There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

Since: Jul 10

Minneapolis, MN

#229821 Apr 29, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Show how that scripture you're speaking of even applies to abortion first. Even on the rare chance that it does, Old Testament scriptures, or laws do not apply to Christian beliefs.
I don't like to even bring religion into the abortion argument, because it is very subjective in it's interpretations.
tough stuff. but the OT is just as much a part of the bible as the NT is.
.
Jesus dId NOT abolish the old law aka the OT. in fact he said he came ti FULFILL it. as in Matt 5:17-18
[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
.
this is the SAME phrasing in both the KJV and the Douay-Rheims bible.
as well as this:
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
.
meaning if you do NOT live according to the OT as well as the NT. according to Jesus and the Bible. no hope for ya......
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229822 Apr 29, 2013
Sangelia wrote:
<quoted text>
tough stuff. but the OT is just as much a part of the bible as the NT is.
.
Jesus dId NOT abolish the old law aka the OT. in fact he said he came ti FULFILL it. as in Matt 5:17-18
[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
.
this is the SAME phrasing in both the KJV and the Douay-Rheims bible.
as well as this:
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
.
meaning if you do NOT live according to the OT as well as the NT. according to Jesus and the Bible. no hope for ya......
Did you say that Jesus came to fulfill the law? Keep studying.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229823 Apr 29, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
DON'T do that when I am reading in the library at my son's school. The librarian does not like me setting a bad example to the kids by breaking out in great peals of laughter.
OK, let’s see how your commentary compares with somebody who spent most of their life studying the Bible – John Gill.
If men strive
Quarrel and fight with one another.
and hurt a woman with child;
who being the wife of one of them, tries to part them, or help her husband; but the other, instead of striking his antagonist as he intended, gives her a blow.
so that her fruit depart from her;
or, "her children go forth", out of her womb, as she may have more than one; through the fright of the quarrel, and fear of her husband being hurt, and the blow she received by interposing, might miscarry, or, falling into labor, come before her time, and bring forth her offspring sooner than expected.
and yet no mischief follow:
to her, but it may refer both to the woman and her offspring, and not only to the death of them, but to any hurt or damage to either of them, though now there is none of any sort,
he shall surely be punished;
that is, be fined for striking the woman, and hastening the childbirth.

As you can see, we cannot make any assertions based on these scriptures alone. But when we compare it with other scriptures from the Bible, we see that the preborn child is viewed as having great value.

I want to point out though, that this is not a religious debate, but a debate about the killing of millions of children each year, and the reasons for it. So I’d rather stay on topic, but I still hate to see such false statements just thrown out here without at least saying something.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229824 Apr 30, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, motherhood can be VERY hard, especially for a girl or young woman who NEVER wanted pregnancy or children in the first place. However, many girls/women are PRESSURED or guilted into having children, especially by backward religious communities that say "birth control is a sin" and other such nonsense.
Thank goodness YOU don't get to make sexual and reproductive decisions for anyone but yourself. A girl/woman can reject motherhood for ANY reason, including the most basic one; she doesn't want the hardships and responsibilities it involves. Don't like girls/women rejecting motherhood? Too bleeping bad. It isn't YOUR call to make.
It isn't yours either.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229826 Apr 30, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe YOU don't "kill them in the womb" but you don't get to make choices or pass judgement on anyone else.
Abortion might be a "selfish decision" to you. Bully for you. But it's your OPINION, therefore valid ONLY to you.
I'm not justifying my decisions. I don't have to. You don't get to pass judgment on me.
Isn't it great how that works?
And since I don't believe in hell, you can hope all you want. But it's not going to happen.
You never know,it just might.
Ocean56

AOL

#229827 Apr 30, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
I know I can't take all the good in the world. I am not blinded to the children who aren't wanted but I do know there are many children despite what their parents felt who still get through life just fine. maybe they are stronger for it. Who knows? Having children who won't be loved is not the answer. Many parents who have children think they don't want them but something kicks in with them and they are so appreciative that they had them.
Yes, that is true. And then there's the other side; the mothers who are NOT appreciative that they had their children. They bitterly REGRET having their children and only wish they had their "old life" (the one WITHOUT kids) back. The story I posted previously, from the mom who DOES regret having her kids, was one among many.

