There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#231991 Feb 26, 2014
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>I agree Grunt,that baby has a heartbeat,it's own DNA and depends on it's mother for the next 9 months to grow.
A woman who would end this precious baby's life in the womb is the lowest of the lows.
Our born children depend on us too. Too bad you weren't emotionally there for your children.I can only wonder at the damage your emotional tantrums had on them.
LightForce

Rockford, MI

#231992 Feb 27, 2014
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
All your opinion. Like an anal orfice, everyone has one and they all stink.
Nothing changes my opinion. The rights of a sentient human being supercede those of a fetus that cannot possibly survive outside her uterus.
That it is a human being makes no difference. The pregnant woman is a human and she is of more value than the contents of her uterus.
Path to Evil:

#1 - Deindividuation
#2 - Anonymity
#3 - Dehumanization
#4 - Social Modeling
#5 - Moral Disengagement
#6 – Emergent Norms
#7 – Power Differentials
#8 – Passivity of Good

Your argument utilizes all eight steps.
LightForce

Rockford, MI

#231993 Feb 27, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
But you are not being logical. If you were, you would be agreeing with me. One does not need to be able to prove the time of the soul's entry into the corporeal shell to see that IF such a thing as a "soul" exists, then it makes absolutely no sense to think that it enters when the likelihood of survival to live birth is so small.
And without the distinction of the soul, then the disposal of a small wad of goo is even less of a problem. Remember: ALL pregnancies carry some degree of risk for the woman, not to mention the fact that a nontrivial percentage of children are born with various handicaps, some of them quite severe. As the father of a special needs child, I know that it is NOT something that every person is capable of dealing with.
Indeed, going back to that postulated soul, it could logically be said that forcing a severely handicapped fetus to carry to term, the soul is trapped in a body that denies it the fullest potential for development. That is unbelievably cruel.
Your comparison of pre and post birth survival rates is relative. What about the times when infant mortality rates were/are very high – do you think the soul in this case waited until the child got a little older to join the body? I don't think so. What I do think is that some people in those cases(past and present) may have used the same excuse that you are using here to justify abortion, to justify infanticide. If you look closely at the varying stages of development, it is apparent that conception is the most distinct point of demarcation, but in your model it would be questionable whether or not the soul would even want to enter the body of any“defective” person at all, if it had the choice.

Of course, most of us don't want anybody to suffer, but your definition of severely handicapped might be different from the person's that you are considering killing. We all suffer at some time in our lives, but we usually don't think that killing ourselves is the better alternative. Usually only when it involves killing somebody else – in this case the prenatal child, does killing become an acceptable alternative for some.

Additionally, why would we even try to change our behavior if we could just mask the evidence of it? Answer -“Cause and effect”. Why does anybody suffer from cancer, so many birth defects, etc.? Maybe it's a sign that something else is wrong. Can we continue to kill the earth and not expect ourselves to die with it? If you don't want a child to cry, then don't steal their piggy bank. But no, instead we want everything fast, easy, and without any responsibilities.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#231994 Feb 27, 2014
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Path to Evil:
#1 - Deindividuation
#2 - Anonymity
#3 - Dehumanization
#4 - Social Modeling
#5 - Moral Disengagement
#6 – Emergent Norms
#7 – Power Differentials
#8 – Passivity of Good
Your argument utilizes all eight steps.
So does yours. Difference being she is talking about a wad of goo, and you apply it to living breathing women.
Mind your own business. Not YOUR body? Not YOUR uterus? NONE of YOUR business.
Wads of goo are not people, they have no rights, and a MAJORITY of fertilized eggs won't ever come to term regardless.
It is NOT a BABY, it is NOT a person, it is a WAD OF GOO.
That's the truth, and if you don't like it, too bad.
Don't like abortion? Don't have one. Easy.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#231995 Feb 27, 2014
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Your comparison of pre and post birth survival rates is relative. What about the times when infant mortality rates were/are very high – do you think the soul in this case waited until the child got a little older to join the body? I don't think so. What I do think is that some people in those cases(past and present) may have used the same excuse that you are using here to justify abortion, to justify infanticide. If you look closely at the varying stages of development, it is apparent that conception is the most distinct point of demarcation, but in your model it would be questionable whether or not the soul would even want to enter the body of any“defective” person at all, if it had the choice.
Well, if you look at the Bible as representative of long ago, they did not even name a baby until it was 8 days old. However, I do not believe that the soul waited pasted the time of birth to enter, even if there was a huge risk of dying during the 1st year of live.

