“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#229357 Apr 18, 2013
Angel1976 wrote:
I was born a premature baby and I do have FAS and I lead a very protective life. I do a lot of volunteer work helping kids deal with day to day issues. I have talked with kids in the schools and I have also been on the news and panels to discuss the effects of alcohol while it is being consumed by a pregnant woman. My mother could have had an abortion but decided no to and give me a fighting chance and I am here to tell you that people with FAS like myself can lead normal productive and rewarding lives.
when you have to invent a new name and come in as a grey boxer, you have lost your standing.

lame try.

and even if it were true, most people with FAS do NOT lead a productive life as you describe. they exist.

again let me point out, i am a mental health professional.

you are really desperate.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#229358 Apr 18, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>If that fetus is "11 or 12 weeks old," by the 38th week it would weigh at least 40 pounds, and be roughly the size of a mini-fridge.
I know you loathe and despise women, but wishing us to have to birth a baby the size of a mini-fridge is stretching it, even for you.
my third baby weighed 11 lbs.

i am a size 2. i normally weigh about 103-105. i am 5'3"

people told me i looked like a meatball on two toothpicks.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#229359 Apr 18, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Somebody else who is commenting on a video that they didn't even watch. This seems to be a common theme here.
.......Many members of the medical community were critical of the film, describing it as misleading and deceptive. Richard Berkowitz, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Mount Sinai Medical Center, described the film as "factually misleading and unfair".[4] John Hobbins of the Yale School of Medicine called the film's use of special effects deceptive, a form of "technical flimflam." He pointed out that the film of the ultrasound is initially run at slow speed, but that it is sped up when surgical instruments are introduced to give the impression that "the fetus is thrashing about in alarm." Hobbins questioned the titular "scream", noting that "the fetus spends lots of time with its mouth open", that the "scream" may have been a yawn, and also that "mouth" identified on the blurry ultrasound in the film may in fact have been the space between the fetal chin and chest.[4]

Fetal development experts argued that, contrary to Nathanson's assertion in the film, a fetus cannot perceive danger or make purposeful movements. David Bodian, a neurobiologist at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, stated that doctors had no evidence that a twelve-week-old fetus could feel pain, but noted the possibility of a reflex movement by a fetus in response to external stimuli such as surgical instruments. The size of the ultrasound image and of the fetus model used was also misleading, appearing to show a fetus the size of a full-term baby, while in actuality a twelve-week-old fetus is under two inches long.[4
Angel1976

Rockford, MI

#229360 Apr 18, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
If by "the right to live" you are referring to abortion, doesn't the woman who's pregnant have rights? Shouldn't she have the right to NOT have to risk her life to remain pregnant or give birth?
Why should she be forced to remain pregnant and give birth against her will?
Well if the woman didn't want a baby she should not have gotten pregnant in the first place. The baby never asked to be born. Haven't these women heard of BIRTH CONTROL? Hmm let's see NO.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#229361 Apr 18, 2013
Cindy1010 wrote:
every child must have the right to live
what about the right to be loved and wanted?

what about a right to a productive life, and not just existing.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#229362 Apr 18, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never had an ectopic pregnancy but I do know they often result in miscarriage.
they result in death if not terminated.

perhaps you should ask your ob/gyn about an ectopic pregnancy.

when the tube ruptures, the woman can bleed to death, if she is not in a hospital setting.

please explain how that embryo/fetus is going to live outside the mother, after the mother is dead.

do you know the the the size of a fallopian tube?

take a regular ball point ink pen and draw a line on a piece of paper.

that's the size of it.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#229363 Apr 18, 2013
Angel1976 wrote:
It seems to me that nobody cares about the people who have FAS or not or is it that nobody knows what it stands for? If this is the case tell me and I will let you know what it is.
fetal alcohol syndrome.

as with autism the symptoms can vary widely. from extremely mild to very severe.

from just a mild facial feature deformity to severe mental retardation.

