There is Everything Wrong with Abortion
LightForce

Warren, MI

#230185 May 10, 2013
ARE TOPIX PRO-CHOICERS JUST “ON THE FRINGE” FANATICALS?
Study shows that Most Americans are Against Abortion.

Gallup’s annual Values and Beliefs poll, conducted May 2-7, find 58 percent of Americans want either all or almost all abortions illegal — with 20% saying it should be illegal in all circumstances and 38% favoring it in only in a few circumstances.

Just 39 percent of Americans support all or most abortions remaining legal, with only 26% of Americans favoring legalized abortion under any circumstances (the position of Planned Parenthood and President Barack Obama) and 13% favoring legality under most circumstances.

There has been no shortage of recent evidence exposing the abortion industry for negligence and brutality. Marjorie Dannenfelser of the Susan B. Anthony List ; “The law should follow this instinctive resistance to such a dehumanizing and degrading practice. As the country’s attention is turned to this issue, we hope to see Congress address the multi-state breakdown of oversight in the abortion industry as well as the barbarism of abortions performed on children capable of feeling pain and surviving outside the womb.”

MORE TRUTH ABOT THE CONSEQUENCES OF PRO-CHOICE:
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/10/gallup-pol...
LightForce

Warren, MI

#230186 May 10, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>You are free to consider it immoral to kill a 'pre-born child'- I am free to consider it immoral to obligate others to make the choices I myself would make.
I've given birth twice.
You?
You are free to have your opinion, but what are the consequences of that opinion if actually realized? If it is “immoral to obligate others to make the choices I myself would make”, then it would also be immoral to tell me that I can’t beat my wife, or to rape women if I myself think that it is moral to do so.“Moral rights” belong to the one subjected to your “morality" and is in the subjective opinion of the one being subjected to the action, with all else being equal. If a “moral right" is there, it would be wrong for any individual or government to deny or compromise that right.

We can either choose to live in a moral society, or an immoral society, which your opinion agrees with. Once you set a precedence that it is OK to kill some human beings based on certain prejudiced criteria, then the inevitable conclusion must be that it will also be considered OK to kill other human beings based on prejudiced criteria. Your views seem to be motivated purely on the rights of women without regard to anybody else’s rights.

In this day-and-age we know that the preborn child is simply a human being at an early stage in life. So if you say that it is OK to kill that child based on a choice of the individual, then it would also be OK to kill other human beings based on the logic of that reasoning. On the other hand, if we use my reasoning, that each individual possesses certain “moral rights”, then it would also be wrong to kill anybody else for those reasons that you argue for.

Disregarding these facts only means that you are disregarding real freedom and real justice.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#230187 May 10, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
You are free to have your opinion, but what are the consequences of that opinion if actually realized? If it is “immoral to obligate others to make the choices I myself would make”, then it would also be immoral to tell me that I can’t beat my wife, or to rape women if I myself think that it is moral to do so.“Moral rights” belong to the one subjected to your “morality" and is in the subjective opinion of the one being subjected to the action, with all else being equal. If a “moral right" is there, it would be wrong for any individual or government to deny or compromise that right.
We can either choose to live in a moral society, or an immoral society, which your opinion agrees with. Once you set a precedence that it is OK to kill some human beings based on certain prejudiced criteria, then the inevitable conclusion must be that it will also be considered OK to kill other human beings based on prejudiced criteria. Your views seem to be motivated purely on the rights of women without regard to anybody else’s rights.
In this day-and-age we know that the preborn child is simply a human being at an early stage in life. So if you say that it is OK to kill that child based on a choice of the individual, then it would also be OK to kill other human beings based on the logic of that reasoning. On the other hand, if we use my reasoning, that each individual possesses certain “moral rights”, then it would also be wrong to kill anybody else for those reasons that you argue for.
Disregarding these facts only means that you are disregarding real freedom and real justice.
What you have offered, are not facts.
They are your interpretations of my morals, and their possible consequences.

Several religious sects preach that it IS moral to beat your wife, or kill your child - but both those things are illegal, as well as immoral.

