There is Everything Wrong with Abortion
Life s Precious

South Bend, IN

#231621 Nov 29, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks angel. I'm glad to have found someone who cares to discuss middle paths between the absolutes of this thread <3
Hopefully the rest joins in. I share the frustration about abortion with "Precious", but fact is that current science leaves women with little choice. It's science that must be enforced. No matter how hard she tries flaming and scaring people from making abortion, it won't help unless there are options available.
I'm glad to have met you, though I reckon we're part of a majority. Well- obviousy, since abortion is a legal procedure.
I'm Swedish, but I enjoy the time spent on this thread. Lots to question, lots to say :) We could stay here :P Make a home, grow some tomatoes and look down at the lake as the sun sets... with Precious locked away the cellar ^^(happy thx giving to both of you btw)
And why would you lock me away in a cellar??? Because I have an opinion??? You are very closed minded .
Women always have a choice in almost anything they do. We all make good and bad choices every day. In my opinion abortion is just an easy way out.
Life s Precious

South Bend, IN

#231622 Nov 29, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Idiot, I didn't brag to my "friends" how I'd judge posts and then lie about it.
Monkey Poo Flinger.
Liar!
Monkey Poo Finger???? Really?
Grow the f*ck up pig.

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231623 Nov 29, 2013
Life s Precious wrote:
<quoted text>I do have heart for these women who have to have a surgical abortion after ectopic or miscarriages,it is sad to me,but I do not have any heart for women who just do this out of convenience and many women have multiple abortions who use this method for nothing more than birth control. I have no heart for these women.
Then you might just as well close this thread, or have Topix do it for you, then start a new one about how "Everything is wrong with CONVENIENT abortion" instead of stepping up and down this latter with rightly pissed off women poking at your feet.

I understand you're poking back though and you've been through more than I have, judging by the rumors on this thread.

It's unfortunate you picked such an absolute head line for this thread- since you're obviously more understanding than that.

"How to phase out abortion" - now wouldn't that be a smooth and inviting head line- serving theists and atheists alike. As for devine intervention vs science- I bet both are yet to prove themselves. Ectopic Pregnancy can be avoided once proper surgery equipment are developed.

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231624 Nov 29, 2013
Life s Precious wrote:
<quoted text>And why would you lock me away in a cellar??? Because I have an opinion??? You are very closed minded .
Women always have a choice in almost anything they do. We all make good and bad choices every day. In my opinion abortion is just an easy way out.
Geographically, it'd be impossible for me to be litteral about locking you down in a cellar. Anyways, it was a metaphore truth be told. You're allright, save for the dogma crowning this touchy thread.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#231625 Nov 29, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
<quoted text>
Geographically, it'd be impossible for me to be litteral about locking you down in a cellar. Anyways, it was a metaphore truth be told. You're allright, save for the dogma crowning this touchy thread.
No, she is not all righgt. She is a sick and evil minded individual who should be locked up in a room with doctors to treat her.
You have no idea what a dreadful creature she is.

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231626 Nov 29, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>No, she is not all righgt. She is a sick and evil minded individual who should be locked up in a room with doctors to treat her.
You have no idea what a dreadful creature she is.
It's not easy to keep the peace, even less communication, when either side have completely different perspectives. She tends to refer miscarriage and such to the will of god, in lack of scientific persepctive. But she appears interested in how to phase out abortion and that's good. That's what all of us want I bet. She admitted that abortion is necessary during Ectopic Pregnancy btw. I'd say she's opening up. I hope she conciders changing the head line to match her mindset towards Ectopic abortion however.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#231627 Nov 29, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not easy to keep the peace, even less communication, when either side have completely different perspectives. She tends to refer miscarriage and such to the will of god, in lack of scientific persepctive. But she appears interested in how to phase out abortion and that's good. That's what all of us want I bet. She admitted that abortion is necessary during Ectopic Pregnancy btw. I'd say she's opening up. I hope she conciders changing the head line to match her mindset towards Ectopic abortion however.
No, she has condemned me and called me a murderer for simply SUPPORTING choice. She calls me a murderer for having had a therapeutic abortion to save my life. She had called others who have never had an elective abortion murderers for supporting choice.
She puts it all on her god, has no real education, and thinks she has the right to judge others, not only on this plane, but she considers herself to be the voice of god. She is a hypocrite and a liar.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#231628 Nov 29, 2013
Life s Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Liar!
Monkey Poo Finger???? Really?
Grow the f*ck up pig.
You are a Monkey Poo FLinger...note the "L"

You fling lies and insults just as a monkey flings poo.