Again, motherhood is OPTIONAL, not required or obligatory. If some women choose to reject motherhood for any reason, that is THEIR decision, and none of your business.
Ocean56

AOL

#229828 Apr 30, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
It isn't yours either.
Sure it is, if it's MY pregnancy. Thank goodness that isn't the case, as getting pregnant again would be my worst nightmare.

For me, PREGNANCY SUCKS, and I'm very grateful for the availability of the BC which has kept me pregnancy-FREE the last 15+ years. I so love NOT being pregnant.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229829 Apr 30, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure it is, if it's MY pregnancy. Thank goodness that isn't the case, as getting pregnant again would be my worst nightmare.
For me, PREGNANCY SUCKS, and I'm very grateful for the availability of the BC which has kept me pregnancy-FREE the last 15+ years. I so love NOT being pregnant.
So do I Ocean,been there done that and now just enjoying my grandkids.I loved being pregnant but am glad I can't get pregnant anymore.

Have a good day.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229830 Apr 30, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, that is true. And then there's the other side; the mothers who are NOT appreciative that they had their children. They bitterly REGRET having their children and only wish they had their "old life" (the one WITHOUT kids) back. The story I posted previously, from the mom who DOES regret having her kids, was one among many.
Again, motherhood is OPTIONAL, not required or obligatory. If some women choose to reject motherhood for any reason, that is THEIR decision, and none of your business.
I understand there are women out there who regret being pregnant and having children but and this is just my opinion,once born be responsible and love them and nuture them.Thats all I am saying really.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229831 Apr 30, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>You never know,it just might.
I'm not in the least worried.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229832 Apr 30, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>I understand there are women out there who regret being pregnant and having children but and this is just my opinion,once born be responsible and love them and nuture them.Thats all I am saying really.
Men should be responsible for their children too, but they don't.

It's been happening as long as people have been having children.

You cannot force anyone to be responsible for something as simple as brushing their teeth every day,let alone taking care of children.

If they know they can't be responsible, then be responsible and prevent the birth of an unwanted child.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229833 Apr 30, 2013
sorry, that was a really convoluted post! I think I need some caffeine. I'll try again later.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229834 Apr 30, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
sorry, that was a really convoluted post! I think I need some caffeine. I'll try again later.
Don't bother. I know your feelings on killing a baby in the womb. Save your breath.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229835 Apr 30, 2013
Men should be responsible for their born children, as should the women who bear those children. For whatever reason, though, the onus of caring for children seems to fall more heavily on women.

No one can be forced to be responsible for anything. To expect a woman with no maternal instinct to suddenly develop enough to care for an infant is ridiculous.

An infant is helpless and needs care 24/7, yet the Pro-Fetus league doesn't take that into consideration. They use that helpless infant as a tool to subjugate women and to push their own agenda of male chauvinism.

If they CARED about the infant, any infant, they'd want children to be loved and wanted from conception. Instead, they focus on the 9 months prior to birth, and never consider the needs, or the condition of the infant AFTER birth.

They would insist no child be born unwanted or unloved, and would spend their energy and money on BORN, EXISTING children who desperately need help today. Instead, they spend their energy berating women for having sex, and insisting they retain a pregnancy, without considering if that woman is equipped mentally, emotionally, or financially to care for a child.
Ocean56

AOL

#229836 Apr 30, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
I understand there are women out there who regret being pregnant and having children but and this is just my opinion,once born be responsible and love them and nuture them.Thats all I am saying really.
No, you have ALSO said that having an abortion, long before there's any baby or child involved, is somehow a "bad" thing. That is also your OPINION, not fact, and it's an opinion I don't agree with.

