There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

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“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

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#229458
Apr 19, 2013
 
Sangelia wrote:
<quoted text>
there were laws on the books for sterilization of folks they did not consider able to take care of themselves. this included many on the autism spectrum.
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now, about the links. any words right after the links, is from the site the link is to.
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http://www.uvm.edu/~lkaelber/eugenics/ American eugenics refers inter alia to compulsory sterilization laws adopted by over 30 states that led to more than 60,000 sterilizations of disabled individuals. Many of these individuals were sterilized because of a disability: they were mentally disabled or ill, or belonged to socially disadvantaged groups living on the margins of society. American eugenic laws and practices implemented in the first decades of the twentieth century influenced the much larger National Socialist compulsory sterilization program, which between 1934 and 1945 led to approximately 350,000 compulsory sterilizations and was a stepping stone to the Holocaust. Even after the details of the Nazi sterilization program (as well as its role as a precursor to the "Euthanasia" murders) became more widely known after World War II (and which the New York Times had reported on extensively and in great detail even before its implementation in 1934), sterilizations in some American states did not stop. Some states continued to sterilize residents into the 1970s.
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http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/html/eugenics/... Indiana enacted the first law allowing sterilization on eugenic grounds in 1907, with Connecticut following soon after. Despite these early statutes, sterilization did not gain widespread popular approval until the late 1920s.
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in fact one set of the sterilization cases in America came to light when a Native American lady told folks about the forced abortions and sterilizations against the Native Americans in South Dakota.
Forced sterilizations took place in this country all the way up into the 1970s and I suspect still happen from time to time today.

One woman who had had multiple children wondered why she had never had any more children despite trying. Turns out she was sterilized and the doctor never even informed her of it.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

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#229459
Apr 19, 2013
 

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LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
This is incredible. Youíre arguing almost the exact same points that I was going to bring up. What you are saying is that a personís own rights should be limited when they infringe on the rights of somebody else. Yes. Life is the right that we hold as the most valuable, and protecting that right could at times involve limiting the rights of others. This is what we can also call self-defense.
Legal rights donít trump moral rights. It is always wrong to deny a personís moral rights whether it is legal to do so or not.
If I have the same points, then obviously you know that our society does not uphold some overall sanctity of life mentality. It does not. The life of a woman will always trump the life inside her. Always.

Legal rights trump people's moral beliefs all the time. All. The. Time.
LightForce

Warren, MI

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#229460
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
If I have the same points, then obviously you know that our society does not uphold some overall sanctity of life mentality. It does not. The life of a woman will always trump the life inside her. Always.
Legal rights trump people's moral beliefs all the time. All. The. Time.
You either donít understand the concept of moral rights or you donít care. My argument is based on what we should do, and not on what we do. We wouldnít even have to think at all if all we did was agree with what other people do. Itís very simple, doing the right thing has nothing to do with doing what everybody else is doing. I repeat, it is always wrong to deny a personís moral rights whether it is legal to do so or not.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#229461
Apr 19, 2013
 
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh geez, it turned the god knob on.
I'm an atheist, dear. So, as I've seen somewhere on the internet, threatening an atheist with all this god stuff is like threatening an adult by saying Santa won't bring presents.
Here's a question for you though:
Since you being what you apparently are in spite proves god exists, what about all the children/adults who are born and are not like you or do not have your abilities and in fact are quite disfigured, disabled or even die? What does that prove?
The god knob!! I love it. I'll have to remember that one...

Telling a pagan she's going to hell, is like telling a Christian she's going to Mordor.

Ha ha.

Since: Jul 10

Minneapolis, MN

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#229462
Apr 19, 2013
 
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Forced sterilizations took place in this country all the way up into the 1970s and I suspect still happen from time to time today.
One woman who had had multiple children wondered why she had never had any more children despite trying. Turns out she was sterilized and the doctor never even informed her of it.
seems to be a growing movement again. there is one female on topix with a san antonia tx as her 'place' who wants all folks with autism, especially aspies to be sterilized. due to her feeling that folks on the spectrum are somehow sub-human.
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as well as various court cases are popping up about it. and not just in the USA & China.
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in fact a set of parents won a court case to have their daughter sterilized.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/288852 An Australian couple has won the right to have their severely disabled 11-year-old daughter sterilized.
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http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/blogs.deta... January 18, 2012
...A judge in Massachusetts ordered that a pregnant woman with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia have an abortion against her will and be sterilized at the same time.
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the second letter down is the one in this link: http://www.uexpress.com/printable/print.html... We were over at a friend's house for dinner when my best friend noticed the mark. She then proceeded to tell me I should consider getting Jasper "fixed." At first, I wasn't sure I'd heard her correctly, so I asked her to repeat it. I am shocked that she thinks I should have my son sterilized.
....Jasper is diagnosed with ADD and Asperger's syndrome.
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IMHO sterilizations should be done only to a person if they want and or agree to it.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

