There is Everything Wrong with Abortion
That Geek 5410

Bridgeport, WV

#231507 Nov 19, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>As I said, your views, your opinions are irrelevant. It isn't your problem, and since you have no uterus, it never will be.
All views may be irrelevant except to the individual and possibly those with similar interests.

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231508 Nov 19, 2013
sallygal wrote:
youtube.com/watch?v=Ygy0eLVMlG g …
Ban sex and abortion is cured
oh?:) NO flame tags on that one. Guess you must have said something right xD

Religion sure is BORING x)

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

#231509 Nov 19, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>As I said, your views, your opinions are irrelevant. It isn't your problem, and since you have no uterus, it never will be.
kudos. you and that tea cup thumb are both real fighters <3

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#231510 Nov 19, 2013
AverageGuy87 wrote:
<quoted text>
kudos. you and that tea cup thumb are both real fighters <3
Thanks, it's been an interesting life, and at my age I'm getting really tired of the whole anti-woman attitude of the powers that be. Laws restricting our reproductive rights, to stop or make it more difficult for us to vote, to empower rapists to make our lives even more miserable than the rape did.
When I was first married there was no such thing as spousal rape. It simply was not a crime, even if it was forced on a woman only a few days after she'd given birth and ripped open her episiotomy, as was my case. Nothing to be done but cry and deal with the pain.
I was pressured to have an abortion, and that was just as wrong as those who pressure women to attempt to carry to term.
Thanks for your support!

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#231511 Nov 19, 2013
That Geek 5410 wrote:
I don't believe it's foolish or wrong sir. The 4th amendment is a shall not clause governing the states interaction with the citizen in that it protects them from unreasonable searches and seizures. Now if some state or the federal government tried to pass a law mandating an abortion then it very well become a 4th amendment issue (as well as other civil liberties) however this does not appear to be one if those cases.
<quoted text>
No, it is indeed wrong. You focused on just one part of the amendment, while ignoring the first clause "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects..."
That right to be secure in their persons includes the right of women to seek such medical treatment as they deem necessary, even elective procedures.

If anything, forcing women to gestate against their will would be a violation of the very clause you cite, the clause prohibiting unreasonable seizures.
That Geek 5410

Saint Albans, WV

#231512 Nov 19, 2013
Maybe the solution here is to keep abortion at it's current status and enact legislation and programs to make the alternatives more practical and reliable to actually give women more options. For instance revamp the foster care and adoption system to provide better care to children and help them lead better lives while they are under state care and expidite adoption to place them with wanting and loving families. Better funding for domestic violence protection programs to protect women and childre with harsher consequences for offenders. And finally if the woman still really doesn't believe she can go through with it then abortion is still an option.

Just a thought.
That Geek 5410

Saint Albans, WV

#231513 Nov 19, 2013
How is that a search or seizure? If an individual state would rule abortion to be illegal or further restrict it then they are governing the physicians scope of practice. Additionally the amendment specifically states against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can't omit a portion of an amendment when you are interpreting it
.
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is indeed wrong. You focused on just one part of the amendment, while ignoring the first clause "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects..."
That right to be secure in their persons includes the right of women to seek such medical treatment as they deem necessary, even elective procedures.
If anything, forcing women to gestate against their will would be a violation of the very clause you cite, the clause prohibiting unreasonable seizures.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#231514 Nov 19, 2013
That Geek 5410 wrote:
Maybe the solution here is to keep abortion at it's current status and enact legislation and programs to make the alternatives more practical and reliable to actually give women more options. For instance revamp the foster care and adoption system to provide better care to children and help them lead better lives while they are under state care and expidite adoption to place them with wanting and loving families. Better funding for domestic violence protection programs to protect women and childre with harsher consequences for offenders. And finally if the woman still really doesn't believe she can go through with it then abortion is still an option.
Just a thought.
No, the solution has to start with health care that give every woman the tools she needs to control her own reproductive health. Contraception that is reliable and as effective as possible, and when that fails, let her decide what to do about it and don't put obstacles in her way.
Yes the other things need work, but they're all related to the idea some men have that they have some sort of right to control what we do.
THAT is the thing that needs to change first, men who have that silly idea need to get it out of their heads.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#231515 Nov 19, 2013
That Geek 5410 wrote:
Maybe the solution here is to keep abortion at it's current status and enact legislation and programs to make the alternatives more practical and reliable to actually give women more options. For instance revamp the foster care and adoption system to provide better care to children and help them lead better lives while they are under state care and expidite adoption to place them with wanting and loving families. Better funding for domestic violence protection programs to protect women and childre with harsher consequences for offenders. And finally if the woman still really doesn't believe she can go through with it then abortion is still an option.
Just a thought.
Good, but you left out teaching all kids about birth control (including proper use, benefits and risks associated) before they might need it, as part of a comprehensive sex ed class in middle school. And I do mean ALL kids - no one should be allowed to "opt out" of this for any reason, no kid graduates without it, including home schooled.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#231516 Nov 19, 2013
That Geek 5410 wrote:
How is that a search or seizure? If an individual state would rule abortion to be illegal or further restrict it then they are governing the physicians scope of practice. Additionally the amendment specifically states against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can't omit a portion of an amendment when you are interpreting it
.
<quoted text>
The only way to keep a woman from getting an abortion would be to place her in custody for the duration of her pregnancy, which is definitely a seizure since she is now in custody, and certainly unreasonable, since it is forcing the woman to undergo a potentially life threatening process against her will.
That Geek 5410

