There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Columbus, OH

#229147 Apr 14, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, and a lot of harassed and stressed-out parents secretly envy the CF because they DO have the freedom to do the things those parents can't do anymore. They seldom admit that, of course.
When DS started school full time, I had several hours of free time to do things that I enjoyed, and still be back in time to get him off the bus when he got home. I was able to do this because DS didn't have baby or toddler siblings that needed constant attention. More than once I was on the receiving end of the snarky comments from parents of two, three, or more kids, like "must be nice to do what you want..." and similar barbs. I would just smile and say, "yes, it really IS!" and be on my way.
I have been on the receiving end of those same barbs. Sigh. I just will never understand why some people believe everyone should want the same things out of life. My passion is animals and because I'm not a parent, I'm able to indulge that passion through volunteering, fostering, etc. Then of course I get called the crazy cat lady, which in all honesty I don't find offensive. The other thing I notice is how competitive and duplicitous many mothers are. Standing around judging another's parenting, bragging how their kid did better than some other person's kid...all the while smiling and acting like they're the best of friends.

And one more thing - and this one really irritates me - someone telling me that my life doesn't or can't have any real purpose unless I have children. A friend of mine ACTUALLY said that to me. I was dumbfounded. This person is also uber religious, so I'm sure that had something to do with it, but when I explained to them that it is quite possible to derive a sense of purpose from other things, they dismissed me and gave me that ol "you can't possibly understand because you're not a parent."
Milorad Ivovic

Frankston, Australia

#229149 Apr 15, 2013
I'm sorry, I lost interest a few sentences into your self-aggrandising post. It didn't help that I was already barely clinging to the respect I'd already lost for you.

Misnadry =/= Equality.

It's no wonder so many here don't take you seriously. They just know you better than I did at first.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229150 Apr 15, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
I found numerous mentions of failed foreign adoptions. Many were on forums and other pages. This one seems pretty reputable. Many of them mentioned "Reactive Attachment Disorder."
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/897380/ov...
How about successful foreign adoptions? Why is it you always go to the negative sources,other than to try and prove that abortion is just fine.
No one here says every adoption is perfect,there are problems in all parents and children.

Heres an interesting link.http://www.comeunity.com/ adoption/Groza.html

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229151 Apr 15, 2013

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229152 Apr 15, 2013
try this
sorry to early to be typing
Ocean56

AOL

#229153 Apr 15, 2013
Ella wrote:
The present system is still in dire need of revamping. Over 15+ yrs ago, Debbie Stabbenaw introduced a bill to address the increasing numbers of children who remained in the system for over 10 yrs. Unfortunately, that was only the minor issue in my opinion. Herein lies the problem: Children were often moved through the system (due to State mandated time limits)and placed into foster care with limited transitional time and limited follow up. Our confidentiality laws do not allow the foster parent to be aware of the child's history of abuse. So, let's say the child was sexually or ritualistically abused. They may exhibit verbal aggression, violent outbursts and/or depression. Repeated patterns of these behaviors are often viewed as 'problematic' and many foster parents return the child back into the system because they are 'unmanageable'. You now have a child who is further wounded by an inadequate system of rules and regulations on top of their abuse issues. So the process is repeated and the child is placed into another foster home only to see the same outcome. How do you think this child feels about their worth as a person? Thus, the system becomes a revolving door and a warehouse for deeply wounded children. This is why many opt to adopt foreign children. Foreign governments are upfront with adoptive parents informing them of the child's physical/psychological/medical histories and needs. They do their best to insure the transition process is successful.
I see. So it's not...um...CONVENIENT or EASY for these women to adopt children currently in the foster care system because some of these children might have "problems." So they would prefer to adopt perfect, healthy babies with little or preferably NO problems. Therefore, they "take the easy way out" by adopting cute little babies overseas. Got it.

But guess what, NO woman has to be a baby factory for the infertile women who will only accept an infant to adopt. If she doesn't WANT to be pregnant, she isn't forced to remain that way to supply infertile women with infants.
Ocean56

AOL

#229154 Apr 15, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
And one more thing - and this one really irritates me - someone telling me that my life doesn't or can't have any real purpose unless I have children. A friend of mine ACTUALLY said that to me. I was dumbfounded. This person is also uber religious, so I'm sure that had something to do with it, but when I explained to them that it is quite possible to derive a sense of purpose from other things, they dismissed me and gave me that ol "you can't possibly understand because you're not a parent."
OH yeah, I see that "life doesn't have any purpose unless you have children" nonsense quite often, especially on abortion debate forums. There is another forum I post on, and there are a few uber religious types there who have made the same kind of idiotic statements.

