Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#227904 Mar 30, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
No. It is HER body and hers alone.
And birth control fails.
That's an absolutely false statement both legally and morally.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#227905 Mar 30, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>The fetus becomes able to live outside the womb, the day it lives outside the womb for the first time.
2/3rds of ALL fetuses never get to live outside the womb, most of which are miscarried for whatever reason 'God' decides they aren't viable.
Are you seriously trying to say that an invisible, though supposedly 'omnipotent', entity, should be awarded legal precedent over a living, breathing, fully cognizant, ACTUAL woman's already legal CHOICE?
Seems you only care to apply that theory to the fetuses it kills.
Next...
When did I mention God? Why are you trying to bring a mystical figment of your imagination into a scientific discussion?

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227906 Mar 30, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
I know I'm right when you abandon your argument, stomp your feet, and call names.
What names did I call you?

Abandon my argument? You ain't seen nothin' yet.

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“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227907 Mar 30, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's an absolutely false statement both legally and morally.
Is it fun to be wrong every time you post a thought? You seem to have perfected the process, and I'm just curious.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227908 Mar 30, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
When did I mention God? Why are you trying to bring a mystical figment of your imagination into a scientific discussion?
I thought you might identify with a mystical imaginary being...you being so childlike and searching for answers, and such.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#227910 Mar 30, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Right. So the obvious answer is "kill the baby". If my wife and I lose our job now, does that mean we should be able to kill our kids?
Wait. So it's ok to kill them if they weren't planned.
Got it.
Unbelievable.
I guess if you wanted to kill your kids, that would be a personal choice but I wouldn't recommend it. That would be murder. Abortion isn't murder.

Like I said, either you condone abortion or you stop griping about having to pay tax dollars that go toward caring for unwanted children. You decide. But you can't speak against abortion AND gripe about the underprivileged people who continue to have children despite not being able to afford them. If you do both, you're a hypocrite.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#227911 Mar 30, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not just her body. The body she's killing belongs to he life she chose to create.
Except she didn't choose to create life. Having sex is not choosing to create life.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#227912 Mar 30, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Yes you can. I had two friends who were thinking about abortion,I talked to them from my heart and just told them think about what you are doing. I told them there was help out there for women who find themselves pregnant. I sought out the places here in town and they went to these places and I am happy to say they carried those babies to term and both are doing very well. They got help. One is married now with 3 children,I keep in touch with her and she has told me more than once she is so happy she had this little boy. Every now and then I go to a pantry and get diapers and one pantry has clothes I have taken to her.I do what I can,I do wish I could do more.
So that's two women. What do you do on a larger scale? Do you pass out contraception? Do you offer financial help? Do you volunteer to babysit for women who have to work two jobs or can't afford to pay for daycare? And another question, if one of these women had chosen abortion, how would you have reacted? Would have have shunned them for their choice or would you continued to be their friend despite not agreeing with their decision? I have friends who are also against abortion. However, when faced with my own dilemma, they were completely supportive and did not turn their backs on me. One even went with me to my appointment. My point in all this is that you can have your beliefs. I understand why you feel the way you do. But I don't think you should turn your back on people or tell them they're bad people because your beliefs differ from yours. I would like to think that if one of those women had chosen differently, you would have still been their friend and been supportive.

And thank you for responding. This post of yours was a far cry from some of the ones you've posted. I'd like to see more of these with rational, calm discussions.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#227913 Mar 30, 2013
Whisgean Zoda wrote:
<quoted text>
Two quick questions. 1)Do you live in the US? 2)If so, are elective aboritons paid out of pocket or are they covered by some form of health/medical insurance?
The reason I ask is because I have an issue with women making the claim it's their body, responsibility, choice etc, and then in far too many cases, at least where I live, everyone else gets to pony up for it, no matter the choice.
My solution is to allow one elective freebie. Everyone makes mistakes, some bigger than others, and birth control isn't always 100% effective.
HOWEVER...any abortions after that would require the individual to sign a waiver BEFORE the procedure giving permission for themselves to be "fixed" after the procedure.
If they don't want to sign, then they get pay for the abortion themselves.
I don't have a moral objection to abortion per se, I DO have a moral objection when it becomes an "Oh shit, not again!" method of birth control.
Very rarely are abortions covered by insurance.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#227914 Mar 30, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's an absolutely false statement both legally and morally.
If a parent gives their underage child a beer, or a cigarette or a drug, they will go to jail, correct? Yet, if a pregnant woman drinks, smokes cigarettes or does drugs, she will not be arrested for endangering her fetus. That fact disproves your statement.
LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227915 Mar 30, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
And laws change as our society changes and realizes some laws are archaic. It used to be legal for a man to beat his wife with something as long as it was thicker than his thumb or on the courthouse steps as long as it was a Sunday. They've been designated as ridiculous laws and have since been abandoned. Just like we as a society realized it was ridiculous to outlaw abortion. There are probably still people out there who think it should be legal to beat your wife. Doesn't mean that's right.
What do beating your wife and having an abortion have in common?