Mindlessly, incessantly, and for absolutely no reason.

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231629 Nov 29, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>No, she has condemned me and called me a murderer for simply SUPPORTING choice. She calls me a murderer for having had a therapeutic abortion to save my life. She had called others who have never had an elective abortion murderers for supporting choice.
She puts it all on her god, has no real education, and thinks she has the right to judge others, not only on this plane, but she considers herself to be the voice of god. She is a hypocrite and a liar.
We've been exchanging insults on this thread quite fiercely- and I'm not sure in what order anynore. But I think it starts off with the excessive head line "there is EVERYTHING wrong with abortion". Excessive, because she recently admited that abortion IS acceptable in cases of Ectopic Pregnancy <- not that it's ok, but that she understands and respects women for choosing that way out, in lack of better options. In terms of life or death for a mother, I believe "Precious" is about to accept abortion until better options are made available. I really hope she'll change the title of this thread soon, or it won't add up to what she's saying.

Both of you have been through a miscarriage of sorts, that neither of you chose. It happened- due to primitive health care, due to the times we live in. In some hundred years, pregnancies will never end badly and never be unintended. In the times we live in, abortion is necessary, but in the future it's phased out as science catches on for real.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#231630 Nov 29, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
<quoted text>
We've been exchanging insults on this thread quite fiercely- and I'm not sure in what order anynore. But I think it starts off with the excessive head line "there is EVERYTHING wrong with abortion". Excessive, because she recently admited that abortion IS acceptable in cases of Ectopic Pregnancy <- not that it's ok, but that she understands and respects women for choosing that way out, in lack of better options. In terms of life or death for a mother, I believe "Precious" is about to accept abortion until better options are made available. I really hope she'll change the title of this thread soon, or it won't add up to what she's saying.
Both of you have been through a miscarriage of sorts, that neither of you chose. It happened- due to primitive health care, due to the times we live in. In some hundred years, pregnancies will never end badly and never be unintended. In the times we live in, abortion is necessary, but in the future it's phased out as science catches on for real.
If someone opposes abortion FOR THEM, based upon their morals, that's fine. That's a personal choice.

But when some old hag from Indiana accuses 800,000 women per year, women she's never met and knows nothing about, of having abortion based on "convenience" and "being selfish bitches" I find that 100% unacceptable.

Who is SHE to determine what is "convenient" for a woman she's never met?

How is that even remotely okay?

Each woman who finds herself pregnant has THREE choices:

To have the child and plan to raise it.

To have the child and give it up for adoption

To have an abortion

To deny a woman even one of those choices deprives her of bodily autonomy.

There is nothing right about forcing a woman to remain pregnant and to give birth against her will.

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231631 Nov 29, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Each woman who finds herself pregnant has THREE choices:
To have the child and plan to raise it.
To have the child and give it up for adoption
To have an abortion
To deny a woman even one of those choices deprives her of bodily autonomy.
I agree. It's her body. But society must do all it can to prevent the impossible scenarios where for instance the woman attemts and succeeds pregnancy, but changes her mind 8 months later. That does happen and if she's forced to proceed she could die. If it comes to that scenario, there's nothing we can do. Nor condemn. We can be very sorry and even condemn society for not having given her more time to reflect on pregnancy before sex. That baby, however, is a part of her and we must respect her decission. Only preventive measures on HER TERMS must be allowed- and could work wonders. But IF society does fail at educating women on how to avoid regretable pregnancy/parenthood, it's a tragedy but nothing more than that. No one is to criticize the woman in question. It's her life, her body and temple.
If a christian stepped right into a Mosque and called out that mohammed is just another prophet, while Jesus is God- then there could be a fight. It'd be even worse if people stepped right into your life, telling you that you don't have the right to your own body. It's repulsive to think about.