I am definitely NOT religious and don't buy that archaic attitude, it's a reminder of that moronic and offensive "woman's place" mindset which was so common in the 18th and 19th centuries. The "woman's place" being, of course, the home and nowhere else. I have zero patience with that regressive mentality, so I have no problem telling these anti-choice imbeciles what they can do with the whole "woman's place" thing.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229155 Apr 15, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>How about successful foreign adoptions? Why is it you always go to the negative sources,other than to try and prove that abortion is just fine.
No one here says every adoption is perfect,there are problems in all parents and children.
Heres an interesting link.http://www.comeunity.com/ adoption/Groza.html
I have NEVER stated abortion is "just fine." Prove me wrong.

She stated that foreign adoptions were easier. I was making a point.

Of course it went over your head.

Are you going to tell me what I supposedly lied about? Or was that yet another lie?

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#229156 Apr 15, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
I have NEVER stated abortion is "just fine." Prove me wrong.
She stated that foreign adoptions were easier. I was making a point.
Of course it went over your head.
Are you going to tell me what I supposedly lied about? Or was that yet another lie?
Do you really think I am that stupid that I would bring up your lies yet again,when the last time I did it you got me banned from this thread. You know exactly what you lied about you stupid b*tch. If people really knew the real you and the lies you have told me on the phone they would turn and run so fast.
And you do think abortion is just fine,why else would you have killed your baby in the womb.Funny how you made yourself look so good by saying you adopted a daughter,but yet when you talk about your children it is only your precious sons.(((COUGH)))

Now make sure and check my spelling.Thats all you really have going for you. LOLOLOL

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“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229157 Apr 15, 2013
Milorad Ivovic wrote:
I'm sorry, I lost interest a few sentences into your self-aggrandising post. It didn't help that I was already barely clinging to the respect I'd already lost for you.
Misnadry =/= Equality.
It's no wonder so many here don't take you seriously. They just know you better than I did at first.
Boo-hoo. As I said, I appreciate your 'support' of the cause. Pardon me if I failed to lick your hand like a puppy, in my gratitude.

Creep.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229158 Apr 15, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
I see. So it's not...um...CONVENIENT or EASY for these women to adopt children currently in the foster care system because some of these children might have "problems." So they would prefer to adopt perfect, healthy babies with little or preferably NO problems. Therefore, they "take the easy way out" by adopting cute little babies overseas. Got it.
But guess what, NO woman has to be a baby factory for the infertile women who will only accept an infant to adopt. If she doesn't WANT to be pregnant, she isn't forced to remain that way to supply infertile women with infants.
Regardless of how many children are up for adoption, many women who are reproductively challenge will still spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to create their own children. My cousin, who is very young but has the ovaries of a woman in menopause, paid handsomely for her three children. Other women go through surrogates. No matter how many times these people claim there are people who would love to adopt, there are more who are willing to shell out big bucks and take advantage of modern technology to have their own.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229159 Apr 15, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Do you really think I am that stupid that I would bring up your lies yet again,when the last time I did it you got me banned from this thread. You know exactly what you lied about you stupid b*tch. If people really knew the real you and the lies you have told me on the phone they would turn and run so fast.
And you do think abortion is just fine,why else would you have killed your baby in the womb.Funny how you made yourself look so good by saying you adopted a daughter,but yet when you talk about your children it is only your precious sons.(((COUGH)))
Now make sure and check my spelling.Thats all you really have going for you. LOLOLOL
Quick question - why do you care what MS has or hasn't done? You seem irrationally obsessed with this woman and her private life. What's done is done and harping on the subject doesn't change what has happened and doesn't change her thoughts on the subject. Your posts read like a broken angry record.
Chloe

Saint Louis, MO

#229160 Apr 15, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Regardless of how many children are up for adoption, many women who are reproductively challenge will still spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to create their own children. My cousin, who is very young but has the ovaries of a woman in menopause, paid handsomely for her three children. Other women go through surrogates. No matter how many times these people claim there are people who would love to adopt, there are more who are willing to shell out big bucks and take advantage of modern technology to have their own.
So what if adoption for these people are the last resort? They want their OWN baby if that is technologically possible, do you really want to put them down for that? Not everyone wants a child if they can't have their own. It takes a special person/couple to adopt and there are a lot of them out there...it also takes a special person to carry a child to full term that they don't want to give that couple and child a chance at a happy life. Why do you want to put that down?

It takes a great deal of love to give birth to a child they know they will not get to raise. A great deal. I would venture to say way more than a woman who has an abortion is capable of having since her first notion is just to kill the life that is growing inside of her.

