Ella

Newberry, MI

#229012 Apr 11, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Next time, try reading for comprehension before you post.
Exodus 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her..." So, the men cause the pregnant woman to abort the fetus.
"...and yet no mischief follow..." So, the fetus is a slowly drying wad of goo in the dust, but the woman herself was not harmed.
"...he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine." The woman just lost her fetus, aborted,(against her will even) so the husband gets to take them before the judge and he can be paid a few shekels for the loss of a potential child.
But if the WOMAN is hurt, THEN it becomes a serious matter!
"And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."
Lost fetus = a few shekels, just as if a ox broke loose and damaged as field.
Injured woman = eye for an eye retribution for the injured person.
You are not interpreting scripture correctly. The woman lost the child NOT as an act of her will. When one aborts their child it is an act of choice. It is premeditated...read the scriptures regarding that.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229013 Apr 11, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Agreed.
And then there's the other end of the spectrum. So many of my friends with kids, want to worship the ground they walk on, put them in a plastic bubble, and let them run the show. These are the ones who still put their third 1-month-olds' bowel movements on facebook, to see if anyone recognizes that color, and OMG!!! is there something wrong with that consistency??? The ones who let their 6-month-old dictate the adults' sleep schedules. The ones who bristle with righteous indignation when someone else does anything whatsoever to criticize their kid. The ones who can't come up with any other topic for conversation than what 'little Pookums' did, or said, or puked today.
They are ALWAYS surprised and 'appalled' when the kid screws up, has a differing opinion, refuses to rectify a personal problem, or acts in ways contrary to expectations.
They're also the ones who end up beating the kid for an infraction, financially supporting the kid for a lifetime, losing the kid to suicide, or committing suicide themselves.
That's sad too.
I have a cousin whom I am almost positive has some form of Munchhausen. Her kids are always "sick" and she posts quite frequently on FB about what's going on the entire time they're at the doctor's office. Once her son had a fractured skull because she said her daughter picked the baby up and dropped him on his head. While at the hospital, she was using her phone to get onto FB. I thought, "If my kid had a serious injury, the last thing I would be thinking about was FB." Anyway, she's always posting the gross stuff that could easily be google'd, but she wants the attention. She ended up quoting the bible about spare the rod, spoil the child. I argued with her that while I don't think there's anything wrong with smacking your kid on the butt (my parents did to me and I turned out just fine) that corporal punishment is actually largely ineffective and often times just makes the child fearful of the parent rather than understand what he or she did was wrong. I posted studies that showed that children who are beaten as children often go on to have a propensity toward violence and become depressed.

She deleted me. Some people don't like to hear the truth. And to hit your child in the name of "god"? Yeah, no.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229015 Apr 11, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not interpreting scripture correctly. The woman lost the child NOT as an act of her will. When one aborts their child it is an act of choice. It is premeditated...read the scriptures regarding that.
God condones abortions. He sees nothing wrong with regretting the life you may create and aborting it.
Ella

Newberry, MI

#229016 Apr 11, 2013
Venguer wrote:
<quoted text>
What if a girl is raped by some thug? The trauma of the rape isn't bad enough? She should be forced to have the rapist thug's baby too?
That is what happened to James Robison's mother. She chose to keep her child and he is a renowned minister of the Word of God and an international missionary to the poor, homeless and abused. You never know how God will use someone.
Ella

Newberry, MI

#229017 Apr 11, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
God condones abortions. He sees nothing wrong with regretting the life you may create and aborting it.
You did not create it, God is the creator of life. God blesses you with that gift of life for which you are a steward of. If you were capable of creating life you would choose when you would conceive and when you would not. Abortion would not even be a consideration.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229018 Apr 11, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
That is what happened to James Robison's mother. She chose to keep her child and he is a renowned minister of the Word of God and an international missionary to the poor, homeless and abused. You never know how God will use someone.
Ted Bundy's mom kept him and he killed over 50 women.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#229019 Apr 11, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not create it, God is the creator of life. God blesses you with that gift of life for which you are a steward of. If you were capable of creating life you would choose when you would conceive and when you would not. Abortion would not even be a consideration.
That is your opinion, and you are quite entitled to live by it.

However, you cannot tell someone else they must live by your beliefs/opinion.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229020 Apr 11, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not create it, God is the creator of life. God blesses you with that gift of life for which you are a steward of. If you were capable of creating life you would choose when you would conceive and when you would not. Abortion would not even be a consideration.
Even god regretted making human beings, and if the ultimate being in his infinite infallible-ness can regret life he created (Genesis 6:6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.), I can't imagine humans would be judged for their own regret.