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#229463
Apr 19, 2013
 
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
You either donít understand the concept of moral rights or you donít care. My argument is based on what we should do, and not on what we do. We wouldnít even have to think at all if all we did was agree with what other people do. Itís very simple, doing the right thing has nothing to do with doing what everybody else is doing. I repeat, it is always wrong to deny a personís moral rights whether it is legal to do so or not.
Well you can argue all day about what we should, but your should doesn't equal my should and you're not allowed to should all over me.

The right thing to you isn't the right thing to me. Moral relativism.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

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#229464
Apr 19, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>The god knob!! I love it. I'll have to remember that one...
Telling a pagan she's going to hell, is like telling a Christian she's going to Mordor.
Ha ha.
This one...this one is just like a combination of all the individual crazies that get on here and threaten us. I should've seen the god thing coming. It was just a matter of time. When all else fails in their arguments, they always resort to "you're gonna have to face god!"

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

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#229465
Apr 19, 2013
 
Sangelia wrote:
<quoted text>
seems to be a growing movement again. there is one female on topix with a san antonia tx as her 'place' who wants all folks with autism, especially aspies to be sterilized. due to her feeling that folks on the spectrum are somehow sub-human.
.
as well as various court cases are popping up about it. and not just in the USA & China.
.
in fact a set of parents won a court case to have their daughter sterilized.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/288852 An Australian couple has won the right to have their severely disabled 11-year-old daughter sterilized.
.
http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/blogs.deta... January 18, 2012
...A judge in Massachusetts ordered that a pregnant woman with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia have an abortion against her will and be sterilized at the same time.
.
the second letter down is the one in this link: http://www.uexpress.com/printable/print.html... We were over at a friend's house for dinner when my best friend noticed the mark. She then proceeded to tell me I should consider getting Jasper "fixed." At first, I wasn't sure I'd heard her correctly, so I asked her to repeat it. I am shocked that she thinks I should have my son sterilized.
....Jasper is diagnosed with ADD and Asperger's syndrome.
.
IMHO sterilizations should be done only to a person if they want and or agree to it.
I have seen where women who are considered mentally retarded are forced into sterilization by their families, so I don't doubt it at all. Scary concept.

Since: Mar 13

Whitney, TX

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#229466
Apr 19, 2013
 
Haven't been here in a while. I see SKL is still at her best.:) Sadly, Lawest is still here quoting from some archaic book filled with hate and intolerance. She should read God is Not Great: Religion poisons everything... Take a look at the atrocities man has done in the name of gawd.
"Thou shalt not kill?" Gimme a break. At any rate, it's fun coming here and watching things develop.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

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#229468
Apr 19, 2013
 
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
What I mean is that morality is not a subjective opinion, which is what your premise was/is. Morality is always based on the moral rights of the person that you are inflicting your opinion upon. To put it another way, it may be my opinion that rape is OK, but the moral rights of the one being raped should take precedence over my opinion.
I do know your opinion regarding the rights of born children because youíve already pointed it out to me. But not surprisingly, it seems that now you are stating a different opinion than the one you gave earlier. Youíre about as flip-floppy as Sister Flippy.
Morality is totally subjective.

What is moral for me may not be for you. It is immoral for me to drink alcohol. It is not immoral for everyone else.

It is not immoral for me to live with my boyfriend, but it may be for someone else.

Morals are what is right and wrong for the individual.

If it is wrong for you to have an abortion, don't do so. But it wasn't wrong for me to do so.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

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#229469
Apr 19, 2013
 
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
What I mean is that morality is not a subjective opinion, which is what your premise was/is. Morality is always based on the moral rights of the person that you are inflicting your opinion upon. To put it another way, it may be my opinion that rape is OK, but the moral rights of the one being raped should take precedence over my opinion.
I do know your opinion regarding the rights of born children because youíve already pointed it out to me. But not surprisingly, it seems that now you are stating a different opinion than the one you gave earlier. Youíre about as flip-floppy as Sister Flippy.
Your reading comprehension skills need a great deal of work.

