There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229866 May 1, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>'
You definitely like throwing the word "selfish" around which I find profoundly hypocritical.
1. You USED a pregnancy to get out of your father's house.
2. You allowed your children to see you physically abused.
3. You faked suicide attempts numerous times
4. You tried to commit suicide after your (supposed) daughter was (supposedly) killed, leaving your children with an abusive father.
Helluva lot of selfish behavior there to be calling someone else selfish, when their ONLY thought was to protect and nurture her existing children.
All in the past,you sure like living in the past don't you? Isn't it funny how you brought up adopting a supposedly daughter? Did it clear your sick mind and think it would ease your conscience killing your baby in the womb?

Oh wait you have no conscience.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229867 May 1, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>All in the past,you sure like living in the past don't you? Isn't it funny how you brought up adopting a supposedly daughter? Did it clear your sick mind and think it would ease your conscience killing your baby in the womb?
Oh wait you have no conscience.
All in the past? My abortion was IN THE PAST. Yet you won't leave that alone.

Hypocrite!

You've lied so often and so much, I have my doubts that you ever had a *supposed* daughter or that she *supposedly* died.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229868 May 1, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
All in the past? My abortion was IN THE PAST. Yet you won't leave that alone.
Hypocrite!
You've lied so often and so much, I have my doubts that you ever had a *supposed* daughter or that she *supposedly* died.
Or that anyone *supposedly* cares.

I still don't know why you keep egging that withered old crone on...you aren't getting anywhere, responding to the frigid, frightened botch, and frankly, you're enabling her misanthropy too. She's going to continue whacking the dead mule of your past, as long as you give her feedback. It's an exercise in futility.

Just saying.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229869 May 1, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Or that anyone *supposedly* cares.
I still don't know why you keep egging that withered old crone on...you aren't getting anywhere, responding to the frigid, frightened botch, and frankly, you're enabling her misanthropy too. She's going to continue whacking the dead mule of your past, as long as you give her feedback. It's an exercise in futility.
Just saying.
Some day, when I have time, I'll dig up some examples of how nasty and twisted she can be when I "ignore" her.

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#229870 May 1, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>All in the past,you sure like living in the past don't you? Isn't it funny how you brought up adopting a supposedly daughter? Did it clear your sick mind and think it would ease your conscience killing your baby in the womb?
Oh wait you have no conscience.
Where do you get the gall to accuse her of living in the past when it's all you talk about?
You are such a waste of oxygen and space, it's too bad you didn't succeed with those faked attempts.
The world would be a better place without you.
Hypocrite.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229871 May 1, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Some day, when I have time, I'll dig up some examples of how nasty and twisted she can be when I "ignore" her.
Maybe, if you would *continue* to ignore her, she'd choke on her own bile, and remove herself from the equation.

Just a thought....
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229872 May 1, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
The fruit was expelled, yet no mischief ensues. Prmature births did NOT survive, which means that the fetus did not become a child, it went from being a wad of goo to being a decaying wad of goo. HONEST theologians do not see any ambiguity here, it is only if their views on abortion are brought into the discussion does it become muddled, and then only by their wishful thinking. While the Didache is clear (at least in that fragment of a quote) it is also meaningless in that it does NOT get to redefine what is or is not a sin in Biblical terms. And, as I posted earlier, Tertullian and St. Augustine both agree that abortion can be an acceptable course of action.
Do try to understand one important fact: I would not have touched Biblical argument unless I felt that it suppored my 100%
Let’s first look at the laws for when somebody is killed, shall we?

Exodus 21:12-14

(12) Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.
(13) However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate.
(14) But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.

The first thing to notice in this section of Scripture is that God commands that anyone who kills a person on purpose should be put to death. Also, note that God differentiates between murder and accidental killing, which we call “manslaughter.” Accidental killing is different than murder, and it is treated differently under God’s law. Notice in verse 13 that if someone killed another accidentally, God would designate a place of refuge for the accused to flee for protection. That was necessary because it was the custom in the ancient world (and still is in the modern world in some places) that a family member would avenge the death of another family member.

Now Exodus 21:22

"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.

Let’s just suppose that you are actually correct, and this verse means that the child is accidentally killed and the killer is only fined. Shouldn’t the man have been taken to a place of refuge to escape retribution from the father and not fined, according to Exodus 21:13?