No, conception is NOT the most distinct point , not by a long shot. Indeed, that first indrawn breath is the ONLY clearly marked point throughout the entire process. The process of conception takes many hours. In spite of what you may have seen in high school biology videos, it takes a long time for the sperm cell to penetrate the egg, and more time to reach the nucleus, time for the DNAs to split and reform, and time for division to begin.
LightForce wrote:
Of course, most of us don't want anybody to suffer, but your definition of severely handicapped might be different from the person's that you are considering killing. We all suffer at some time in our lives, but we usually don't think that killing ourselves is the better alternative.
Depends on how rational the person is at the time. A rational person would choose to end extreme suffering if there was no other possibility of ending it. However, I was referring more to the parents who would be forced to raise the severely handicapped child. I understand just how difficult that can be, and my son is not severely handicapped, he is actually high functioning.

Just as some people are not able to accept the responsibility of parenthood, some people who might otherwise be good parents just cannot handle the added requirements of raising a child that is severely handicapped.

Of course, even then, I am not advocating the killing of anyone. I merely say that in such cases, abortion MUST be an option for the parents.
LightForce wrote:
Usually only when it involves killing somebody else – in this case the prenatal child, does killing become an acceptable alternative for some.
Additionally, why would we even try to change our behavior if we could just mask the evidence of it? Answer -“Cause and effect”. Why does anybody suffer from cancer, so many birth defects, etc.? Maybe it's a sign that something else is wrong. Can we continue to kill the earth and not expect ourselves to die with it? If you don't want a child to cry, then don't steal their piggy bank. But no, instead we want everything fast, easy, and without any responsibilities.
Ah, now here you say things that I can agree with. We (as a race) have a responsibility to do everything that we can to ensure that this world is in good shape when we hand it over to our children and grandchildren. "No harm unto the seventh generation" was a phrase that I remember seeing somewhere...

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#231996 Feb 27, 2014
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Path to Evil:
#1 - Deindividuation
#2 - Anonymity
#3 - Dehumanization
#4 - Social Modeling
#5 - Moral Disengagement
#6 – Emergent Norms
#7 – Power Differentials
#8 – Passivity of Good
Your argument utilizes all eight steps.
"emergent norms?" Really??? LOL...whatever gets you through the day.
LightForce

Rockford, MI

#231997 Feb 27, 2014
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
"emergent norms?" Really??? LOL...whatever gets you through the day.
If you think that's funny, you should get a good chuckle out of the fact that just because somebody in authority tells then it's OK, millions of women kill their own children.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#231998 Feb 28, 2014
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
If you think that's funny, you should get a good chuckle out of the fact that just because somebody in authority tells then it's OK, millions of women kill their own children.
If you hear of or see someone killing CHILDREN, please call the 911 immediately. That is a horrible thing to do.

However, there are no "children" killed in an abortion. Know the difference.

Forcing women to remain pregnant and to give birth against their will violates their rights as a sentient human being.In that situation, one of the involved, either the rights of the woman or the potential life of the fetus, will be sacrificed. Logic says it's the fetus since it cannot exist outside her uterus.
Life is Precious

South Bend, IN

#231999 Feb 28, 2014
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
If you hear of or see someone killing CHILDREN, please call the 911 immediately. That is a horrible thing to do.
However, there are no "children" killed in an abortion. Know the difference.
Forcing women to remain pregnant and to give birth against their will violates their rights as a sentient human being.In that situation, one of the involved, either the rights of the woman or the potential life of the fetus, will be sacrificed. Logic says it's the fetus since it cannot exist outside her uterus.
Really? You talk about logic? LOLOLOL
You wouldn't know logic if it slapped you in the face. You killed your unborn baby and you know it.
You are trash and the lowest piece of sh*t.
There are children killed in an abortion and just because it's legal doesn't make it right.
They just legalized weed in a state,does that make it right ???
My God you are stupid.
Life is Precious

South Bend, IN

#232000 Feb 28, 2014
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
"emergent norms?" Really??? LOL...whatever gets you through the day.
Gee, when are you going to start being "A Better Me?"
You are a joke and a liar.
Life is Precious

South Bend, IN

#232001 Feb 28, 2014
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Path to Evil:
#1 - Deindividuation
#2 - Anonymity
#3 - Dehumanization
#4 - Social Modeling
#5 - Moral Disengagement
#6 – Emergent Norms
#7 – Power Differentials
#8 – Passivity of Good
Your argument utilizes all eight steps.
Sure does
Left one out habitual liar.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#232002 Feb 28, 2014
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Really? You talk about logic? LOLOLOL
You wouldn't know logic if it slapped you in the face. You killed your unborn baby and you know it.
You are trash and the lowest piece of sh*t.
There are children killed in an abortion and just because it's legal doesn't make it right.
They just legalized weed in a state,does that make it right ???
My God you are stupid.
Logic is knowing that you made the best decision possible in a situation. That is what I did. That you don't like it is completely immaterial. You weren't there.