Answer: They both violate the inherent rights of an individual human being. In other words, if we know that it is wrong to do something to ourselves, then we should also know that it is wrong to do it to somebody else. Wife beaters and abortionists were/are either ignorant, or were/are only concerned about their own self-interests.

You are accurate in that they can easily change their minds again, and again, and again, but we must realize that the only way we can ensure the rights of everybody is to not exclude ANYBODY based on race, gender, disability, age, stage of development, state of dependency, place of residence or amount of property. Ignorance of this very basic principle disqualifies anybody from having the ability to make any rational, or reasonable decision about it.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#227916 Mar 30, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Is it fun to be wrong every time you post a thought? You seem to have perfected the process, and I'm just curious.
Saying I'm wrong isn't the same as proving I'm wrong. Nice try, though.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#227917 Mar 30, 2013
zander714 wrote:
If a woman is raped by a criminal thug should she be forced to have his baby?
Is the baby any less human?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#227918 Mar 30, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess if you wanted to kill your kids, that would be a personal choice but I wouldn't recommend it. That would be murder. Abortion isn't murder.
Like I said, either you condone abortion or you stop griping about having to pay tax dollars that go toward caring for unwanted children. You decide. But you can't speak against abortion AND gripe about the underprivileged people who continue to have children despite not being able to afford them. If you do both, you're a hypocrite.
Like I said, your bad choices aren't my responsibility.

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LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227919 Mar 30, 2013
MoonLitSnow wrote:
Here's my problem...If life is so sacred then how is the life of an unborn child anymore important then a drug addict? Drug addicts aren't born will a pipe in their mouth? Felon's don't come from the womb ready to steal kill and rob. They grow up, are influenced by the environment around them and they change. Do people not realize that those children will grow up and probably be someone you don't even life, respect, or value in the least? If someone wants to claim that life is so F*&^ing precious then make that same argument about people who are already here suffering everyday, trying to scrape out a living. The argument for value of life should be main for all not just cute little unborn babes. Argue that ..PLEASE!
If we argue for the rights of one person, then those rights should also apply to everybody. One of the foundations of pro-life views is to understand that we all share the same fate, and must be subject to the same rights and laws regardless of race, gender, disability, age, stage of development, state of dependency, place of residence or amount of property. We can't forget that inevitably we are all vulnerable, and that the strong must protect the weak. I am thoroughly convinced that much of the injustices we see materialize in our society is a direct result of the old ideas that are still being pushed by the pro-abortion movement, and that have always degraded the importance of human life. There has always been some segment of society viewed as less equal than another, but once we, as a society, view ALL human beings as important and deserving of the same inherent rights, we will also more likely see OURSELVES viewed by others as being important.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#227920 Mar 30, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Except she didn't choose to create life. Having sex is not choosing to create life.
No. It's accepting the risk that you may create life.

A fairly simple concept.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#227921 Mar 30, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
If a parent gives their underage child a beer, or a cigarette or a drug, they will go to jail, correct? Yet, if a pregnant woman drinks, smokes cigarettes or does drugs, she will not be arrested for endangering her fetus. That fact disproves your statement.
No it doesn't. Just as a murder conviction for the death of an unborn child doesn't necessarily prove it.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#227922 Mar 30, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
What do beating your wife and having an abortion have in common?
Answer: They both violate the inherent rights of an individual human being. In other words, if we know that it is wrong to do something to ourselves, then we should also know that it is wrong to do it to somebody else. Wife beaters and abortionists were/are either ignorant, or were/are only concerned about their own self-interests.
You are accurate in that they can easily change their minds again, and again, and again, but we must realize that the only way we can ensure the rights of everybody is to not exclude ANYBODY based on race, gender, disability, age, stage of development, state of dependency, place of residence or amount of property. Ignorance of this very basic principle disqualifies anybody from having the ability to make any rational, or reasonable decision about it.
Beating one's wife and abortion has nothing in common. Nothing at all.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#227923 Mar 30, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Saying I'm wrong isn't the same as proving I'm wrong. Nice try, though.
You're still using that old response. You need some new material. I was even wondering how long it would take for you to pull that out. Instead of positing an argument, you use that. It's not an argument.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Westerville, OH

#227924 Mar 30, 2013
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, your bad choices aren't my responsibility.
Then you should be in favor of abortion. Because you don't want to take responsibility for the bad choices people always have and always will make, you are saying that you'd rather them not bring life into this world that you will pay for.

In my opinion, I'd rather my tax dollars be used to care for a child than be used for something less helpful for humanity as a whole.

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