This would be a case somewhere in the middle where it wasn’t quite accidental or quite premeditated. Therefore the need to separate this particularly unusual scenario from other types of killings. Come to think of it, do you remember this ever happening at all?

Of course different Bibles have interpreted this scripture differently, and each Bible’s version has in itself different interpretations. Any way you want to look at it though, it certainly does not prove that abortion is OK’d by God. At the very least it definitely shows that the preborn child is viewed as having significant value in the Bible.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229873 May 1, 2013
Are “abortion doctors” nothing more than just baby-killers?

Leading pro-life advocates joined a rally today at the offices of abortion doctor Cesare Santangelo of Washington, D.C, who was exposed on a recent undercover video telling a 24-week pregnant woman
that in the unlikely event that an abortion resulted in a live birth,“we would not help it.”

“Technically, you know, legally, we would be obligated to help it, you know, to survive, but it probably wouldn’t,” he said in a way to reassure the woman who was working for the undercover group Live Action.

SEE MORE HERE: http://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/01/rally-expo...
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229874 May 1, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
In some cases they don't.
I know the answer to this one - when they contradict with your own self-interest?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#229875 May 1, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Let’s first look at the laws for when somebody is killed, shall we?
Exodus 21:12-14
(12) Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.
(13) However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate.
(14) But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.
The first thing to notice in this section of Scripture is that God commands that anyone who kills a person on purpose should be put to death. Also, note that God differentiates between murder and accidental killing, which we call “manslaughter.” Accidental killing is different than murder, and it is treated differently under God’s law. Notice in verse 13 that if someone killed another accidentally, God would designate a place of refuge for the accused to flee for protection. That was necessary because it was the custom in the ancient world (and still is in the modern world in some places) that a family member would avenge the death of another family member.
Now Exodus 21:22
"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.
Let’s just suppose that you are actually correct, and this verse means that the child is accidentally killed and the killer is only fined. Shouldn’t the man have been taken to a place of refuge to escape retribution from the father and not fined, according to Exodus 21:13?
This would be a case somewhere in the middle where it wasn’t quite accidental or quite premeditated. Therefore the need to separate this particularly unusual scenario from other types of killings. Come to think of it, do you remember this ever happening at all?
Of course different Bibles have interpreted this scripture differently, and each Bible’s version has in itself different interpretations. Any way you want to look at it though, it certainly does not prove that abortion is OK’d by God. At the very least it definitely shows that the preborn child is viewed as having significant value in the Bible.
Thank you for proving MY point. The fact that the Bible does not treat it as either a murder OR an accidental death just shows that it was NOT A "DEATH" AT ALL. It was an aborted fetus, not a child. If someone had killed a child, then and only then would it have been either murder (if deliberate) or manslaughter (if accidental). Instead, the lost fruit is just a few shekels in the husband's pocket.

Oh, and the fact that different translations say different things just goes to prove that you can only really know what the Bible says if you read it in the original Hebrew. Translations ALWAYS make mistakes.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229876 May 1, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for proving MY point. The fact that the Bible does not treat it as either a murder OR an accidental death just shows that it was NOT A "DEATH" AT ALL. It was an aborted fetus, not a child. If someone had killed a child, then and only then would it have been either murder (if deliberate) or manslaughter (if accidental). Instead, the lost fruit is just a few shekels in the husband's pocket.
Oh, and the fact that different translations say different things just goes to prove that you can only really know what the Bible says if you read it in the original Hebrew. Translations ALWAYS make mistakes.
I understand that it may be a little too hard for you to understand at first, but please try to study this a little more, and then you will see how silly your reply was here. It was obviously treated as more serious than just an accidental killing because of the fine that was imposed that typically would be more than just a "few shiings". Plus the perpetrator was not given any protection from retaliation by the father for the killing.

This is all dependant of course on the slim chance that your original hypothesis was correct.
The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

#229877 May 1, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>'
You definitely like throwing the word "selfish" around which I find profoundly hypocritical.
1. You USED a pregnancy to get out of your father's house.
2. You allowed your children to see you physically abused.
3. You faked suicide attempts numerous times
4. You tried to commit suicide after your (supposed) daughter was (supposedly) killed, leaving your children with an abusive father.
Helluva lot of selfish behavior there to be calling someone else selfish, when their ONLY thought was to protect and nurture her existing children.
See, normally I'd be sad about a woman being in an abusive relationship, but the fact remains that woman of her "calibre" -- using the abuse perpetrated against her as a way to gain pity votes, using that abuse as a platform to criticise pro choice women, railing against women's rights and willfully ignorant of religion in today's context -- is one of utmost moral repugnance.

