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“What is it”

Since: May 13

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#230490
May 20, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>I can bequeath all my worldly goods to my dog if I want to - does that make my dog a person??
It surely does not. However, law DOES treat a fetus to be a competent person for the purpose of making a bequest.

Since: Feb 08

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#230491
May 20, 2013
 

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wihangam wrote:
<quoted text>It surely does not. However, law DOES treat a fetus to be a competent person for the purpose of making a bequest.
No, it makes the child born IF the foetus survives gestation an heir.
It does not imbue a foetus with rights or make it a competent person.
No more than willing estates to a dog or cat or institution make them competent people.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

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#230492
May 20, 2013
 

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LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
I am personally against wife beating, but wouldn’t you agree that nobody else can tell a man what he should do with his own body, especially if it is only to keep his own wife from getting out of line? After all HE is the one that has to put up with her, and not you. Are you for freedom of choice, or just a talker about it?
the woman is a living breathing born human being. HE has no right to lay a hand on another human being. he has the right to walk away if he is not happy. he has no right to "keep a human being 'in line'"

in the united states ( and other countries) it is against the law to physically abuse your wife/live in lover.

I know, i helped write a number of these laws.

it really wads your panties that you cannot control a woman and/or her uterus.!!!!!!!!!

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

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#230493
May 20, 2013
 

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Angel1976 wrote:
"Amazing Story of a Mother on MOTHER'S DAY":
When Carolyn Isbister put her 20oz baby on her chest for a cuddle, she thought that it would be the only chance she would ever have to hold her.
Doctors had told the parents that baby Rachel only had only minutes to live because her heart was beating once every ten seconds and she was not breathing.
Isbister remembers:
I didn’t want her to die being cold. So I lifted her out of her blanket and put her against my skin to warm her up. Her feet were so cold.
It was the only cuddle I was going to have with her, so I wanted to remember the moment.” Then something remarkable happened. The warmth of her mother’s skin kick started Rachael’s heart into beating properly, which allowed her to take little breaths of her own.
We couldn’t believe it – and neither could the doctors. She let out a tiny cry.
The doctors came in and said there was still no hope – but I wasn’t letting go of her. We had her blessed by the hospital chaplain, and waited for her to slip away. But she still hung on.
And then amazingly the pink color began to return to her cheeks. She literally was turning from gray to pink before our eyes, and she began to warm up too.
The sad part is that when the baby was born, doctors took one look at her and said ‘no’.
They didn’t even try to help her with her breathing as they said it would just prolong her dying. Everyone just gave up on her,” her mom remembered.
At 24 weeks a womb infection had led to her premature labor and birth and Isbister (who also has two children Samuel, 10, and Kirsten, 8 ) said,“We were terrified we were going to lose her. I had suffered three miscarriages before, so we didn’t think there was much hope.” When Rachael was born she was grey and lifeless.
Ian Laing, a consultant neonatologist at the hospital, said:“All the signs were that the little one was not going to make it and we took the decision to let mum have a cuddle as it was all we could do.
Two hours later the wee thing was crying. This is indeed a miracle baby and I have seen nothing like it in my 27 years of practice. I have not the slightest doubt that mother’s love saved her daughter.”
Rachael was moved onto a ventilator where she continued to make steady progress and was tube and syringe fed her mother’s pumped breastmilk.
Isbister said,“The doctors said that she had proved she was a fighter and that she now deserved some intensive care as there was some hope. She had done it all on her own – without any medical intervention or drugs. She had clung on to life – and it was all because of that cuddle. It had warmed up her body and regulated her heart and breathing enough for her to start fighting.
At 5 weeks she was taken off the ventilator and began breastfeeding on her own........
there is soooooooooo much bullsh!t in this........i don't even know where to begin.
first, premature infants are fed thru their umbilical cord. a line is inserted into the cord. they are not "syringe fed"
second, no preemie is taken off a vent at 29 weeks and allowed to breastfeed! it is medically impossible as the infant would not have the ability to suckle.
anti choicers go to all lengths and tell lie after lie to convince people that very premature infants can survive.
the odds are against it. most babies born before 30 weeks need intensive medical intervention that is -painful- and invasive.
you anti choicers are so up in arms over a 9 week old fetus you claim can feel pain (which it can't) yet have no problem with extreme pain inflicted on a helpless born premature infant.
what hypocrites! and you wonder why you can't change the minds of pro choicers!

