There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#227810 Mar 23, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a child. You completely ignore any logical moral basis of the argument, which is the only reason that there would be an argument in the first place. You believe that the mother can simply kill the preborn child at will, and your reasoning is for the most part because of the “inferiority” of the preborn child.
Nope, it's a wad of goo that may or may not develop even if it's wanted and cherished. WAD OF GOO. Cells with no sentience or life of its own. And none of YOUR business since it is NOT your uterus, not your body and not your pregnancy.
When it is, then you can make your own decision about it, but that won't change the fact that it is just a wad of goo and potential at that stage, and not a child.

Judged:

56

56

53

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!
LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227811 Mar 23, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>I gotta ask: is this an application for the job of "womb investigator" once President Rand Paul's Department of Wombland Security is established?
The concepts you are espousing have logical consequences in practice. Are you prepared to consider miscarriage a criminal offense? Who is going to determine whether or not the individual cycle of each woman in the country, has not yielded a fertilized ovum each month (or two...would that menstruating woman whose uterus failed to nurture and gestate these fertilized eggs, then be a serial killer?) Will you be regulating each pregnancy, to assure the fetus is free from 'endangerment' by the woman's behavior? Investigating whether or not she is properly restrained, to avoid contact with organisms which may interfere with her pregnancy?
Should the products of conception be assigned social security numbers? Shall the courts recognize their rights to assemble, speak freely, own a firearm?
Where does it end?
No need to worry, ObamaCare's already taken care of all that for you. But seriously, you're talking about the implications of laws, some that would be difficult if not impossible to enforce. But common sense should always prevail.

Laws are put into place as a means for us to shape our communities in a way that is in the best interest of all of its citizens, without infringing on the rights of any individuals. If at any time it is seen that by using the strict letter of that law, it would either cause an individual undo hardship, or infringe on any individuals right, an exception, or alternative can be found that is in accordance with the SPIRIT of the law. In this case laws have to take into consideration the rights of at least two people.

Here's just a few common sense rules that I think should be remembered:

1 - Laws should not be made because they are practical, but because they are the right thing to do.

2 - Generally speaking, until there is a problem that may cause harm to another – in this case the fetus, there is no moral, or valid reason to take away any of a persons rights.

3 - Life is the most important right, because without life there can be no present, or future value in that life, so would make all other rights obsolete.

4 - The good should outweigh the bad, and each individual case should be respectfully measured.

5 - Criminals don't obey laws, but laws can persuade the inherently lawful.

Judged:

52

52

51

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!
LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227812 Mar 23, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there any chance that the mother can survive if the fetus is aborted? Then morality REQUIRES that the fetus be aborted. A potential life NEVER outweighs a realized life.
I read of a case where the mother of two existing children had an illness that could have been treated, but would prove fatal to the fetus if she did. She and her husband decided that she would commit suicide so that the fetus could gestate to term. Soon after giving birth, she died leaving her husband alone with three children, one a newborn.
I consider her a disgusting mother, and neither of them fit to be parents. The choice they made was HIGHLY immoral and based on purely selfish "religious" motives.
<quoted text>
Simple: is the mother pretty much guaranteed to die, either way? Then save the fetus. Any other case, it is just a wad of goo, and is nowhere near equal in value to that of a real live human being.
<quoted text>
I have already said that the soul enters at birth. And the soul can be separated from the body, we call that "death".
<quoted text>
1) From the point of view from my religion, the soul enters the body as a way to learn. Exiting the body ends any possibility for growth and learning.
2) The Bible supports my point on this, that only after the soul enters the body does the body have full worth. Heck, in the Bible, a kid less than 8 days old isn't even counted as a person yet...
<quoted text>
I think that I just did...
<quoted text>
No, it is not just the soul, or just the body, but the UNION of body and soul that has importance. Either alone is, for this discussion, effectively worthless.
Three Part Response

1 - Please support this claim that the Bible says a kid less than eight-days-old isn't counted as a person - or are you talking about a goat? Your views about the worth of a fetus according to the Bible are totally ficticious. Even though it doesn't actually come right out and say that “a fetus is a person”, the Bible gives every indication that a fetus is considered to be a person.