Thing is, the law recognizes only born individuals, as people, and it leaves the morality of abortion up to the individual who is pregnant.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#230188 May 10, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>What you have offered, are not facts.
They are your interpretations of my morals, and their possible consequences.
Several religious sects preach that it IS moral to beat your wife, or kill your child - but both those things are illegal, as well as immoral.
Thing is, the law recognizes only born individuals, as people, and it leaves the morality of abortion up to the individual who is pregnant.
You, like all the rest on here are using the last resort of the fallacy of "appealing to the law". Because something is legal does not make it OK to take away one's "moral rights".

Your other options might be to:

1. Move to an entirely different objection, and/or

2. Respond with a complete misunderstanding of the offered rebuttal, and/or

3. Dismiss the rebuttal, and/or

4. Engage in profane/obscene/outraged discourse in order to intimidate the pro-lifer.

“Calling Out The Hermits”

Since: Apr 13

At Ricky Dicky land

#230189 May 10, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>I am big enough to say okay maybe not all men. But you have talked about your relationships with men who left you.
You have said it is not the men who are involved with abortion. You are wrong! They are the fathers of these murdered children in the womb.
They have just as much right to say they do not want that child aborted.You have never said how the father of your aborted child felt about you killing your child.I know he was gone by then because he left your sorry ass,but did he even know you were pregnant?
That I doubt very much. I stand on what I believe. You took the easy way out.That child had every right to be born. Circumstances change every day.
If you really wanted that child you would have found some way to have provided for that baby. You are nothing but a selfish bitch.Always have been and always will be.
Well said LP.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#230191 May 10, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
You, like all the rest on here are using the last resort of the fallacy of "appealing to the law". Because something is legal does not make it OK to take away one's "moral rights".
Your other options might be to:
1. Move to an entirely different objection, and/or
2. Respond with a complete misunderstanding of the offered rebuttal, and/or
3. Dismiss the rebuttal, and/or
4. Engage in profane/obscene/outraged discourse in order to intimidate the pro-lifer.
Clarifying your statement, as to whether your opinions are facts or not, does not constitute a logical fallacy.

You have the moral right to never, ever, ever, EVER, contemplate, seek, or obtain an abortion.

I have the moral right to do all three, if I feel it is necessary to my health, my well being, or my life.

The FACT that you don't agree with my moral rights, doesn't mean I don't have them.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#230192 May 10, 2013
Kullid wrote:
<quoted text>
its obvious they do.
not only have you had multiple abortions, you would do it again at The drop of a hat!!Whether it were legal or illegal. one would think that one experience would be enough to teach you to take better precautions. Its obvious that abortion is contraception for you.
Geez lady...with so much choice and information out there are contraception, you may have to use them all simultaneously since you are so darn fertile. But noooo you remain careless cos you know you can run off to the abbatoir.
Who are you to tell someone what to do with their body? What makes you think that you are intelligent enough to tell someone you don't know what they should or should not do?

Not everyone who can become pregnant is ready, willing, or able to be a mother. And very few women can go through with giving their child up for adoption.

You have some MIGHTY big cojones to criticize someone you don't know and never will.

Just because a sperm and ovum meet does NOT mean it's right to bring a child into the world. For Pete's Sake, you put more thought into what movie to watch!

Doesn't every child deserve to be loved and wanted? And planned? Parenting is a life commitment. It's something you do with great forethought and planning. Not something you do simply because birth control failed.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Columbus, OH