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

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#230494
May 20, 2013
 

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Jenji wrote:
I will put in my two cents worth this way... an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure! When I started having sex as a tween I had one prego scare and that's all it took! I went to mom and dad, they took me in and I got an IUC implant. I didn't want a baby, and I would never have got an abortion, so I thought it through for all of about 10 seconds and then went and got a preventive fix offered by modern medical science! I have zero sympathy for "accidentally pregnant" girls.
Birth control fails, even when used properly. One woman who used to post on here was using THREE types of birth control; the pill, condoms, and spermicidal foam and got pregnant twice.

Women who have had tubal ligations have gotten pregnant. I personally know three women to whom that has happened.

Unfortunately, not everyone can be as perfect as you seem to think yourself to be.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

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#230495
May 20, 2013
 

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wihangam wrote:
<quoted text>True. However, it certainly is a guideline.
<quoted text>I never said it would interfere with the right to abort. However, the law would most certainly assume that TWO living persons were assaulted in the event of a pregnant lady is assaulted.
It establishes my point that a fetus IS considered a living being by law. As regards abortion, it is the right of the lady to have the baby or to decide against it.
Besides, I was making an extremely limited point to indicate that fetuses DO have certain Legal Rights contrary to what is being projected here.
You need to do some research. In America, a fetus is NOT considered a human being until a certain point in gestation, that point differs by state.

It's simply proved by the fact that a woman who has an abortion is not prosecuted. If it were considered a living human being, she would be arrested, as would the doctor.

I suggest you look into taking a Critical Thinking class.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#230497
May 20, 2013
 

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wihangam wrote:
<quoted text>It surely does not. However, law DOES treat a fetus to be a competent person for the purpose of making a bequest.
So what happens if the fetus is miscarried??

How is a fetus competent to accept said bequest?

Oh THAT'S right - it isn't.
That would be its parents....who just happen to be born people.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#230499
May 20, 2013
 

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LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
First,“her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow”, meaning that the child and the mother are uninjured.
Except for the FACT that premature birth was a death sentence. The premmie ALWAYS died back then.
LightForce wrote:
"But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life", meaning the child or mother later die.
No, the fetus is dead soon after it pops out. Ever hear of "neonatal intensive care unit" (NICU)? Modern WELL-EQUIPPED hospitals have them now a-days. But guess what? The Israelites did not have hospitals at all, let alone well-equipped ones. The aborted fetus died. Given the trauma of a traumatic abortion, there is a very good chance for the woman to suffer injury or death as well.
LightForce wrote:
But even your example only shows that if it was viewed as an accidental death to the preborn child, as it is written in the law it would not be punishable.
Dolt. IF it was an "accidental" death of the fetus, then it would have been an accidental death of the woman as well. But, that is NOT what it says. It is quite clear, IF you accept the reality of premature birth at that time. Premmies would have always died. Period. Fetus aborted = no crime. Woman harmed = eye for an eye, life for a life.
LightForce wrote:
Either way, it definitely shows the importance that is placed on a pregnant woman, and on the life of the preborn child.
Yes, it does. The woman was counted as a person, hence killing her was a crime, aborting the fetus was nothing more than the loss of a future potential - pay the husband a few coins for the time lost.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#230500
May 20, 2013
 

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lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Haven't asked in a while. Was thinking about it but had a flashback. I work with men many of whom pay child support and have to deal with ex's and children and all the problems associated. The long hours they have to work and the pressure they endure.
<quoted text> Glad its working out for you and hubby.
<quoted text> Women and the police. I am not, i repeat not going to get stuck paying child support for the next 20 years to some female. Let some other jerk off knock her up and pay her bills for her.
So maybe you just need to meet the right guy...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#230501
May 20, 2013
 

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lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> In biblical context a lot of these things we bring on ourselves because of disobedience. Deut. 28 is divided into two categories of blessings and curses. Sickness, enslavement, and general misery passed down to children is in the curses section. What you are defining above could be the result of legal abortion unless you assume these conditions were around for all of human history. You would have to prove that. Obedience brings blessings which includes healthy children. These are not absolutes but themes. Anytime a culture breaks the laws of God like ours does then there are negative consequences which follow and when the offenses reach a certain level there is judgement. Like most non believers you blame God for things we bring on ourselves. Now you do not have to believe it to understand it. I think that is the reason many oppose abortion as practiced. We are called to be a voice for the helpless and to attempt to hold back judgement by resisting evil. Legal abortion as practiced is clearly evil and will bring consequences.
Hey, just look at what happened today in Oklahoma City as a result of all the abortions performed there...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#230502
May 20, 2013
 

