LightForce

Warren, MI

#229631 Apr 23, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's your reasonable answer:
"...a parent who wants to dis their child, legitimizing the killing of the child before leaving for a nice, quiet vacation."
wouldn't be a parent at all.
Why would you obligate a child be born to this miserable excuse for parents? Sounds like you hate children, and wish them miserable lives.
" To you, does this sound like something that a responsible, trustworthy adult might do?" Well, no. Should we make sure folks who aren't 'responsible and trustworthy' become parents....or even allow them to?
If we took away the choice to gestate from people like this, we'd have a lot fewer unwanted kids...
But that's not part of your agenda, because you don't care about the kids. Your only wishes are to control the uterus, worship the fetus, and congratulate yourself on having 'stood up for the unborn'.
In your world, the born are collateral damage.
In my world we don’t disregard the rights of certain “classes” of people based on where they may reside, or at what stage they are in their development.

Who said that the parent would also be the caregiver? You’re starting right off the bat with a false assumption rather than a fact.

Your statements rather are an indication to me of the pro-death values that you hold, and that you just assume that we as a society should take no responsibility to protect the weak, and the “less important”. But in a morally just society we should always try to defend the rights of the defenseless, and we shouldn’t just let them be victimized without trying to help them. You pointing out that life may be difficult in no way defends killing a child to protect them from it. That must be the pro-deather version of “tough love”. Your argument needs at least something with a little bit sounder basis for it. You could start by answering the first two questions that I posed in the previous post. I’m looking forward to hearing back.

On a side issue, I’m also not sure that this pro-death attitude of yours doesn’t all stem from your deep-seated hatred towards men.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229632 Apr 23, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>He was performing abortions in a filthy clinic with unsterile instruments. He was using unqualified assistants, and was breaking numerous other laws.
He should have been caught years ago.
You’re trying to avoid the obvious contradiction, which could be seen by others as “passive hypocrisy”, unless of course you believe that it is OK for someone to kill a born child too. It was illegal because he killed them after they were born. But if he would have done his job properly and killed them just before that, it would have been legal - a hypocritical conclusion based on false logic.
The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

#229633 Apr 23, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
You’re trying to avoid the obvious contradiction, which could be seen by others as “passive hypocrisy”, unless of course you believe that it is OK for someone to kill a born child too. It was illegal because he killed them after they were born. But if he would have done his job properly and killed them just before that, it would have been legal - a hypocritical conclusion based on false logic.
You're missing the point. The point being that he was an unregistered doctor who had little to no knowledge of how to perform a correct abortion and operated a racist, unsanitary establishment -- he was able to get away with it because he was cheap and made himself accessible to poor, desperate women (among his clients were a 14 year old girl and a Nepalese immigrant, who died) who would've survived had they had the knowledge and security to go to a safer, registered clinic, despite many wanting late term abortions.

The reasons for wanting a late term abortion (as polled in the US by the Guttmacher Institute) are as follows:

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

Abortion would certainly be much safer and there wouldn't be many doctors like that if it were legalised and regulated.
The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

#229634 Apr 23, 2013
QuickDraw 1 wrote:
<quoted text> Is that the only pathetic excuse you can come up with oh ignorant one? Really? How do you know what the future holds for these innocent lives? And yes they ARE life whether you want to face it or not.
Who the hell are you to predict what might happen or might not happen? That's not for you or any woman to decide. Are you a fortune teller mamma-san? Fortune tellers are sinners as well. Another notch on your belt.
As far as a woman being punished for sex, that's a crock of shit. Keep your damn legs closed period and you won't get yourself into trouble. If woman wants to take it upon herself to spread her legs about, then she should she should take it upon herself to be respsonsible for the possible outcome of her actions. You cannot take responsibility to raise a child? ADOPTION IS THE OPTION....ABORTION IS MURDER. Don't like it, tough shit. It's the LAW of God. Screw man made law, it's means nothing in the eyes of God.
I care about life, not about what may or may not happen. I leave it all to God. It's in His Hands. It's called faith, something you lack and cannot comprehend. Get a conscience already. Your excuses are getting so old.
Ad hominem and religious drivel won't get you anywhere, "Quickie." Stop trying to own every uterus in existance and respect the fact that women have the RIGHT to make decisions over whether or not they want to have children.

“Calling Out The Hermits”

Since: Apr 13

At Ricky Dicky land

#229635 Apr 23, 2013
The Advocate wrote:
<quoted text>
Ad hominem and religious drivel won't get you anywhere, "Quickie." Stop trying to own every uterus in existance and respect the fact that women have the RIGHT to make decisions over whether or not they want to have children.
Uh huh, we'll see who'll be driveling come judgement day "miss defecate." Stop your blithering disrespect for life and own up to the fact that it's not a woman's right in the Eyes of God. Ignorance and arrogance are cousin to evil. Wipe your conscience.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229636 Apr 24, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Common sense really isn't your forte', is it?
I guess you'd know more about that than I would. Your lack of common sense on the subject of abortion is loud and clear.Let me ask you a question. Do you think about the child you murdered in the womb on what would have been that childs birthday?
Do you think about what that child would have been in this world had you let it live? Because of your choice you never got to hear that childs first words,birthday parties, first day of school,graduation,college,poss ible marriage,grandchildren?
Of course you don't because you have no conscience. You are a coldhearted b*tch.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229637 Apr 24, 2013
QuickDraw 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Uh huh, we'll see who'll be driveling come judgement day "miss defecate." Stop your blithering disrespect for life and own up to the fact that it's not a woman's right in the Eyes of God. Ignorance and arrogance are cousin to evil. Wipe your conscience.
'God' is the ultimate abortionist.