#230193 May 10, 2013
LightForce wrote:
ARE TOPIX PRO-CHOICERS JUST “ON THE FRINGE” FANATICALS?
Study shows that Most Americans are Against Abortion.
Gallup’s annual Values and Beliefs poll, conducted May 2-7, find 58 percent of Americans want either all or almost all abortions illegal — with 20% saying it should be illegal in all circumstances and 38% favoring it in only in a few circumstances.
Just 39 percent of Americans support all or most abortions remaining legal, with only 26% of Americans favoring legalized abortion under any circumstances (the position of Planned Parenthood and President Barack Obama) and 13% favoring legality under most circumstances.
There has been no shortage of recent evidence exposing the abortion industry for negligence and brutality. Marjorie Dannenfelser of the Susan B. Anthony List ; “The law should follow this instinctive resistance to such a dehumanizing and degrading practice. As the country’s attention is turned to this issue, we hope to see Congress address the multi-state breakdown of oversight in the abortion industry as well as the barbarism of abortions performed on children capable of feeling pain and surviving outside the womb.”
MORE TRUTH ABOT THE CONSEQUENCES OF PRO-CHOICE:
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/10/gallup-pol...
I just want to point something out to you and other "pro-life" people on here who are so committed to life. While you're sitting on here talking about the sanctity of life and blah blah blah, and especially those of you who incorporate god and god's love and how god is good and blah blah blah, I want you to take a few minutes and look up the Dnepropetrovsk 3. If you have the balls, go ahead and find the video of what these kids did to an innocent man. Then I want you to really consider how committed you are to the sanctity of life that your daily outrage is directed to women who chose to have a safe and legal abortion that involved removing a fetus that can't feel, can't think, can't hear, can't speak. Then I want you to ask yourself this: "Why am I more outraged at women having safe, legal abortions than I am about these three kids (whom I'm sure you probably have never heard of before) who committed the atrocities (I won't go into graphic detail since some people reading this may be faint of heart) and inflicted an incomprehensible amount of pain and suffering on people who could feel every bit of it? Then, for you skydaddy worshipers, I defy you to try and compare what any woman on this thread has ever done in her past with what these kids did and say that having an abortion is comparable.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#230194 May 10, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
I just want to point something out to you and other "pro-life" people on here who are so committed to life. While you're sitting on here talking about the sanctity of life and blah blah blah, and especially those of you who incorporate god and god's love and how god is good and blah blah blah, I want you to take a few minutes and look up the Dnepropetrovsk 3. If you have the balls, go ahead and find the video of what these kids did to an innocent man. Then I want you to really consider how committed you are to the sanctity of life that your daily outrage is directed to women who chose to have a safe and legal abortion that involved removing a fetus that can't feel, can't think, can't hear, can't speak. Then I want you to ask yourself this: "Why am I more outraged at women having safe, legal abortions than I am about these three kids (whom I'm sure you probably have never heard of before) who committed the atrocities (I won't go into graphic detail since some people reading this may be faint of heart) and inflicted an incomprehensible amount of pain and suffering on people who could feel every bit of it? Then, for you skydaddy worshipers, I defy you to try and compare what any woman on this thread has ever done in her past with what these kids did and say that having an abortion is comparable.
Don't hold your breath...being 'pro-life' translates only to fetus worship for these folks...they couldn't care any less than they already do, about the born, or the lives the born actually lead.

“Still not convinced”

Since: Jan 12

Reguengos De Monsaraz, Portugal

#230195 May 11, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>All she said was that she had had abortions. She said nothing about why...and she isn't obliged to justify her reasons.
But that doesn't give you carte blanche to assume she just woke up one morning, and said "I'm bored today, I think I'll go get an abortion!!"
Or that she has had them serially - for all you know, she has 6 other kids.
Just by the way?
Abortion is ALWAYS birth control...it sure doesn't qualify as contraception.
There's a difference between the two...and words have meanings.
:)
actually she did give reasons as to why. and the rest are your words not mine. cos you enjoy butting into a convo thats not your own.
i think that lady can handle her own scandal without you jumping to her rescue...she certainly has been replying to all my posts.

“Still not convinced”

Since: Jan 12

Reguengos De Monsaraz, Portugal

#230196 May 11, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
You should learn something, like reading comprehension.
I didn't say medication was the cause of my birth control's failure. I said medication is sometimes the reason for the failure of birth control. I take birth control every day. I am taking precautions. That's me being responsible. If for reason my birth control fails me again, I will consider all of my options just as I did before. But what I won't do is force myself to give birth to a child just because some nitwit like yourself says I should. It's called autonomy.
yes you did say that. and i took it from there. you cited medication as one of the reasons contraceptive fails, like i didnt know. so i said that if that was your situation(because you definitely have some reason why you would think nothing of having multiple abortions) that you should take better precautions.

Don't force yourself to give birth please! rather force yourself to never be pregnant again.