Saint Albans, WV

#231517 Nov 19, 2013
I already said leave it the way it is. So abortion would still be 100% legal and an option. I also completely agree with you on womens health and contraceptives. Now if only they could make a birth control pill for guys.
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>No, the solution has to start with health care that give every woman the tools she needs to control her own reproductive health. Contraception that is reliable and as effective as possible, and when that fails, let her decide what to do about it and don't put obstacles in her way.
Yes the other things need work, but they're all related to the idea some men have that they have some sort of right to control what we do.
THAT is the thing that needs to change first, men who have that silly idea need to get it out of their heads.
That Geek 5410

Saint Albans, WV

#231518 Nov 19, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Good, but you left out teaching all kids about birth control (including proper use, benefits and risks associated) before they might need it, as part of a comprehensive sex ed class in middle school. And I do mean ALL kids - no one should be allowed to "opt out" of this for any reason, no kid graduates without it, including home schooled.
Mandatory sex ed... I certainly agree with you there. Middle School however I may not. There are kids getting pregnant earlier than middle school and both girls and boys are starting to enter puberty earlier. I would consider introducing as early as 4th grade.
That Geek 5410

Saint Albans, WV

#231519 Nov 19, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
The only way to keep a woman from getting an abortion would be to place her in custody for the duration of her pregnancy, which is definitely a seizure since she is now in custody, and certainly unreasonable, since it is forcing the woman to undergo a potentially life threatening process against her will.
That's not how they control patient assisted suicide (for instance). They legislate what the physician can or cannot do. Actually I think a better example would be partial birth abortions. The law makers ruled it illegal so law abiding physicians stopped doing it. Once the woman passed the time frame of legally have an abortion they would have to find a physician that would do it anyway (Dr. Gosnel for instance). To the nest of my knowledge no women were placed in custody and/or restrained.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#231520 Nov 19, 2013
That Geek 5410 wrote:
I already said leave it the way it is. So abortion would still be 100% legal and an option. I also completely agree with you on womens health and contraceptives. Now if only they could make a birth control pill for guys.
<quoted text>
No, the way it IS has far too many restrictions. There should be NONE afaic, but at the least it should be unrestricted completely up to 20 weeks, with NO waiting times, NO "required counselling", and NO required notification of ANYONE. Right now there are too many places where women cannot obtain an abortion without jumping through a bunch of hoops.
Leaving it as it is, is not an option.
That Geek 5410