And fundies always get to the threats.

ALWAYS.

I don't fear your boogeyman's judgment, pookie. Sorry about your luck - but not very.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229638 Apr 24, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
In my world we don’t disregard the rights of certain “classes” of people based on where they may reside, or at what stage they are in their development.
Who said that the parent would also be the caregiver? You’re starting right off the bat with a false assumption rather than a fact.
Your statements rather are an indication to me of the pro-death values that you hold, and that you just assume that we as a society should take no responsibility to protect the weak, and the “less important”. But in a morally just society we should always try to defend the rights of the defenseless, and we shouldn’t just let them be victimized without trying to help them. You pointing out that life may be difficult in no way defends killing a child to protect them from it. That must be the pro-deather version of “tough love”. Your argument needs at least something with a little bit sounder basis for it. You could start by answering the first two questions that I posed in the previous post. I’m looking forward to hearing back.
On a side issue, I’m also not sure that this pro-death attitude of yours doesn’t all stem from your deep-seated hatred towards men.
I love men! What deep-seated hatred toward men are you talking about?

I don't harbor hatred for anyone - but you disgust me.

Just because you loathe, fear, and despise women who don't conform to your 'just a vessel' meme, doesn't mean I hate men.

Nice try, though.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229639 Apr 24, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
You’re trying to avoid the obvious contradiction, which could be seen by others as “passive hypocrisy”, unless of course you believe that it is OK for someone to kill a born child too. It was illegal because he killed them after they were born. But if he would have done his job properly and killed them just before that, it would have been legal - a hypocritical conclusion based on false logic.
My views on this are already known here.

Once born, a person has the right to life.

Whatever your feelings may be on my stance, you are welcome to your opinion.

Next...

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229640 Apr 24, 2013
QuickDraw 1 wrote:
<quoted text> Is that the only pathetic excuse you can come up with oh ignorant one? Really? How do you know what the future holds for these innocent lives? And yes they ARE life whether you want to face it or not.
Who the hell are you to predict what might happen or might not happen? That's not for you or any woman to decide. Are you a fortune teller mamma-san? Fortune tellers are sinners as well. Another notch on your belt.
As far as a woman being punished for sex, that's a crock of shit. Keep your damn legs closed period and you won't get yourself into trouble. If woman wants to take it upon herself to spread her legs about, then she should she should take it upon herself to be respsonsible for the possible outcome of her actions. You cannot take responsibility to raise a child? ADOPTION IS THE OPTION....ABORTION IS MURDER. Don't like it, tough shit. It's the LAW of God. Screw man made law, it's means nothing in the eyes of God.
I care about life, not about what may or may not happen. I leave it all to God. It's in His Hands. It's called faith, something you lack and cannot comprehend. Get a conscience already. Your excuses are getting so old.
And guess what? We don't give a sh*t about your opinion and will do whatever we like with our bodies? Don't like it? Tough sh*t. We don't care. We'll continue not to care for as long as we live. There's nothing you can do about it and we don't fear any repercussion from some man-made god you keep spouting on about.

If it's in "his" hands, then he created it. God in the bible is the ultimate abortionist and even regretted making man, thus aborting them. It's in there. Go see for yourself.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229641 Apr 24, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
And guess what? We don't give a sh*t about your opinion and will do whatever we like with our bodies? Don't like it? Tough sh*t. We don't care. We'll continue not to care for as long as we live. There's nothing you can do about it and we don't fear any repercussion from some man-made god you keep spouting on about.
If it's in "his" hands, then he created it. God in the bible is the ultimate abortionist and even regretted making man, thus aborting them. It's in there. Go see for yourself.
They don't actually READ the Bible, you know. That would be cheating.

I don't believe the majority of them have EVER read it at all, much less the way through, or understand even 1/12th of it. If they had, or could, they'd know it for the contradictory mass of peoples' opinions, that it is.

If they read it, they'd realize the 'god' it alludes to, hates them. That it created them,'in its own image' no less, and then proceeds to punish them for being what it created.

They'd realize they've allowed it to enslave them to their age-old superstitions and terrors. That it makes no logical sense. That it benefits a small collection of a few powerful individuals, for the herd to blindly follow a 'religion'.

And they have no intention of reading it.

