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“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

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#231270
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I completely agree but the way this writer was putting it, it was as if the female was in no way responsible. Some men are just dickheads , but as women we shouldnt descend to their level and abort our children.
I admire those women who raise kids on their own because the fathers couldnt man up. I respect those mother who sacrifice so much for their kids. I truly do. But what I dont understand is why other mother would kill their children?(actually i do, but still ?.. doesnt it make you think?)
In the case of your 14yo child , as if they wouldnt have learnt by the 2nd child , if anything that suggests that there is something wrong with the girl ?
"Unfortunately irresponsible men aren't force to wear a tattoo on their forehead warning women about their nature."
Then by all means suss out what a man is really like before you decide to get intimate with him.
I believe wholeheartedly in defending the lives of these children who have no voices to speak because their testimony should be heard.
1. When 97% of ALL abortions happen, the "child" is less than 3 months in gestation. It is not a child. It is an embryo, at best. It feels no pain at that point (according to the best references I can find) and it causes the woman little to no damage, certainly a lesser risk than delivering a full term infant.

Why would they? I was a single mom with two kids. I know exactly why I made that choice. I chose the children I had 100% responsibility for over the six week gestation pregnancy I was carrying. It was a horrendous choice, very hard to make. But I did what I knew was RIGHT for my existing children.

I don't expect you to agree, and I'm only telling you that so that you can at least try to comprehend why anyone would make that choice.

It's not easy; it's seldom made lightly. I know many women who have made the same decision I made for the same reasons. They did not have the emotional, financial, and/or physical resources to care for another child while already being a single parent.

When you have two human beings 100% responsible on you for their every need, you really need to think long and hard about whether or not you have those necessary resources to be the parent that child deserves and needs. I didn't feel I could do it.

It's not a decision that anyone BUT the pregnant woman should make. And if anyone interferes with her decision, I firmly believe that interfering SOB should commit him/herself to that child for the next 18 years and help support it, financially, emotionally and physically.

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

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#231271
Oct 8, 2013
 

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NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>No, it is not a child, it is not a baby. Those are BORN HUMAN BEINGS.
Regardless of whatever romantic notions you have about it, conception does not equal child.
Never has, never will.
When ETAs are performed there is only a wad of goo that may have the potential to develop, but no guarantee.
Pregnancy is ALWAYS potentially a health and life threatening condition.
It is NEVER guaranteed to come to term resulting in a healthy live mother and child, no matter how well the woman cares for herself or how much she wants to carry to term. NEVER.
Now, should you ever become pregnant, you are perfectly free to attempt to carry that to term. That would be YOUR CHOICE. Your choice to risk your health and life, your choice to commit to caring for the child (should you succeed in carrying to term), your choice to go through the pregnancy. However, I suspect you are male, and your only real goal is to see that women are controlled and turned back into the chattel that we once were.
Sorry, we aren't going back, and nobody owes you any explanation or reasoning about what medical decisions they make or what they are.
Not your uterus? Not your body? NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!
It's that simple, kid.
Oh, and by the way, you keep attributing things to me that I have not said. STFU if you can't stick to the facts, although I can see that you have a very slim grip on things that are true. You seem to be living in some sort of fairy tale world.
you are guru, it was so much fun reading this. perfection <3

Since: Oct 13

Sweden

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#231272
Oct 8, 2013
 

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mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you like me to provide links with the words "Pro-Choice" in the address? Would you immediately sneer?
Why would you expect me to do any differently when you provide links that say "prolife" in the address?
You really are a Neanderthal, aren't you!
he/she actually expected you to watch a MOVIE?!:D