Given the choice between an abortion of a clearly unwanted pregnancy to a woman who doesn't like or want children, and forcing such a woman to have a child she never wanted, I'll choose the abortion every time. Not YOUR pregnancy? Not your decision. Deal with it.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229837 Apr 30, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>They aren't children. I am against the unlawful killing of living breathing human beings.
You, on the other hand, don't give a fig about them once they're born, you only care about forcing women to gestate whether they want to or not.
Ignorant pile of waste, just like lippy.
But if it was legal it would be OK?

What would make you think that I want to force a woman to gestate if I never even forced her to have sex or not? The truth is that you just don’t want to give the child a choice to live. You’re anti-choice - I’m pro-choice.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229838 Apr 30, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
Men should be responsible for their born children, as should the women who bear those children. For whatever reason, though, the onus of caring for children seems to fall more heavily on women.
No one can be forced to be responsible for anything. To expect a woman with no maternal instinct to suddenly develop enough to care for an infant is ridiculous.
An infant is helpless and needs care 24/7, yet the Pro-Fetus league doesn't take that into consideration. They use that helpless infant as a tool to subjugate women and to push their own agenda of male chauvinism.
If they CARED about the infant, any infant, they'd want children to be loved and wanted from conception. Instead, they focus on the 9 months prior to birth, and never consider the needs, or the condition of the infant AFTER birth.
They would insist no child be born unwanted or unloved, and would spend their energy and money on BORN, EXISTING children who desperately need help today. Instead, they spend their energy berating women for having sex, and insisting they retain a pregnancy, without considering if that woman is equipped mentally, emotionally, or financially to care for a child.
Well I have to say some of the stuff you say makes sense but some doesn't. I don't just care about the nine months. I care very much about the needs of that baby after born. But I will also say many women who think they don't want that child fall in love with that baby after born. Maybe it is rough for them but there is lots of help out there. But I will also say not all men say they don't want the responsibility,some step up to the plate and are very responsible. I will never in my life say abortion is the most loving thing you could do. And yes I will bring God into it. God created that little baby and knew from the moment of conception what his plans were for that baby.For a woman to interfere with his plan is IMO just pure selfish.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229839 Apr 30, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Well I have to say some of the stuff you say makes sense but some doesn't. I don't just care about the nine months. I care very much about the needs of that baby after born. But I will also say many women who think they don't want that child fall in love with that baby after born. Maybe it is rough for them but there is lots of help out there. But I will also say not all men say they don't want the responsibility,some step up to the plate and are very responsible. I will never in my life say abortion is the most loving thing you could do. And yes I will bring God into it. God created that little baby and knew from the moment of conception what his plans were for that baby.For a woman to interfere with his plan is IMO just pure selfish.
I didn't say ALL women, nor did I say ALL men. Re-read the post for comprehension.

And those women who think they might fall in love with that baby, more power to them for having the baby.

But just because SOME might, does NOT mean every woman should carry EVERY pregnancy to term. There ARE women with no maternal instinct, and should they fall pregnant, they have to do the most responsible thing for them AND for any possible child. If that is giving it up for adoption, then do that. IF it's having an abortion, then do that.

God is your belief. It applies only to you.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229840 Apr 30, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, let’s see how your commentary compares with somebody who spent most of their life studying the Bible – John Gill.
Naah. Let's not, and say we did.

Liam is right, you're wrong, and so is Gill.

End of story.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229841 Apr 30, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Well I have to say some of the stuff you say makes sense but some doesn't. I don't just care about the nine months. I care very much about the needs of that baby after born. But I will also say many women who think they don't want that child fall in love with that baby after born. Maybe it is rough for them but there is lots of help out there. But I will also say not all men say they don't want the responsibility,some step up to the plate and are very responsible. I will never in my life say abortion is the most loving thing you could do. And yes I will bring God into it. God created that little baby and knew from the moment of conception what his plans were for that baby.For a woman to interfere with his plan is IMO just pure selfish.
How are you to know that 'his plan' doesn't include abortion?

After all, can mere humans, pitiful creatures that we are, actually THWART the plans of an omniscient omnipresent GOD???

"Interfere with God's plan" sounds like an impossible concept, to me - He's GOD. We can only carry out HIS PLAN...and we do.

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