They just continue to thump it.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229642 Apr 24, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>They don't actually READ the Bible, you know. That would be cheating.
I don't believe the majority of them have EVER read it at all, much less the way through, or understand even 1/12th of it. If they had, or could, they'd know it for the contradictory mass of peoples' opinions, that it is.
If they read it, they'd realize the 'god' it alludes to, hates them. That it created them,'in its own image' no less, and then proceeds to punish them for being what it created.
They'd realize they've allowed it to enslave them to their age-old superstitions and terrors. That it makes no logical sense. That it benefits a small collection of a few powerful individuals, for the herd to blindly follow a 'religion'.
And they have no intention of reading it.
They just continue to thump it.
They read the parts they feel justify their actions. These people are no different than fundamentalist Muslims who disregard the rest of the Quran and only adhere to the parts that allow them to act like maniacal idiots.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229643 Apr 24, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
They read the parts they feel justify their actions. These people are no different than fundamentalist Muslims who disregard the rest of the Quran and only adhere to the parts that allow them to act like maniacal idiots.
Pretty sure those 'parts' have been read TO them. And actualized by the folks around them, and codified by the folks that do the reading, and allowed to ferment in their brains, unchecked, for most of their adulthoods.

It's deliberate ignorance - which is what the Bible starts off recommending: "And they ate of the tree of knowledge, and God condemned them to misery and pain, in all their generations, forever after."

If man had just remained as ignorant as he was supposedly created to be, there would still just be Adam And Eve. Who would have died childless. Because they never had sex. Because it was 'against God'.

Gimme a break.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229644 Apr 24, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>He was performing abortions in a filthy clinic with unsterile instruments. He was using unqualified assistants, and was breaking numerous other laws.
He should have been caught years ago.
So having dirty floors was his real crime in your opinion.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229645 Apr 24, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
So having dirty floors was his real crime in your opinion.
Murdering women was his real crime. In my opinion, and in the opinion of the people who charged him with it.

Get a grip.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229646 Apr 24, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Murdering women was his real crime. In my opinion, and in the opinion of the people who charged him with it.
Get a grip.
So you're a hypocrite too.

Next....

Since: Jul 10

Minneapolis, MN

#229647 Apr 24, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
So having dirty floors was his real crime in your opinion.
many places like the one she refers to. not only do they have dirty floors. but also dirty instruments, walls, etc.....
.
many of the backstreet abortionists do NOT even wash their hands between abortions...
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

#229648 Apr 24, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Murdering women was his real crime. In my opinion, and in the opinion of the people who charged him with it.
Get a grip.
So no problem with murdering the babies, just the women?
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

#229649 Apr 24, 2013
Sangelia wrote:
<quoted text>
many places like the one she refers to. not only do they have dirty floors. but also dirty instruments, walls, etc.....
.
many of the backstreet abortionists do NOT even wash their hands between abortions...
So how many of the many backstreet abortionists have you reported this week, month or year?

That is what I thought...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#229650 Apr 24, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
You are equating the right that an individual has to live, with the stage of their development.
Incorrect. Every person has a right to live. Until they actually ARE a person, it is ludicrous to talk of them as if they were.
LightForce wrote:
What is your reason for this?
The soul. Without a soul, there is no person.
LightForce wrote:
In fact you are even stating that there is a specific point in that development where they morph into what is a child.
It is called "birth". The wad of goo stops being a fetus, and becomes a child.
LightForce wrote:
When is this point?
This is the point at which the soul joins with the body to transform a wad of goo into a human being.
LightForce wrote:
This attitude just seems like it is a convenient analysis for a parent who wants to dis their child.
Quite the contrary, I love my kid quite a bit, and take great efforts to provide all the support and nurturing that I can.
LightForce wrote:
You then conclude this by legitimizing the killing of the child before leaving for a nice, quiet vacation.
I have never advocated the killing of a child. I consider that to be the worst form of murder.
LightForce wrote:
To you, does this sound like something that a responsible, trustworthy adult might do? This scenario is very convenient for the parent, but it completely ignores the rights of the child.
No child was involved in the scenario. A woman got an abortion, and then left for a vacation. No big deal.
LightForce wrote:
You would have to have some logical, reasonable answers for the first two questions here in order to validate a “yes” answer to the last. I repeat – LOGICAL and REASONABLE answers.
You and the rest on here have repeated this false statement regarding the facts of the video over and over again. This is the epitome of “if you repeat a lie often enough, it will become the truth”. Where in the ultrasound image do you ever see anybody’s finger? That’s right – never. If we are ever to believe anything that you say, you should at least not let your partisan ego get in the way of the truth.
Technically, I have not said that, since I have not yet watched the video. However, it is still a valid point, that if there is a discernible marker, such as one of the doctor's fingers, then it will be easy to determine the approximate size of the fetus, and from there make a REASONABLE estimate of the gestational age. For a practiced eye, merely looking closely at the stage of development can provide the same information.

Fetuses are like buses. As long as there is no problem, another one will be along in a little while. Now, if there is a problem, if a woman WANTS a baby, then on the rare occasion that a fetus does show up, there is no reason for her to abort (unless there is a medical problem). But, if the woman does not want to be pregnant, for ANY reason, that is HER choice to make

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