiveness. Another word that comes to mind is freedom. How so many like this Christian pastor in Iran can be bound and yet free in Jesus! I think that Israel and the USA are the best earthly examples of freedom we have and will stand up stand up for Jesus till I go home!
Good afternoon Chris. Standing up for what is right, pure and true is NEVER EVER wrong, but as Christians our Lord has a prescribed way of our going about it and that is not the way of war for his choosen.
rider

Gwinn, MI

#157942 Jan 16, 2013
In 1966 he left the army to work "directly for the U.S, Government". Friends of Michael Hand have suggested that he was employed on undercover missions for the Central Intelligence Agency in Vietnam and Laos. One reported that he "helped train the mountain people - Montagnards - and worked closely with the Air America crews that supplied them". According to Jonathan Kwitny Hand worked under William Colby during the Vietnam War.

Michael Hand moved to Australia in September, 1967. At first Hand went to work selling development lots along the Australian coast. The company, Ocean Shores Development, was run by lawyer Fred Miller, a senior executive for the shipping empire owned by Sir Peter Abeles, the longtime business partner, Rupert Murdoch. One of the largest investors in this scheme was the singer Pat Boone. The registered directors included Boone of Beverly Hills, California and Patricia Swan of Sydney, Australia. Swan was Frank Nugan's secretary.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhandM ...

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