you also left these out.........
•Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)
•Partial Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (PFAS)
•Alcohol-Related Neurodevelopmental Disorder (ARND)
•Alcohol-Related Birth Defects (ARBD)
•Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE)

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#229369 Apr 18, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
It is understood as an ethical standard in our society that everybody has the basic inherent right to life. Ethical/moral standards are standards based on what we would want for ourselves, and to be applied equally to everybody. So if you believe that your own life is worthless, you could also think that abortion is alright.
If you are going to base your opinion on what is legal, then you would have to assume that the law in effect now will always remain in effect. You wouldn’t want your rights to be taken away because the state might have a legal right to do so. If an ethical right is there, it would be wrong for the government to deny that right. Therefore, whether abortion is legal or not adds no validity to your argument.
No, it not understood. Our society takes away the right to life all the time. We are a nation with the death penalty and you're going to sit there and honestly tell me that our society upholds the right to life in every circumstance? It doesn't. We regard a right to life in certain circumstances. For example, you have the right to life IF you do not commit a crime that takes someone else's life. Then, you may no longer have the right to life.

Another example: you have the right to life IF you have a good job and great insurance. Otherwise, you may not have as much of a right to life over someone else who the health care industry or hospital deems more worthy than you.

There are many examples of how we negotiate the right to life. It is not inherent and we as a society choose which lives have rights. Same thing as abortion.

The fact that abortion adds quite a bit of validity to my argument. Your argument is that our society upholds the right to life. Our laws say otherwise.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#229370 Apr 18, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Assigning different rights according to a certain “class” of individuals is subjective, and unequal justice used by one group to control another. As I already pointed out to you in the previous post, the legality of personhood has no bearing on the moral rights of an individual.
See my first post to you. All that applies here as well. Especially here. Until you can prove that ALL life is special and ALL life is considered and ALL life is protected, you cannot win this argument.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#229371 Apr 18, 2013
Angel1976 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well if the woman didn't want a baby she should not have gotten pregnant in the first place. The baby never asked to be born. Haven't these women heard of BIRTH CONTROL? Hmm let's see NO.
Since you claim to be an intelligent person, certainly you must know that birth control fails, correct?
Angel1976

Rockford, MI

#229373 Apr 18, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you claim to be an intelligent person, certainly you must know that birth control fails, correct?
That is because most of the time they are not taking it the way that they should be. Not to mention there are other types of birth control that I do know. Have your tubes tied if YOU DO NOT WANT A CHILD!!!

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229374 Apr 18, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
If we use your premise to solve our problems then that would mean we can do whatever we want, even if it means killing another person. You can't just change the meaning of "rights" when it comes to you as opposed to another individual. That would be a double standard which makes your whole argument invalid.
You aren't using my premise.

You are using YOURS.

Understand the difference. I do NOT advocate killing a human being outside the womb.

You, apparently, do.

That's YOUR premise.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229375 Apr 18, 2013
Angel1976 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well if the woman didn't want a baby she should not have gotten pregnant in the first place. The baby never asked to be born. Haven't these women heard of BIRTH CONTROL? Hmm let's see NO.
Are you really so ignorant as to believe birth control never fails? That even surgical birth control fails?

I never asked to be born either. I didn't have a choice in being born. NO ONE DOES.

That is the STUPIDEST argument EVER!
Ocean56

AOL

#229376 Apr 18, 2013
Angel1976 wrote:
That is because most of the time they are not taking it the way that they should be. Not to mention there are other types of birth control that I do know. Have your tubes tied if YOU DO NOT WANT A CHILD!!!
Oh PLEASE, what utter nonsense. ALL methods of birth control can and DO fail occasionally, as NO method is 100% guaranteed to prevent unwanted pregnancy.

Furthermore, it is not as easy for a woman to have a tubal ligation done as you would like everyone to believe. Many doctors don't want to perform them on women who are younger than 30 and if they haven't had any children, even when a woman makes it very clear she NEVER wants children.