Our born children depend on us too. Too bad you weren't emotionally there for your children.I can only wonder at the damage your emotional tantrums had on them.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#232003 Feb 28, 2014
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Gee, when are you going to start being "A Better Me?"
You are a joke and a liar.
Nope. Still doesn't work. You keep accusing me of lying, but refuse to say what I lied about. It's all on you.
Life is Precious

South Bend, IN

#232004 Feb 28, 2014
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Logic is knowing that you made the best decision possible in a situation. That is what I did. That you don't like it is completely immaterial. You weren't there.
Our born children depend on us too. Too bad you weren't emotionally there for your children.I can only wonder at the damage your emotional tantrums had on them.
Just keep wondering.
You killed your sons brother/sister.
You also admitted to wanting to commit suicide,HYPOCRITE

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#232005 Feb 28, 2014
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Just keep wondering.
You killed your sons brother/sister.
You also admitted to wanting to commit suicide,HYPOCRITE
Lather, rinse, repeat. Let's see if I can cover all the bases in regard to your lies.

1. I had an abortion at exactly 6 weeks, to the day.
2. My sons agree that I made the right decision for the three of us. It was my child; it was my body therefore it was MY decision.
3. I have never denied that it would have grown into a human being, a boy or a girl, therefore a sister or a brother for my sons. Again, my child, my body, my decision.
4. My statement to you on the phone was "that was as close to suicide as I've ever been." I did not attempt suicide, I did not seriously contemplate it. I did not want it.
5. I knew I couldn't be the mother that child deserved, therefore I made the best decision I could at the time.
6. I adopted my daughter when she was 16, approximately SIXTEEN years AFTER the abortion. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would realize that life changes radically in 16 years, and that a 16 year old requires considerably less time, patience, and care than an infant. OF course, since you lack a modicum of intelligence, you do not understand this.
7. I am 56 years old; my parents have been married for 62 years and have never been married before. Therefore it is impossible for me to have had sex with a stepfather.
8. The only dogs I've ever owned are dachshunds;therefore it is physically impossible for me to have had sex with my dogs.
9. My sons are happy, healthy, productive members of society; they have not been damaged in the least by my decision to have an abortion. On the contrary, they are better off because I did. I did not have the capacity to be an effective single parent to a 3rd child.
10. I am not at work, therefore not "stealing time" from my employer, as if you would ever understand "breaks" and "lunch" at a job.
11. I don't tell anyone to come on here and defend me. I fight my own battles, even with an unarmed idiot like you.
12. I do not now and never have eaten out of guilt over my abortion. I ate for comfort and a sense of safety, after being molested for 8 years. I have long since ceased that behavior and have lost most of the weight I gained over those years.
13. It is physically impossible to eat the amount of food one could buy with what it takes to raise a child for even six months. Again, you lack the intelligence it takes to comprehend that.

I find it amazing that you have the temerity to challenge anyone's parenting skills when you subjected your children to your husband's supposed abuse, and your own multiple suicide attempts/fakes. The damage you inflicted on your children must still haunt them today. Your only concern is for your own emotional emptiness and your needs, rather than those of the you profess to love.

You do not even love yourself, let alone anyone else. If you did, you would never have put them through the emotional roller coaster of fake suicide attempts, botched suicide attempts, abuse, psychological manipulation,and everything else you've lied about on this forum. You are a narcissistic, empty-headed, vacuous old crone who should have succeeded on the first attempt.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#232006 Mar 1, 2014
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
..........Tell us LIPpy, was it "convenient" to try to commit suicide ..........
In many views, suicide is murder. and in many views it is hypocritical of someone who attempted murder, to call others murderers!!