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231273
Oct 8, 2013
 

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AverageGuy87 wrote:
Judge taging without following up with argumentation is childish and pointless. So, try to disagree with this:
As a fetus, there's a risk you can experience actual pain. There's no science to back that up with facts, but there's a risk. Still, abortion must be an option should a woman feel worried and afraid about labour. Especially if she's a rape victim, or risks serious complications- it MUST be up to HER.
It's a complicated matter. On the other hand there's a little life we talk about, and on the other we talk about labour, a physical effort that to many women can be overwhelming and frightening.
Preventing the need for abortion through careful education must be no.1 priority. You can detect pregnancy after two weeks so you'll have plenty of time to prevent the egg from growing. This must be a freedom to each and every woman out there.
We can look at this matter from atheistic and religious angles alike, but it all comes down to the woman carrying this tiny life: IT MUST BE UP TO HER.
Actually, there IS science about this: the fetus is NOT able to feel pain during the early portion of its development. The brain and spinal cord do not even start to develop until the 3rd week after conception. It is another week after that that the neural tube closes.

More formally:
Changes in the gross morphology of the prenatal neural system are underpinned by changes occurring at the cellular level. Neuron production in humans begins on embryonic day 42. E42, i.e. 42 days post conception (Bystron et al. 2008; Stiles 2008) and is largely complete by midgestation. As they are produced neurons migrate to different brain areas where they begin to make connections with other neurons establishing rudimentary neural networks. By the end of the prenatal period major fiber pathways, including the thalamocortical pathway, are complete.
from here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2...
Further:
Two of the most important pathways in the brain are the ones that transmit sensorimotor information, the thalamocortical (TC) and corticothalamic (CT) pathways. The TC relays sensory and motor information from the receptors in the retina, cochlea, muscle or skin to the sensorimotor regions of the neocortex via the major subcortical sensorimotor relay, the thalamus. The CT pathway completes the feedback loop by transmitting information from cortex back to the thalamus. These essential pathways begin to form in the later part of the second trimester in humans, and are complete by GW 26 (Kostovic and Jovanov-Milosevic 2006).
The neural pathways necessary to transmit ANY sensations (including pain) do not even begin to form until late in the SECOND trimester.

Most abortions occur in the FIRST trimester.

I definitely agree with the need for all kids to receive PROPER sex ed BEFORE there is any chance that they might become pregnant. Proper sex ed includes all of the information necessary to understand how pregnancy occurs, as well as info on the proper use and the pros and cons of the various forms of birth control. And yes, that includes the proper method of putting on a condom as well as anatomically accurate models of the male & female genitalia...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231274
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
So basically , if the parents conclude that the quality of the life of the child will be crap due to their lack of finances / or being sent a foster home .. and because the chilld will not get the love it deserves ... rather than try to give a life to that baby, it is best to kill it from the get-go ?
Thats like giving up before you've even started ?
The baby is a HUMAN BEING . and the most basic RIGHT of a HUMAN BEING is LIFE .
Babies are indeed human beings, but fetuses are not. But then, no baby has ever been harmed by abortion.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231275
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
Never is killing "responsible" .. ever .. Not with abortion , not with euthanasia .. never .

Human life is sacred. EVERY individual is unique and unrepeatable and has a part to play in human existence.
Does that include suicide?
LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
How dare you ?.. "Wad of Goo" ?! ARE YOU KIDDING ?!.
Go jump off a bridge or something if you have nothing good to contribute to humanity.
Maybe you should change your "I believe in" from 'life' to 'utilitarianism', that would be much more appropriate.
Oh. Apparently not...

Hypocrite.

“Fast before the feast”

Since: Oct 13

Sydney, Australia

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#231276
Oct 8, 2013
 
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Please use some common sense. What is "right" for you may not be right for someone else.
You do not have the responsibility or the duty to tell another human being (that is not related to you) what is "right" for them.
It may be right for you to have 25 children to support, nurture, love, feed, keep warm, for the rest of their natural lives.
But it is NOT right for someone else. And NO ONE has the "right" to tell them what is right or wrong for their life.
You please use you common sense and stop buying into the popular philosophy if our day, relativism, which say that the truth is whatever you want it to be because the truth is objective and unchanging whether you like it or not. Please study some philospohy and educate yourself on THE TRUTH.
The only right and wrong im arguing here is killing the child, not how many children the mother can have. How many she want to have is up to her, but killing the child is always wrong period.
Th