I may word things differently, but my inherent beliefs have not changed.

Since: Jul 10

Minneapolis, MN

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#229470
Apr 19, 2013
 
AriaJames wrote:
Haven't been here in a while. I see SKL is still at her best.:) Sadly, Lawest is still here quoting from some archaic book filled with hate and intolerance. She should read God is Not Great: Religion poisons everything... Take a look at the atrocities man has done in the name of gawd.
"Thou shalt not kill?" Gimme a break. At any rate, it's fun coming here and watching things develop.
very true. especially in the OT there are dozens of commands on why to kill. in fact the OT is a bloody set of books on commands. like if even on person in a town is a non-believer. the person is to kill the entire population of that town.
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and many of those folks when you tell them that. they claim that due to Jesus. the OT is invalid.
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they keep forgetting one lil section of the bible where Jesus mentions about the OT and the commandments in it
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Matthew 5:17-18
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Since: Mar 13

Whitney, TX

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#229471
Apr 19, 2013
 
Sangelia wrote:
<quoted text>
very true. especially in the OT there are dozens of commands on why to kill. in fact the OT is a bloody set of books on commands. like if even on person in a town is a non-believer. the person is to kill the entire population of that town.
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and many of those folks when you tell them that. they claim that due to Jesus. the OT is invalid.
.
they keep forgetting one lil section of the bible where Jesus mentions about the OT and the commandments in it
.
Matthew 5:17-18
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
And of course, the Christians claim that they live by the NT. However, they like to pick and choose from the OT when it's convenient to their cause/agenda/hate/bigotry.. the list goes on. My brother is a born again Christian of the worst kind. Tries to get me to read the gibberish. After some inner debate on whether I should stand for what I believe in or hurt his feelings, I went with my truth. Six pages later, I told him what I believed in and what I didn't. I'm waiting on a reply, which I'm sure it's gonna be filled with lots of verses.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#229472
Apr 19, 2013
 
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
This one...this one is just like a combination of all the individual crazies that get on here and threaten us. I should've seen the god thing coming. It was just a matter of time. When all else fails in their arguments, they always resort to "you're gonna have to face god!"
Since 'god' is the ultimate abortionist, and apparently has a 'plan' that we're all obliged to follow, and (supposedly) these 'little babies' they're so obsessed with go straight to 'heaven', I've always had a hard time giving any credence to the "You're goin' ta hay-ul if you have a 'bortion," crap from a fetus worshiper.

Just never made sense to me.

If they have to resort to 'gawd', they've already lost their own argument.
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

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#229473
Apr 19, 2013
 
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Morality is totally subjective.
What is moral for me may not be for you. It is immoral for me to drink alcohol. It is not immoral for everyone else.
It is not immoral for me to live with my boyfriend, but it may be for someone else.
Morals are what is right and wrong for the individual.
If it is wrong for you to have an abortion, don't do so. But it wasn't wrong for me to do so.
Okay so the rape and torture of children is OKAY for people that apply subjective morals, right?

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#229474
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Expert in all Things wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay so the rape and torture of children is OKAY for people that apply subjective morals, right?
Not if we catch 'em at it.

Unlike some folks, I'm not ashamed to say there are valid reasons to kill. In my book, that's one of them.
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

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#229475
Apr 19, 2013
 
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Not if we catch 'em at it.
Unlike some folks, I'm not ashamed to say there are valid reasons to kill. In my book, that's one of them.
But if morals are subjective, then it is up to the individual to chose what is right and wrong.
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

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#229476
Apr 19, 2013
 
I owe an "o". Keys are sticking.

Since: Mar 13

Whitney, TX

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#229477
Apr 19, 2013
 
Still trying to figure out the immorality of drinking alcohol versus the morality of living under the same roof with your boyfriend. That doesn't compute.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

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#229478
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Expert in all Things wrote:
<quoted text>
But if morals are subjective, then it is up to the individual to chose what is right and wrong.
It's always up to the individual to choose what is right, and what is wrong. Society often disagrees with the individual, and legislates against what is generally agreed upon to be right and wrong. Regardless of penalty, however, it is the individual who decides for him or herself what he/she will or will not do.

Laws never stopped a crime - laws only define and punish it.

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