Phasing out abortion is key, to offer women options. If their lives are easy and their minds at pease- they will make the right decission for their child and themselves- not that it'd be of our business, but we'd know they'll be okey.

“Define Necessity”

Since: Mar 13

FOR YOURSELF

#231632 Nov 29, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. It's her body. But society must do all it can to prevent the impossible scenarios where for instance the woman attemts and succeeds pregnancy, but changes her mind 8 months later. That does happen and if she's forced to proceed she could die. If it comes to that scenario, there's nothing we can do. Nor condemn. We can be very sorry and even condemn society for not having given her more time to reflect on pregnancy before sex. That baby, however, is a part of her and we must respect her decission. Only preventive measures on HER TERMS must be allowed- and could work wonders. But IF society does fail at educating women on how to avoid regretable pregnancy/parenthood, it's a tragedy but nothing more than that. No one is to criticize the woman in question. It's her life, her body and temple.
If a christian stepped right into a Mosque and called out that mohammed is just another prophet, while Jesus is God- then there could be a fight. It'd be even worse if people stepped right into your life, telling you that you don't have the right to your own body. It's repulsive to think about.
Phasing out abortion is key, to offer women options. If their lives are easy and their minds at pease- they will make the right decission for their child and themselves- not that it'd be of our business, but we'd know they'll be okey.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but....generally, if for instance the woman attempts and succeeds pregnancy, but "changes her mind" 8 months later, it's because the fetus is threatening her life, or is already dead, or is dying of something incurable. That does happen and if she's forced to proceed she could die.

This business of discussing late term abortion as if it was a frivolous and purely selfish decision, appalls me. A woman who wants to abort a perfectly healthy fetus which is not posing an imminent threat to her life, is mentally challenged, at best. And in most states, she won't be obliged, with a legal abortion.

Generally, in cases of an eight month pregnancy, what's done is a C-SECTION, which results in a live birth....because unless her life is threatened, or her fetus is dead, or horribly compromised, performing an ABORTION is already illegal.

Since you seem to want to throw religion into the mix, how about this scenario:

If a woman married to a Muslim man fails to get pregnant, and he desires to stone her for being barren, per the dictates of his faith, would this religious tradition find traction with your sensibilities? Cuz, gee - if Christians have the power to restrict my reproductive rights on account of 'their religion', why shouldn't the religious rights of Muslims be recognized as well?

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231633 Nov 30, 2013
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text>A woman who wants to abort a perfectly healthy fetus which is not posing an imminent threat to her life, is mentally challenged, at best. And in most states, she won't be obliged, with a legal abortion.
With that in mind, legal abortion is just for life threatening scenarios then. Thanks for sharing :) I'm sure "Precious" is glad to hear it too.

At least women should choose whether to risk their frkn LIFE to pregnancy. The impossible scenario then; What if a woman won't go through with labour and is too weak for C-section, for some reason.

I fear only future health care can meet that challenge right?:/ Sad times

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231634 Nov 30, 2013
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text> Since you seem to want to throw religion into the mix, how about this scenario......
Thankfully, western jurisdiction rests on proof instead of outdated scrolls. Sadly that's yet to govern all societies.

I'd rather not linger at religion thank you. My example with the christian entering that mosque was just another metaphore for something, never mind that.

Religion is nice, but in terms of what it can give us in this life, science will phase it out one day. Again, law rests on proof allready, but sadly not everywhere.

“Define Necessity”

Since: Mar 13

FOR YOURSELF

#231635 Nov 30, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thankfully, western jurisdiction rests on proof instead of outdated scrolls. Sadly that's yet to govern all societies.
I'd rather not linger at religion thank you. My example with the christian entering that mosque was just another metaphore for something, never mind that.
Religion is nice, but in terms of what it can give us in this life, science will phase it out one day. Again, law rests on proof allready, but sadly not everywhere.
My apologies for the pugnacious tone of the post to which you reply here...it had been a long day, and I should have found another venue in which to vent.

:)

As for imminent life-threatening pregnancies being the only ones worthy of allowing the choice to abort, that IS my stance as it applies to me, myself, and I...but I disagree that I (or anyone else) should be able to impose that restriction on women who may feel differently.