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231277
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
NO ?! NO it IS NOT . thats the point im trying to get across. Its about the CHILD for crying out loud ?
There are NO children involved in abortion, unless a child was raped.
LIBER-THINKER wrote:
. Stop trying to make it out like the mother is the victim when the CHILD is the one being killed. Just for your information I'm a girl too
I am disinclined to believe that...
LIBER-THINKER wrote:
and i dont believe in that "feel sorry for me because im a woman" bullshit. I know that getting pregnant is not only the womans fault but also the fathers but your making it out like they had no choice in the matter whatsoever.
All too often, that IS the case.
LIBER-THINKER wrote:
I hate it when women act like people owe them more than their due. Honestly. The primary concern in this instance should be the child , but you obviously prefer to put it on the mother.
Because the mother is the ONLY person involved.
LIBER-THINKER wrote:
Why do I believe that the concern be on the child? because it is a being worthy of life. A person who has their whole lives ahead of them. As if you would rob that child of the opportunity to live because it is all too much for the parents at the present time. Hardships are only temporary but memories last forever.
I believe in safeguarding the lives of those innocent people and give props to mothers in general because it's one hell of a duty.
This kind of procedure is evil and affects the world as we know it because it encourages people to kill for their own convenience and encourages other to think less of the value of human life.
I wonder if any of you have done research on the effects of abortion on women? The psychological impacts ?
You haven't. That is quite clear, since there the actual data shows that very few women suffer any psychological harm from getting an abortion. The ones that do, are most likely suffering from religious delusions.
LIBER-THINKER wrote:
All you feminists I challenge you to go and research the effects of abortion on women and then come back and tell me how its all "happy happy joy joy" because its her decision, and take credit for all that depression and those suicides because you supported a choice which would damage her for the rest of her life.
Follow your own "advice".
LIBER-THINKER wrote:
Of course its the mothers choice because its her body , but just because she can do it, does it make it right?
The ONLY sensible thing that you have said.

Is it right? That depends on many factors, and must ultimately be decided for each woman based on her own circumstances. Try and learn something: EVERY pregnancy carries a risk to the woman, up and including the risk of death. Granted, for most women the risk is small, but it is NEVER zero. Then too, there is no guarantee that the pregnancy will carry to term.

Only about 1 fertilized egg in 5 actually makes it all the way to live birth - and that is assuming that the woman wants to have a baby and is doing everything she can to make that possible.

Welcome to the real world. Hope you can stay for a while...

“Fast before the feast”

Since: Oct 13

Sydney, Australia

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#231278
Oct 8, 2013
 

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Does that include suicide?
<quoted text>
Oh. Apparently not...
Hypocrite.
Thanks for taking that out of context, it was obviously in spite because the person whom i was writing to was being nonsensical. But no I wasnt being serious

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231279
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
Since I'm no scientist , I'll let these world renowned scientists say it for themselves.
http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/em...
That site is nothing but meaningless quote mining. Had those scientists been quoted IN FULL, I dare say that none of them would say anything in support of your opinion.

“Fast before the feast”

Since: Oct 13

Sydney, Australia

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#231280
Oct 8, 2013
 

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Babies are indeed human beings, but fetuses are not. But then, no baby has ever been harmed by abortion.
It may not be a "baby" yet but it is A HUMAN BEING, a HUMAN LIFE. fetus, baby, toddler, adolescent, teenager, adult -> theyre all stages of LIFE . Lives have been killed by abortion.
Please tell me the difference between a baby and a fetus that makes it unworthy of life.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231281
Oct 8, 2013
 

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quilterqueen wrote:
When you stop a baby from being born - it is an offense to God.
Which God? Certainly not the God of the Bible, since the only thing that the Bible has to say about abortion is that it is definitely not murder. At worst, if men fighting end up causing an abortion, it is a small property crime against the husband. Pay a fine, and your done.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231282
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
It may not be a "baby" yet but it is A HUMAN BEING, a HUMAN LIFE. fetus, baby, toddler, adolescent, teenager, adult -> theyre all stages of LIFE . Lives have been killed by abortion.
Please tell me the difference between a baby and a fetus that makes it unworthy of life.
A baby has been born, thus it is an actual person. A fetus has not been born, thus it is just a wad of goo. And since abortions became legal, very few people have been killed by abortion.