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“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229161 Apr 15, 2013
Chloe wrote:
<quoted text>
So what if adoption for these people are the last resort? They want their OWN baby if that is technologically possible, do you really want to put them down for that? Not everyone wants a child if they can't have their own. It takes a special person/couple to adopt and there are a lot of them out there...it also takes a special person to carry a child to full term that they don't want to give that couple and child a chance at a happy life. Why do you want to put that down?
It takes a great deal of love to give birth to a child they know they will not get to raise. A great deal. I would venture to say way more than a woman who has an abortion is capable of having since her first notion is just to kill the life that is growing inside of her.
Where do you people come up with this stuff? Where did I EVER say I am putting down people who choose to take advantage of the technology we have today in order to have their own children. Oh, that's right - I didn't. When people say "Oh don't have an abortion because there are plenty of couples who can't have children who would LOVE to adopt," that isn't necessarily true and you even confirmed that, so thank you for proving my point.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229162 Apr 15, 2013
Chloe wrote:
<quoted text>
So what if adoption for these people are the last resort? They want their OWN baby if that is technologically possible, do you really want to put them down for that? Not everyone wants a child if they can't have their own. It takes a special person/couple to adopt and there are a lot of them out there...it also takes a special person to carry a child to full term that they don't want to give that couple and child a chance at a happy life. Why do you want to put that down?
It takes a great deal of love to give birth to a child they know they will not get to raise. A great deal. I would venture to say way more than a woman who has an abortion is capable of having since her first notion is just to kill the life that is growing inside of her.
The point is, that the so-called 'pro-life' faction wants to characterize women's reasons for abortion as "convenience", and ignore the fact that women who adopt overseas babies, as opposed to the American children in their own cities, are doing that out of "convenience" as well.

It's all well and good to insist that many want to adopt a child, but if the only child(ren) one is willing to adopt fit(s) into a precise age group (or skin color, or health status) that is adoption of convenience. It's intensely hypocritical to castigate women for making the choice not to remain pregnant because it's "inconvenient," and then give women who go overseas to adopt a perfectly healthy infant, rather than adopting an American toddler because the American adoption system is "inconvenient", a pass.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229163 Apr 15, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Do you really think I am that stupid that I would bring up your lies yet again,
Yes.
Yes, I really think you are that stupid.
Because you brought up her 'lies' again, and again, and again, and again, and again, but have yet to prove what lies she told, or that she ever lied in the first place.

It's apparently your primary reason for continuing to post here.

That's pretty stupid.
Ocean56

AOL

#229164 Apr 15, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
Regardless of how many children are up for adoption, many women who are reproductively challenge will still spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to create their own children. My cousin, who is very young but has the ovaries of a woman in menopause, paid handsomely for her three children. Other women go through surrogates. No matter how many times these people claim there are people who would love to adopt, there are more who are willing to shell out big bucks and take advantage of modern technology to have their own.
Agreed. And more often than not, these are the same so-called "prolife" women who complain when other women have an abortion because they DIDN'T want to stay pregnant and give birth to supply the infertile with infants. My feeling; too bad. I find it impossible to have any sympathy for them.
Ocean56

AOL

#229165 Apr 15, 2013
Chloe wrote:
So what if adoption for these people are the last resort? They want their OWN baby if that is technologically possible, do you really want to put them down for that? Not everyone wants a child if they can't have their own. It takes a special person/couple to adopt and there are a lot of them out there...it also takes a special person to carry a child to full term that they don't want to give that couple and child a chance at a happy life. Why do you want to put that down?
It takes a great deal of love to give birth to a child they know they will not get to raise. A great deal. I would venture to say way more than a woman who has an abortion is capable of having since her first notion is just to kill the life that is growing inside of her.
I don't recall seeing MPNF "put that down" at any point in her previous post; she just stated that this was the case for many women. Why you have a problem with her stating that situation is beyond me.

The thing is that women who are "prolife" often get mad at women who have an abortion because they DON'T want to stay pregnant and give birth just to supply the demand for infants. Tough luck. If these women can't be bothered to go through the steps to adopt older CHILDREN currently in foster care, I have no sympathy for them.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229166 Apr 15, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Do you really think I am that stupid that I would bring up your lies yet again,when the last time I did it you got me banned from this thread. You know exactly what you lied about you stupid b*tch. If people really knew the real you and the lies you have told me on the phone they would turn and run so fast.
And you do think abortion is just fine,why else would you have killed your baby in the womb.Funny how you made yourself look so good by saying you adopted a daughter,but yet when you talk about your children it is only your precious sons.(((COUGH)))
Now make sure and check my spelling.Thats all you really have going for you. LOLOLOL
You are lying SO bad again. Why would you get banned for telling someone what they lied about?

If you insist on lying, make it plausible.

And are we really going to re-hash that same tired plot of ground? I have told you repeatedly that I will not discuss my daughter (do something about that cough) with you.

If I were going to lie, don't you think I'd do it just to shut your nagging up?

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229167 Apr 15, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Yes.
Yes, I really think you are that stupid.
Because you brought up her 'lies' again, and again, and again, and again, and again, but have yet to prove what lies she told, or that she ever lied in the first place.
It's apparently your primary reason for continuing to post here.
That's pretty stupid.
I notice she said I Lied to her on the phone, yet she insists I've lied while posting on this thread.

Which one is it?

She can't remember that I won't discuss my daughter with her, or that I adopted my daughter around 15 or so years AFTER I had an abortion, yet she can supposedly remember things I said in ONE 20 minute phone conversation in 2007????

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