Since: Jul 10

Minneapolis, MN

#229878 May 1, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Some day, when I have time, I'll dig up some examples of how nasty and twisted she can be when I "ignore" her.
it seems every section of topix has it's own set of trolls.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229879 May 2, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
All in the past? My abortion was IN THE PAST. Yet you won't leave that alone.
Hypocrite!
You've lied so often and so much, I have my doubts that you ever had a *supposed* daughter or that she *supposedly* died.
Well geez this thread is about Everything being wrong with abortion.Do you honestly think I care that you don't believe I lost my Jennifer?
I know I did and thats all that matters.
I won't leave anyone alone who has killed their child in the womb.
And you haven't lied? Now thats funny.
You are the hypocrite!

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229880 May 2, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Well geez this thread is about Everything being wrong with abortion.Do you honestly think I care that you don't believe I lost my Jennifer?
I know I did and thats all that matters.
I won't leave anyone alone who has killed their child in the womb.
And you haven't lied? Now thats funny.
You are the hypocrite!
Once again, do elaborate on what I supposedly lied about. You keep making the accusation, but aren't forthcoming about exactly what.

All that tactic does is make you appear an even bigger liar.

You do know that your behaviour against women who have had abortions is abusive. Right?

That's pretty hypocritical considering you claim to be abused.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229881 May 2, 2013
The Advocate wrote:
<quoted text>
See, normally I'd be sad about a woman being in an abusive relationship, but the fact remains that woman of her "calibre" -- using the abuse perpetrated against her as a way to gain pity votes, using that abuse as a platform to criticise pro choice women, railing against women's rights and willfully ignorant of religion in today's context -- is one of utmost moral repugnance.
Well put. I'd question the abuse claim, but her then-husband admitted it did happen and stated he was very sorry it had gone that far.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229882 May 2, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
I know the answer to this one - when they contradict with your own self-interest?
Who knows. We all make up our own rules and decide which social rules to abide by.
AHitler

Warren, MI

#229884 May 2, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Who knows. We all make up our own rules and decide which social rules to abide by.
Got it. You/we can violate the rights of others as long as you/we are stronger than they are. That makes a lot of sense to me too. It is not truth that matters, but victory. Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229886 May 2, 2013
PLANNED PARENTHOOD, PRO-CHOICE OR PRO-PROFIT?

Two years ago, the Food and Drug Administration quietly released a report about the deaths of and injuries to women from the dangerous RU 486 abortion drug and the Obama administration did nothing to make the information available to women. The report indicates 14 women in the United States alone have died from using the mifepristone abortion drug and 2,207 women have been injured by it.

Of the women experiencing medical and physical problems resulting from the abortion drug, 612 women required hospitalizations, 339 experienced blood loss significant enough to require a transfusion, 256 experienced infections and 48 women experienced what the FDA labeled as “severe infections.” Given that the RU 486 abortion drug caused sepsis, a potentially lethal infection that resulted in the deaths of women from around the world, the “serious infections” were very likely life-threatening situations.

READ MORE: http://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/01/indiana-go...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#229887 May 2, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand that it may be a little too hard for you to understand at first, but please try to study this a little more, and then you will see how silly your reply was here. It was obviously treated as more serious than just an accidental killing because of the fine that was imposed that typically would be more than just a "few shiings". Plus the perpetrator was not given any protection from retaliation by the father for the killing.
This is all dependant of course on the slim chance that your original hypothesis was correct.
What planet are you on?

This is NOT more serious than an accidental killing. In an accidental killing, the perpetrator had to flee for his LIFE, abandoning hearth and home, kith and kin, hoping that he could manage to reach a sanctuary city before the victim's family caught up to him. If they did, then he was most likely going to be killed in retribution.

Once the killer reached a place of sanctuary, he still had to appear before the court and convince them that he was innocent of murder - he had to prove that it was an accidental killing.

On the other hand, if a man induced an abortion, there was no need to flee to a sanctuary city, all he had to do was take some time and appear before the judge so that legal forms could be fulfilled and pay those few shekels.(BTW, were you trying to write "shillings"?) There was no threat of retaliation from which he needed to flee.

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