“Still not convinced”

Since: Jan 12

Reguengos De Monsaraz, Portugal

#230197 May 11, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are you to tell someone what to do with their body? What makes you think that you are intelligent enough to tell someone you don't know what they should or should not do?
Not everyone who can become pregnant is ready, willing, or able to be a mother. And very few women can go through with giving their child up for adoption.
You have some MIGHTY big cojones to criticize someone you don't know and never will.
Just because a sperm and ovum meet does NOT mean it's right to bring a child into the world. For Pete's Sake, you put more thought into what movie to watch!
Doesn't every child deserve to be loved and wanted? And planned? Parenting is a life commitment. It's something you do with great forethought and planning. Not something you do simply because birth control failed.
yes a child has all those rigts. the child also has a right to live.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#230198 May 11, 2013
QuickDraw 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Well said LP.
Thanks QuickDraw:)

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#230199 May 11, 2013
Kullid wrote:
<quoted text>
yes a child has all those rigts. the child also has a right to live.
Amen!!!

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#230200 May 11, 2013
Kullid wrote:
<quoted text>
yes a child has all those rigts. the child also has a right to live.
Show me anything with authority that says an unborn fetus has a right to live.

Note: the bible is not an authoritative source unless one chooses to believe in it.
Doctor REALITY

United States

#230201 May 11, 2013
Abortion is MURDER!!!
Doctor REALITY

United States

#230202 May 11, 2013
And I hope the state of Pennsylvania executes that stupid 'Kermit the Dog' abortion doctor!!!: http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/phillynow...

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#230203 May 11, 2013
Kullid wrote:
<quoted text>
actually she did give reasons as to why. and the rest are your words not mine. cos you enjoy butting into a convo thats not your own.
i think that lady can handle her own scandal without you jumping to her rescue...she certainly has been replying to all my posts.
Since when has 'thought' been one of your strong suits?

Public forum = public commentary.

Don't like it? Keep your musings to yourself...go back to finger-painting on your own walls, with your own excrement.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#230204 May 11, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
And I hope the state of Pennsylvania executes that stupid 'Kermit the Dog' abortion doctor!!!: http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/phillynow...
So does everyone else here.

Got any pearls of wisdom, or will you continue dropping turds of inanity??
LightForce

Warren, MI

#230205 May 11, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me where I said we should kill everyone who is unwanted, poor or less important.
You are not reading what I am writing.
Read this next statement word for word. Don't put your own meaning on my words.
If a woman is pregnant and KNOWS she cannot be the mother that child deserves, and KNOWS she cannot give the child up for adoption, then she is making the responsible choice by having an abortion.
In that statement, I address EACH of her three choices.
Have the child and raise it.
Have the child and give it up for adoption.
Have an abortion.
I don't make decisions for ANYONE but me. I don't comment on what I think someone else should have done.
I only make decisions for ME and MY BODY.
Each human being is allowed to make decisions for THEM and THEIR body.
When another being that is 100% dependent upon THEIR BODY exists INSIDE their body, then they also make decisions for THAT BEING. Just as we make a choice to bring a child into the world, we can make a choice NOT to.
It is up to each individual person.
All I want is for those THREE CHOICES to remain.
Can you comprehend that?
Mamma-san:“Read this next statement word for word. Don't put your own meaning on my words.

If a woman is pregnant and KNOWS she cannot be the mother that child deserves, and KNOWS she cannot give the child up for adoption, then she is making the responsible choice by having an abortion.”

Translation:
If a woman has a child and knows that she is not a good mother, and is also too selfish and jealous to let somebody else take care of it, she is being a good mother to kill the child.
That’s exactly what you are saying.

Mamma-san:“In that statement, I address EACH of her three choices.

Have the child and raise it.
Have the child and give it up for adoption.
Have an abortion.”

Translation:
In that statement, I address EACH of her three choices.

Have the child and raise it.
Have the child and give it up for adoption.
Kill the child.
Exactly what you are saying!

Mamma-san:“I don't make decisions for ANYONE but me. I don't comment on what I think someone else should have done.

I only make decisions for ME and MY BODY.

Each human being is allowed to make decisions for THEM and THEIR body.

When another being that is 100% dependent upon THEIR BODY exists INSIDE their body, then they also make decisions for THAT BEING. Just as we make a choice to bring a child into the world, we can make a choice NOT to.

It is up to each individual person.”

Translation:
I am too much of a coward to to defend the rights of a preborn child.
That’s exactly what you are saying. Show me where I am wrong.

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