Saint Albans, WV

#231521 Nov 20, 2013
Perhaps the best prolife solution is focus on pregnancy prevention making contraception better and more availabe as well as educating the people. Less unwanted pregnancies should equal less abortion.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#231522 Nov 20, 2013
That Geek 5410 wrote:
Perhaps the best prolife solution is focus on pregnancy prevention making contraception better and more availabe as well as educating the people. Less unwanted pregnancies should equal less abortion.
Oh GEE!!! That's just brilliant!!
LOOK EVERYONE!!!
That Geek has the answer!!!
Why hasn't anyone else thought of this??!!!?
Oh, yeah, someone DID already think of it. MOST of us.
The Right wing conservatives have fought to prevent every expansion of better reproductive education, better access to birth control (for women, they don't mind condoms being out there, but don't care to develop male BC)any and all efforts to lower the number of unplanned pregnancies. Except abstinence, which is a non answer.
That Geek 5410

Saint Albans, WV

#231524 Nov 20, 2013
If there weren't any serrious side effects I'd love to take a male birth control pill... at least until my wife and I decide to have children.
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh GEE!!! That's just brilliant!!
LOOK EVERYONE!!!
That Geek has the answer!!!
Why hasn't anyone else thought of this??!!!?
Oh, yeah, someone DID already think of it. MOST of us.
The Right wing conservatives have fought to prevent every expansion of better reproductive education, better access to birth control (for women, they don't mind condoms being out there, but don't care to develop male BC)any and all efforts to lower the number of unplanned pregnancies. Except abstinence, which is a non answer.

Since: Sep 09

Location hidden

#231525 Nov 20, 2013
That Geek 5410 wrote:
If there weren't any serrious side effects I'd love to take a male birth control pill... at least until my wife and I decide to have children.
<quoted text>
All hormonal delivery contraceptives have potentially serious side effects. Barrier methods are less effective as is any timing method. If your wife is on the pill, take a peek at the literature that accompanies the packet.

The reason male bc pills hasn't been explored in any serious fashion is because Big Pharm won't back a loser. Most men would not take them, you being a possible exception. Big Pharm is in for profit. Hence, the popularity of the "blue" pill.

Since women are the ones that gestate, the focus to prevent an unwanted pregnancy is with the egg carrier who has or should have a vested interest in planning a pregnancy.

Imho, the popularity of Viagra, combined with the new clamps on safe and discretionary abortion is a slap in the face to all women.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#231526 Nov 20, 2013
That Geek 5410 wrote:
Perhaps the best prolife solution is focus on pregnancy prevention making contraception better and more availabe as well as educating the people. Less unwanted pregnancies should equal less abortion.
You do realize that birth control fails? Even surgical birth control (i.e., vasectomies, tubal ligations)??

This is a great thought,and absolutely should be followed.

HOWEVER, unwanted pregnancies have happened since people figured out that sex feels good. Abortions have happened since then too. The kicker is that the woman used to die as often as the fetus.

It is imperative that abortion remain safe and legal. IF it's not legal, women will resort to coat hangars, unsafe treatments, or worse.

Having a woman die because the condom broke isn't a resolution to anything.
That Geek 5410

Fairmont, WV

#231527 Nov 20, 2013
I wife and I talked thuroughly about it and we came to the decision she was better off stopping the ortho.
Junket wrote:
<quoted text>
All hormonal delivery contraceptives have potentially serious side effects. Barrier methods are less effective as is any timing method. If your wife is on the pill, take a peek at the literature that accompanies the packet.
The reason male bc pills hasn't been explored in any serious fashion is because Big Pharm won't back a loser. Most men would not take them, you being a possible exception. Big Pharm is in for profit. Hence, the popularity of the "blue" pill.
Since women are the ones that gestate, the focus to prevent an unwanted pregnancy is with the egg carrier who has or should have a vested interest in planning a pregnancy.
Imho, the popularity of Viagra, combined with the new clamps on safe and discretionary abortion is a slap in the face to all women.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 23 min Bongo 56,123
Moms having sex with their sons (Aug '12) 1 hr akon mason 70
Why Should Jesus Love Me? (Feb '08) 3 hr Peace_Warrior 618,575
Should Black People Forgive White People for Sl... (Jun '07) 3 hr Johnny 4,848
Poll White Men, Would You Have A BABY by a Black Woman (Apr '10) 3 hr Johnny 507
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 3 hr RoSesz 650,173
Israel End is Near (Feb '15) 3 hr Steve III 439
Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus ... (Mar '07) 3 hr Steve III 44,955
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 6 hr another viewer 971,759
More from around the web