My babies were joyfully anticipated by both me and their dad...not all babies are so lucky.

Every child should be a wanted child...that's just the way I feel about it.

Since: Oct 13

Ängelholm, Sweden

#231636 Nov 30, 2013
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text>
Every child should be a wanted child...that's just the way I feel about it.
Kudos, I *agree*

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#231637 Nov 30, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. It's her body. But society must do all it can to prevent the impossible scenarios where for instance the woman attemts and succeeds pregnancy, but changes her mind 8 months later. That does happen and if she's forced to proceed she could die. If it comes to that scenario, there's nothing we can do. Nor condemn. We can be very sorry and even condemn society for not having given her more time to reflect on pregnancy before sex. That baby, however, is a part of her and we must respect her decission. Only preventive measures on HER TERMS must be allowed- and could work wonders. But IF society does fail at educating women on how to avoid regretable pregnancy/parenthood, it's a tragedy but nothing more than that. No one is to criticize the woman in question. It's her life, her body and temple.
If a christian stepped right into a Mosque and called out that mohammed is just another prophet, while Jesus is God- then there could be a fight. It'd be even worse if people stepped right into your life, telling you that you don't have the right to your own body. It's repulsive to think about.
Phasing out abortion is key, to offer women options. If their lives are easy and their minds at pease- they will make the right decission for their child and themselves- not that it'd be of our business, but we'd know they'll be okey.
No reputable doctor performs an "on-demand" abortion on a woman at 8 months gestation. That's Anti-Choice propaganda.

When an abortion is performed past 5 months gestation, it's almost always because the pregnancy threatens the woman's life, or something is horrifically wrong with the fetus.

And those abortions past approximately 5 months gestation are LESS than 2% of ALL performed.

Over 90% are at 3 months gestation or less.

Since: Oct 13

Ängelholm, Sweden

#231638 Nov 30, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
No reputable doctor performs an "on-demand" abortion on a woman at 8 months gestation. That's Anti-Choice propaganda.
When an abortion is performed past 5 months gestation, it's almost always because the pregnancy threatens the woman's life, or something is horrifically wrong with the fetus.
And those abortions past approximately 5 months gestation are LESS than 2% of ALL performed.
Over 90% are at 3 months gestation or less.
I appreciate that. I'm sure Precious enjoys reading it too, provided she does care for women forced to pregnancy as she recently claimed.

Since: Oct 13

Ängelholm, Sweden

#231639 Nov 30, 2013
Sigh.. all this judging tagging without proper argumentation to go -_-
Anyone of you here interested in fighting whatever causes Ectopic Pregnancy, miscarriage and the like?
In a society where pregnancy/labour can be fatal to the mother, everthing can HARDLY be wrong with abortion.

(You tag this nuts, spammy or clueless- without slapping down a valid argument, then you're a joke)

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#231642 Nov 30, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
Sigh.. all this judging tagging without proper argumentation to go -_-
Anyone of you here interested in fighting whatever causes Ectopic Pregnancy, miscarriage and the like?
In a society where pregnancy/labour can be fatal to the mother, everthing can HARDLY be wrong with abortion.
(You tag this nuts, spammy or clueless- without slapping down a valid argument, then you're a joke)
What causes miscarriage is generally something wrong with the fetus, so wrong that it cannot sustain life.

Moon already stated what causes ectopic pregnancy.

that's called "nature." Fighting it isn't really possible.

It IS possible to fight ignorance. Let's fight the kind of ignorance that causes someone to state that 800,000 women per year are "selfish bitches."

Let's fight the kind of ignorance that would have children born to parents who don't want them, and those who don't want to be parents.

Let's fight the kind of ignorance that thinks they can decide what is "convenient" for other women.

Or the kind that would put the "rights" of an 8 week fetus above those of a sentient, living, breathing woman.

You think abortion is bad? It's FAR worse being born to parents who didn't want you. It's far worse hearing that your mother tried to miscarry you when she found out she was pregnant. It's way worse hearing what a constant drain on their finances you are or how you are a constant disappointment to them.

No woman should be forced to remain pregnant and give birth against her will. No matter WHAT anyone else thinks.

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