In any case, NO woman has to have surgery to avoid unwanted pregnancy just because YOU say she "should." I'm DONE with the whole procreation thing, and I'll use my current form of BC, which -- thankfully -- hasn't let me down so far. I'm very grateful for having it, as it has kept me pregnancy-FREE the last 15+ years. For me, PREGNANCY SUCKS, and I so love NOT being pregnant.
Angel1976

Rockford, MI

#229382 Apr 18, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh PLEASE, what utter nonsense. ALL methods of birth control can and DO fail occasionally, as NO method is 100% guaranteed to prevent unwanted pregnancy.
Furthermore, it is not as easy for a woman to have a tubal ligation done as you would like everyone to believe. Many doctors don't want to perform them on women who are younger than 30 and if they haven't had any children, even when a woman makes it very clear she NEVER wants children.
In any case, NO woman has to have surgery to avoid unwanted pregnancy just because YOU say she "should." I'm DONE with the whole procreation thing, and I'll use my current form of BC, which -- thankfully -- hasn't let me down so far. I'm very grateful for having it, as it has kept me pregnancy-FREE the last 15+ years. For me, PREGNANCY SUCKS, and I so love NOT being pregnant.
What sort of birth control do you use? Abortion? Well that just isn't right. Crossing you're legs is full proof and so is just saying NO. Another thing that is full proof would be having a hysterectomy.

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Angel1976

Rockford, MI

#229383 Apr 18, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you really so ignorant as to believe birth control never fails? That even surgical birth control fails?
I never asked to be born either. I didn't have a choice in being born. NO ONE DOES.
That is the STUPIDEST argument EVER!
There is such a thing as having a hysterectomy for those of you out there who do not want to have children.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229386 Apr 18, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
When I speak about the rights of the preborn, I’m not talking about the rights to medical choices for women. If you still don’t understand my position, we can go over it again if you like. Your posts concerning this have no validity until you stop equating medical choices with the choice to murder.
I saw the video and the fetus, now what? I think that your own self-interests may be getting in the way of your ability to see it objectively.
Abortion is not 'a choice to murder'. It is a legal medical procedure, available as treatment for unwanted pregnancy.
Your point has no validity, as long as you insist on conflating self-defense with murder. They are two different things. I think your fetus worship may be getting in the way of your common sense.

If you saw the video and the fetus, and you have access to a standard tape measure, you know damn good and well that fetus is not 1.5 inches long. At the very least, it's about 7 inches long. No 11 week human fetus, is 7 inches long.
Read a biology text, and get back to me.

If the so-called 'pro-life' crowd wants to make a point, its go-to strategy is ALWAYS exaggeration, hyperbole, and speculation, in place of simple facts, applied logic, and research.

Probably because the facts, logic, and research don't conform to your rose-colored-glasses view of human REALITY.

If you disagree with abortion....DON'T HAVE ONE.

Why is that so very hard for you fetus worshippers to understand??

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229391 Apr 18, 2013
Angel1976 wrote:
<quoted text>
There is such a thing as having a hysterectomy for those of you out there who do not want to have children.
Tell you what, hon - you can get your works cut out ANYTIME you want to - IF you can find a doctor who will do it, without a diagnosis of uterine, fallopian tube AND ovary dysfunction or disease.

I'd just as soon not.

There is such a thing as minding your own damn business, if you don't want the state to mind it for you.

Be careful what you wish for - your reproductive choices may be on the chopping block next.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#229395 Apr 18, 2013
Expert in all Things wrote:
<quoted text>
What percent of abortion accounts for rape victims?
higher than what you think when you take into account the fetuses that were conceived during date rapes, or when a husband rapes his wife.

yes it does happen.

then there are the rapes and conceptions that happen at frat parties. when the victim is passed out. of course you probably think the victim deserves to get raped and knocked up right!

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#229396 Apr 18, 2013
Angel1976 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well if the woman didn't want a baby she should not have gotten pregnant in the first place. The baby never asked to be born. Haven't these women heard of BIRTH CONTROL? Hmm let's see NO.
all birth control, including surgical birth control fails.

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