And if god indeed create life that would be aborted, then it seems he shouldn't have created it in the first place. That also begs the question of whether you believe pregnancy that occurs from rape is a "gift" sent by god?
Ocean56

AOL

#229021 Apr 11, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
This is just not true. There is nothing wrong with a woman not getting married or not having children.
REALLY. Then why do you and others go ballistic when some women decide to abort a pregnancy because they just don't want pregnancy or children?

You'll understand (or not, it doesn't matter to me) why I'm not buying this claim.
Ocean56

AOL

#229022 Apr 11, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
That pretty much sums it up! These same women who "wanted" children spend all day on FB complaining about their children and husband. Out of all my friends who has marriages and children, only ONE ever says anything nice about them. It's sad.
Yes, I agree, it is sad. And I'll bet these women who are complaining now are secretly (or not so secretly) unhappy because they were told by family, friends, or religious community that having children was something they were "supposed to do," as opposed to parenthood being something they really WANTED to do.

There's an anti-choice MYTH circulating around that says "mothers never regret having their children." After doing some research on that, and finding some sites with names like "I Wish I'd Never Had Children," I know for a fact that their claim is so NOT TRUE.

When DS was younger, and had just started to attend school full time, I started getting pressure to have another child, from in-laws to acquaintances. I told them that having another child was NOT going to happen and refused to discuss it further. Some were cool with my decision, others got really angry with me. I didn't think it was a coincidence that the ones pressuring me -- and getting pissed when I said NO -- ALL had two or more children. Some said I'd regret my decision one day, when DS asked for siblings. Neither of those things happened.:-)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#229023 Apr 11, 2013
Yes there is.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229024 Apr 11, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I agree, it is sad. And I'll bet these women who are complaining now are secretly (or not so secretly) unhappy because they were told by family, friends, or religious community that having children was something they were "supposed to do," as opposed to parenthood being something they really WANTED to do.
There's an anti-choice MYTH circulating around that says "mothers never regret having their children." After doing some research on that, and finding some sites with names like "I Wish I'd Never Had Children," I know for a fact that their claim is so NOT TRUE.
When DS was younger, and had just started to attend school full time, I started getting pressure to have another child, from in-laws to acquaintances. I told them that having another child was NOT going to happen and refused to discuss it further. Some were cool with my decision, others got really angry with me. I didn't think it was a coincidence that the ones pressuring me -- and getting pissed when I said NO -- ALL had two or more children. Some said I'd regret my decision one day, when DS asked for siblings. Neither of those things happened.:-)
Wow...the audacity! I know lots of people who regret having their children. My brother being one of them. Now, given his reason is because his son didn't turn out the way he expected he would, but nonetheless, he still regrets it. I know of another person who had a child at a very young age. She basically deserted her child and allows the grandmother to care for the child. The only unfortunate thing is that she's pregnant again. Two children by the age of 18 and this one will more than likely end up at grandma's too.

I actually had someone ask me if I felt like I was missing out on life by not having children. I said, "I'm living my life every day - how am I missing it?" I get to do a lot of great things because I did not have children. I've traveled, been able to move wherever I want, had as many pets as I want and enjoy a lot more time with my friends and doing the things I love to do like workout, freelance, etc. Some people know all along they aren't meant for motherhood. I never saw a baby and felt comfortable. The two people who really had an impact on me when I was little was my cousin's aunt and uncle. They had no children, traveled to France and all over the world, ended up opening this http://www.afinetasteofparis.com/Bienvenue.ht... .

I always found them so interesting and exotic. I wanted to grow up and be just like them. And while I haven't opened my own bed and breakfast in France, I've still gotten to do some pretty cool stuff!

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#229025 Apr 11, 2013
Ha! What a coincidence! I cruised over to my yahoo and saw this story:

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/mother-decla...