“Fast before the feast”

Since: Oct 13

Sydney, Australia

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#231283
Oct 8, 2013
 

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mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
1. When 97% of ALL abortions happen, the "child" is less than 3 months in gestation. It is not a child. It is an embryo, at best. It feels no pain at that point (according to the best references I can find) and it causes the woman little to no damage, certainly a lesser risk than delivering a full term infant.
Why would they? I was a single mom with two kids. I know exactly why I made that choice. I chose the children I had 100% responsibility for over the six week gestation pregnancy I was carrying. It was a horrendous choice, very hard to make. But I did what I knew was RIGHT for my existing children.
I don't expect you to agree, and I'm only telling you that so that you can at least try to comprehend why anyone would make that choice.
It's not easy; it's seldom made lightly. I know many women who have made the same decision I made for the same reasons. They did not have the emotional, financial, and/or physical resources to care for another child while already being a single parent.
When you have two human beings 100% responsible on you for their every need, you really need to think long and hard about whether or not you have those necessary resources to be the parent that child deserves and needs. I didn't feel I could do it.
It's not a decision that anyone BUT the pregnant woman should make. And if anyone interferes with her decision, I firmly believe that interfering SOB should commit him/herself to that child for the next 18 years and help support it, financially, emotionally and physically.
If you cant have those kids, the for crying out loud , wy put yourslf in a situation where there is a possibility of having a child?. if anything , if you honestly had your childrens insterests at heart you wouldn't do that, being deprived of a father is bad enough.
There is no excuse.
And just because the HUMAN BEING (i just felt the need to emphasise that because apparently you arent human or worth living unless you have the capacity to feel?)can fel doesnt mean its still a person and doesnt make abortion any less horrific. That helps peopled deal with the guilt.
People need to get into their thick heads that we're dealing with living human beings here, not "Wads of goo" ... we were all once "wads of goo" .. and irresepective of our development , we become human beings at the moment of conception and our humanity is unchanging.

“Fast before the feast”

Since: Oct 13

Sydney, Australia

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#231284
Oct 8, 2013
 

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
That site is nothing but meaningless quote mining. Had those scientists been quoted IN FULL, I dare say that none of them would say anything in support of your opinion.
"Recently, Dr. Robert George wrote an article outlining this whole topic in more detail. And if you want to really learn your stuff, pick up his excellent book entitled Embryo (I’m in the middle of reading it right now). In his words:
“That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.”– Dr. Robert George
“Human embryos, whether they are formed by fertilization (natural or in vitro) or by successful somatic-cell nuclear transfer (SCNT — i.e., cloning), do have the internal resources and active disposition to develop themselves to the mature stage of a human organism, requiring only a suitable environment and nutrition. In fact, scientists distinguish embryos from other cells or clusters of cells precisely by their self-directed, integral functioning — their organismal behavior. Thus, human embryos are what the embryology textbooks say they are, namely, human organisms — living individuals of the human species — at the earliest developmental stage.”– Dr. Robert George

But despite our maturity, biological or otherwise, we are “whole” members of the human species – human beings. And with that comes an inherent dignity and right to life."