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LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is wife beating wrong and abortion OK?
Wife beating harms a human being. Abortion doesn't.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#230503
May 20, 2013
 

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wihangam wrote:
<quoted text>Article 4.1 of American Convention of Human Rights states that "Every person has the right to have his life respected. This right shall be protected by law and, in general, from the moment of conception”.
Unborn Victims of Violence Act recognizes an assault on a pregnant woman to be an assault against two lives. Apart from this, unborn children may be bequeathed property.
So, it is incorrect to say that fetuses have no rights till they are born.
#1 The United States of America has not ratified that convention. All the nations that signed are south of our borders.

#2 By having an abortion, the woman is permitting the fetus to exercise its "right" to freedom of movement under Article 22.

#3 Non-persons do not have rights. Ink on paper cannot magically transform a non-person into a person.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#230504
May 20, 2013
 

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Jenji wrote:
I will put in my two cents worth this way... an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure! When I started having sex as a tween I had one prego scare and that's all it took! I went to mom and dad, they took me in and I got an IUC implant. I didn't want a baby, and I would never have got an abortion, so I thought it through for all of about 10 seconds and then went and got a preventive fix offered by modern medical science! I have zero sympathy for "accidentally pregnant" girls.
Zero sympathy? Zero brains.

Sex as a tween? Where were your parents? Didn't they teach you anything? Like the fact that ALL forms of birth control can and do fail?

Frankly, I'd be very surprised if you ever thought of ANYTHING for an entire 10 seconds...

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#230506
May 20, 2013
 

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Zero sympathy? Zero brains.
Sex as a tween? Where were your parents? Didn't they teach you anything? Like the fact that ALL forms of birth control can and do fail?
Frankly, I'd be very surprised if you ever thought of ANYTHING for an entire 10 seconds...
Well said.
The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

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#230509
May 20, 2013
 
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is wife beating wrong and abortion OK?
Explain again WHY you think it's ok to abuse your spouse...

You're disgusting...

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#230510
May 20, 2013
 
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, just look at what happened today in Oklahoma City as a result of all the abortions performed there...
Tornadoes seem to have a hard-on for places like churches, schools, and trailer parks....we lost 57 Oklahomans today, and almost half of them were elementary schoolkids.

But god sees the fall of every sparrow...and their parents' pain is just part of the vast eternal plan.

Those kids must have been horrible sinners, huh??

“What is it”

Since: May 13

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#230511
May 20, 2013
 
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>You need to do some research.
Whoa! Patronizing. Are we? Well you need to calm down. I believe I made it clear that I was making a very limited point. You cannot defy law of the land lady. Fetuses DO have certain Legal rights. And I DID write that in simple English.
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>In America, a fetus is NOT considered a human being until a certain point in gestation, that point differs by state.
Very true. But why are you telling me this? I daresay I am qualified enough to understand law better than others. I read law you see.
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>It's simply proved by the fact that a woman who has an abortion is not prosecuted.
What is proved here is you either lack comprehension of issues of you did not care to read what I wrote in your haste to debunk me. Show me where have I advocated for or against abortion? You sound like a fundamentalist to me.
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>If it were considered a living human being, she would be arrested, as would the doctor.
Again. You don’t need to tell me. I know it better.
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>I suggest you look into taking a Critical Thinking class.
I suggest you look into getting basic education and English Comprehension classes.

“What is it”

Since: May 13

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#230512
May 20, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>So what happens if the fetus is miscarried??
Nothing much. Except increased medical bills.
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>How is a fetus competent to accept said bequest?
Fetus is NOT competent to accept any bequest until it’s born. However, that does not take away the fact that law recognizes bequests made in favor of fetuses. And any right inherently possesses right to decline or a possibility that a situation may never arise where the right may be claimed.

Since: Jun 12

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#230513
May 20, 2013
 

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pbfa wrote:
<quoted text>
There are no "babies" involved in abortion. A zef is removed from a woman who has decided not to carry a pregnancy to term, as is her right.
Murder is an illegal act against a born person.
Abortion is the legal termination of a pregnancy. They are two different acts, and are only considered the same thing by dishonest, inaccurate PLM folks.
Glad I could help clarify things for you. Imprecise and inaccurate language fails every time.
Very well said.

Since: Jun 12

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#230514
May 20, 2013
 

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How do these people that oppose abortion feel about a rape victims?

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