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#229026 Apr 11, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignoring the evidence doesn't mean it isn't there.
What evidence? Do you simply not understand the phrase "ectopic pregnancy" or the problems connected with that condition?
Sharkey

Sparks, NV

#229027 Apr 11, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Even god regretted making human beings, and if the ultimate being in his infinite infallible-ness can regret life he created (Genesis 6:6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.), I can't imagine humans would be judged for their own regret.
And if god indeed create life that would be aborted, then it seems he shouldn't have created it in the first place. That also begs the question of whether you believe pregnancy that occurs from rape is a "gift" sent by god?
"Even god regretted making human beings, and if the ultimate being in his infinite infallible-ness can regret life he created (Genesis 6:6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.)."
You're basically saying that The Lord messed up when he made man.
Then occurs The Great Flood, or "The LORD's Great Abortion" the extinction of that human race.
This is why abortion is inevitable and will happen.
God created us to kill.
Whether you religionists want to accept it or not, that is the reality of man and his god.
God is a merciless murderer. God can play the role of satan quite well, after all, The LORD created The Devil from itself!
A messed up god made a messed up thing: the human. Even The LORD knew he messed up!
Arguing about abortion is moot because we humans are so messed up that we will eventually self-extinct, committing "The Second Great Abortion" with nukes this time.
You need to see the irony in you guys fighting each other to death over abortion.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#229028 Apr 11, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
That is what happened to James Robison's mother. She chose to keep her child and he is a renowned minister of the Word of God and an international missionary to the poor, homeless and abused. You never know how God will use someone.
Neither did Dahmer's parents.

Or, you know, maybe they did.

Either way, no fertilized egg was ever guaranteed to live to birth. "God" kills many before they attach to the uterus, and most before they complete gestation.

Abortion is all part of God's plan.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229029 Apr 11, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Certainly if you have predetermined opinions about something and look hard enough, you're sure to find it regardless. You view her response one way, I view it another. Both of us think we know the reality of the situation.
This woman was trying to avoid the question. It’s like when somebody won’t tell the truth because it will hurt their real agenda. You see it all the time in politics. It seems like they do not want babies to be perceived by society as having any value as long as the mother does not want them – if they’re doing it themselves they wouldn’t want it to be perceived as a bad thing. But if we look at it that way, what will that do to the perception of human life in general? Saying that it is OK to kill those who have not put our lives in danger works in the opposite of our survival instinct, because it ultimately puts us all in danger. From the answer that you gave to my question, I don’t actually think that you agree with this spokesperson for PP because at least you respect the right to life for those that are born.

Even though mamma-san seems to agree with this PP spokesperson, PP actually changed their tune when they were faced with public embarrassment after Republican National Committee Chair Reince Priebus criticized the organization's apparent support of infanticide. Priebus wrote "Not once in her testimony did the Planned Parenthood representative say the newborn baby has a right to life. Not once did she say anyone has a duty to care for the child. Whether the living, breathing child survives is up to the adults in the room because, as we now know, Planned Parenthood doesn't believe the baby has rights”. Planned Parenthood's description of the infanticide of abortion survivors as an "extremely unlikely event" came in the same week of the trial of abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell, who is charged with murdering seven babies who survived his attempted abortions. Unbelievable! I tend to believe that PP will continue to kill born children like business as usual.

"If abortion is about women's rights, where were my rights?" Gianna Jessen.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#229030 Apr 11, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't expect you to see the logic in my argument. You have a narrow view of what is selfish and unselfish.
The stage of development is very important in the case of abortion. It's the very reason why abortion is permissible in our society.
When you use the term "pro-abortion" you are not referring to me or anyone on this thread, so your comment there isn't relevant.
I also wouldn't expect you to understand someone else's dilemma. I don't expect you to understand what it would be like in a certain situation. I don't expect you know what it's like to be faced with that dilemma. And more importantly, I don't care if you don't agree or understand it. It's none of your business what I or any woman decides to do when it comes to her body. That's what you forced birthers don't understand.
A fetus is potential life. There's no certainty that there will be any life for that fetus. And there is no such thing as a preborn child, which you've been told a million times, so there's no need to regurgitate that information. Children are born.
There's a bigger picture, you’re only seeing it through the narrow subjective viewpoint of the mother. If we say that it is permissible to kill at a certain level of development, then we are also submitting either to the belief in our recent primitive knowledge of genetics, or to the logic that human life at any stage in it’s development has no importance to us.

If we say it is OK to kill if the mother’s situation is difficult, then we are also saying that we should give up on changing society so that it isn't so difficult that some parents feel that they have to kill their child.

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LightForce

Warren, MI

#229031 Apr 11, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet here you are meddling in other people's personal lives. Quite the hypocrite. And thank you for proving my point.
You forgot to mention what the point is that you actually proved.

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LightForce

Warren, MI

#229032 Apr 11, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
And I repeat, there's no connection between abused women and abortions.
More precisely:

A. In each case there is a human being that is being abused, the unborn child and the abused woman.

B. In each case there is often psychological trauma to a human being, to the abused woman and to the woman who aborted their child.

You’ve already been shown the vast similarities. Are you privy to some other evidence that we don't know about?

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