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#232007 Mar 1, 2014
Life s Precious wrote:
<quoted text>I know enough not to kill a child in the womb.
You took the easy way out so as not to take food out of your fat mouth.
Selfish,selfish,selfish.
her life was in danger. the bible states when the life of the mother is in danger that an abortion is not only ok, but the only course to take.

your stupidity astounds me.
Life is Precious

South Bend, IN

#232009 Mar 2, 2014
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Lather, rinse, repeat. Let's see if I can cover all the bases in regard to your lies.
1. I had an abortion at exactly 6 weeks, to the day.
2. My sons agree that I made the right decision for the three of us. It was my child; it was my body therefore it was MY decision.
3. I have never denied that it would have grown into a human being, a boy or a girl, therefore a sister or a brother for my sons. Again, my child, my body, my decision.
4. My statement to you on the phone was "that was as close to suicide as I've ever been." I did not attempt suicide, I did not seriously contemplate it. I did not want it.
5. I knew I couldn't be the mother that child deserved, therefore I made the best decision I could at the time.
6. I adopted my daughter when she was 16, approximately SIXTEEN years AFTER the abortion. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would realize that life changes radically in 16 years, and that a 16 year old requires considerably less time, patience, and care than an infant. OF course, since you lack a modicum of intelligence, you do not understand this.
7. I am 56 years old; my parents have been married for 62 years and have never been married before. Therefore it is impossible for me to have had sex with a stepfather.
8. The only dogs I've ever owned are dachshunds;therefore it is physically impossible for me to have had sex with my dogs.
9. My sons are happy, healthy, productive members of society; they have not been damaged in the least by my decision to have an abortion. On the contrary, they are better off because I did. I did not have the capacity to be an effective single parent to a 3rd child.
10. I am not at work, therefore not "stealing time" from my employer, as if you would ever understand "breaks" and "lunch" at a job.
11. I don't tell anyone to come on here and defend me. I fight my own battles, even with an unarmed idiot like you.
12. I do not now and never have eaten out of guilt over my abortion. I ate for comfort and a sense of safety, after being molested for 8 years. I have long since ceased that behavior and have lost most of the weight I gained over those years.
13. It is physically impossible to eat the amount of food one could buy with what it takes to raise a child for even six months. Again, you lack the intelligence it takes to comprehend that.
I find it amazing that you have the temerity to challenge anyone's parenting skills when you subjected your children to your husband's supposed abuse, and your own multiple suicide attempts/fakes. The damage you inflicted on your children must still haunt them today. Your only concern is for your own emotional emptiness and your needs, rather than those of the you profess to love.
You do not even love yourself, let alone anyone else. If you did, you would never have put them through the emotional roller coaster of fake suicide attempts, botched suicide attempts, abuse, psychological manipulation,and everything else you've lied about on this forum. You are a narcissistic, empty-headed, vacuous old crone who should have succeeded on the first attempt.
And here ladies and gentlemen is the story of her life.And a b*tch at her finest.
You poor victim.LOL
Actually I love myself quite a bit. Never killed a child,and never would.
As much as I dislike you I would NEVER wish your suicide attempt(s) should have been successful.
This just shows who you really are.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#232010 Mar 2, 2014
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>And here ladies and gentlemen is the story of her life.And a b*tch at her finest.
You poor victim.LOL
Actually I love myself quite a bit. Never killed a child,and never would.
As much as I dislike you I would NEVER wish your suicide attempt(s) should have been successful.
This just shows who you really are.
Actually, that's far from the story of my life. There's far more to it. And calling me a victim? That's not only a major life, but pretty funny coming from you, who hit numerous threads on Topix whining about her life, and bluntly being told by a few posters to take it elsewhere.
You DID wish death from cancer on a poster. I'd have to dig back to find the post, I believe it was NW Moon. And you told me you wanted to bury me like a bone in the backyard and defecate on me. That's not wishing death on someone? Hypocrite.
I did not kill a child. You can say that as much as you wish, but it doesn't make it true. I had an abortion at 6 weeks. The embryo was less than 1 inch long and essentially formless. That is not a child.
Now LIPpy, go to church and put on your most pious act. I wonder how many people there know what a vicious, hateful, racist, foul-mouthed harridan you really are.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#232011 Mar 2, 2014
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>And here ladies and gentlemen is the story of her life.And a b*tch at her finest.
You poor victim.LOL
Actually I love myself quite a bit. Never killed a child,and never would.
As much as I dislike you I would NEVER wish your suicide attempt(s) should have been successful.
This just shows who you really are.
once again you are a donkey, braying about long ears on another.

and you claim you are a christian.......... i bet if jesus were real, he would be ashamed of you.

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