- See more at: http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/when-does...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231285
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for taking that out of context, it was obviously in spite because the person whom i was writing to was being nonsensical. But no I wasnt being serious
Ah, no, that was not "out of context". It demonstrated the inconsistency of your world view. Also, NWMoon was not being nonsensical, her posts make quite a bit of sense. You were just being pissy because you don't like the sense that she is making.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231286
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
If you cant have those kids, the for crying out loud , wy put yourslf in a situation where there is a possibility of having a child?. if anything , if you honestly had your childrens insterests at heart you wouldn't do that, being deprived of a father is bad enough.
There is no excuse.
And just because the HUMAN BEING (i just felt the need to emphasise that because apparently you arent human or worth living unless you have the capacity to feel?)can fel doesnt mean its still a person and doesnt make abortion any less horrific. That helps peopled deal with the guilt.
People need to get into their thick heads that we're dealing with living human beings here, not "Wads of goo" ... we were all once "wads of goo" .. and irresepective of our development , we become human beings at the moment of conception and our humanity is unchanging.
You are apparently a GREAT example of why this country needs mandatory sex ed classes for all kids prior to puberty. Since you are ignorant of this, be aware that ALL forms of birth control can and do fail.

The OPINION that life begins at conception has no grounding in any facts or evidence currently available to science. At best, it is a religious view, and is thus not suitable to be used as grounds for determining the laws of the land. Get over yourself, you are not that important.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#231287
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
"Recently, Dr. Robert George wrote an article outlining this whole topic in more detail. And if you want to really learn your stuff, pick up his excellent book entitled Embryo (I’m in the middle of reading it right now). In his words:
“That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.”– Dr. Robert George
“Human embryos, whether they are formed by fertilization (natural or in vitro) or by successful somatic-cell nuclear transfer (SCNT — i.e., cloning), do have the internal resources and active disposition to develop themselves to the mature stage of a human organism, requiring only a suitable environment and nutrition. In fact, scientists distinguish embryos from other cells or clusters of cells precisely by their self-directed, integral functioning — their organismal behavior. Thus, human embryos are what the embryology textbooks say they are, namely, human organisms — living individuals of the human species — at the earliest developmental stage.”– Dr. Robert George
But despite our maturity, biological or otherwise, we are “whole” members of the human species – human beings. And with that comes an inherent dignity and right to life."
- See more at: http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/when-does...
While every zygote has its own DNA, that does not make it a person.

Since: Feb 08

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#231288
Oct 8, 2013
 

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LIBER-THINKER wrote:
<quoted text>
If you cant have those kids, the for crying out loud , wy put yourslf in a situation where there is a possibility of having a child?. if anything , if you honestly had your childrens insterests at heart you wouldn't do that, being deprived of a father is bad enough.
There is no excuse.
And just because the HUMAN BEING (i just felt the need to emphasise that because apparently you arent human or worth living unless you have the capacity to feel?)can fel doesnt mean its still a person and doesnt make abortion any less horrific. That helps peopled deal with the guilt.
People need to get into their thick heads that we're dealing with living human beings here, not "Wads of goo" ... we were all once "wads of goo" .. and irresepective of our development , we become human beings at the moment of conception and our humanity is unchanging.
You really are an ignorant and judgemental little troll. What are you? 13? 15?
Go away child, you're too young and foolish to be debating with your elders and betters.
Maybe when you've actually lived some real life you'll see that you've been a complete and absolute fool.
You can have and even make up your own beliefs child, but you cannot make up your own facts. Most of what you've posted are your beliefs, and you don't have the facts to back up your posts.

Since: Feb 08

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#231289
Oct 8, 2013
 

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
You are apparently a GREAT example of why this country needs mandatory sex ed classes for all kids prior to puberty. Since you are ignorant of this, be aware that ALL forms of birth control can and do fail.
The OPINION that life begins at conception has no grounding in any facts or evidence currently available to science. At best, it is a religious view, and is thus not suitable to be used as grounds for determining the laws of the land. Get over yourself, you are not that important.
Hi Liam, hope you and yours are well.
The poster is in Australia. I would have hoped there was a better education system there, but obviously their country is not much better than ours at informing their children of the real facts of life.

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