2 - Previously you said that “Given two persons and the chance to save only one, the most moral choice is to save the one with the best chance of survival.” Now your view is that regardless of the prospects for the life of either, unless the mother is guaranteed to die, you would kill the child, knowing that in all probability there will be no FUTURE for either of them. Most of what we do for our children is based on their FUTURE, and if we know at least that their FUTURE does exist, when we are deciding on the actual FUTURES of people it shouldn't make any difference on when that FUTURE is. Even if you believe that a fetus has no value at the present, you should still be able to understand that we don't always base the importance of life on the present moment.

3 - We have two different, but very similar viewpoints:

A. The body and the soul begin as seperate entities, then unite to become a “person” after birth.

B. A sperm and an egg begin as seperate entities, then unite to become a “person” after conception.

You are basing the importance of a human being, at least to a large extent on when you believe that the soul enters the body. Why debate that? It should be obvious to everbody that it's at the moment of conception. I think though since it is only a belief, and with the possibility of many unforeseen variables, we shouldn't place too much importance on that event alone. Until there is any type of proof as to the nature of the soul, and when it enters the body, it can't be logically debated either way in this discussion.

Judged:

51

51

51

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!
LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227813 Mar 23, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
If a human being had the sentience of a 12 day old fetus, then it would indeed be moral to euthanize them, a blessing for all concerned.
As light-hearted and humorous as this might seem, I hope that you are assuming that this would be a permanent state, unlike that of a twelve-day-old, who in all probability would have a valuable and productive life ahead of them.

Judged:

42

41

40

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227814 Mar 23, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
No need to worry, ObamaCare's already taken care of all that for you. But seriously, you're talking about the implications of laws, some that would be difficult if not impossible to enforce. But common sense should always prevail.
Laws are put into place as a means for us to shape our communities in a way that is in the best interest of all of its citizens, without infringing on the rights of any individuals. If at any time it is seen that by using the strict letter of that law, it would either cause an individual undo hardship, or infringe on any individuals right, an exception, or alternative can be found that is in accordance with the SPIRIT of the law. In this case laws have to take into consideration the rights of at least two people.
Here's just a few common sense rules that I think should be remembered:
1 - Laws should not be made because they are practical, but because they are the right thing to do.
2 - Generally speaking, until there is a problem that may cause harm to another – in this case the fetus, there is no moral, or valid reason to take away any of a persons rights.
3 - Life is the most important right, because without life there can be no present, or future value in that life, so would make all other rights obsolete.
4 - The good should outweigh the bad, and each individual case should be respectfully measured.
5 - Criminals don't obey laws, but laws can persuade the inherently lawful.
Laws establishing 'personhood' for fetuses, will cause great harm to women. Therefore, they will never be passed.

If they couldn't even get it done in Mississippi, don't expect it to fly in Oregon, Vermont, or any other state.

Judged:

52

52

51

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!
Lumbhia

Colorado Springs, CO

#227815 Mar 23, 2013
M-S baby killer.
She loves killing babies, killing feti, and killing zygotes.

Judged:

22

22

22

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!
Nansamam Okcaw

Colorado Springs, CO

#227816 Mar 23, 2013
She is a sicko.
She loves killing babies, killing feti, and killing zygotes.

Judged:

17

16

16

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Columbus, OH

#227821 Mar 23, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
No need to worry, ObamaCare's already taken care of all that for you. But seriously, you're talking about the implications of laws, some that would be difficult if not impossible to enforce. But common sense should always prevail.
Laws are put into place as a means for us to shape our communities in a way that is in the best interest of all of its citizens, without infringing on the rights of any individuals. If at any time it is seen that by using the strict letter of that law, it would either cause an individual undo hardship, or infringe on any individuals right, an exception, or alternative can be found that is in accordance with the SPIRIT of the law. In this case laws have to take into consideration the rights of at least two people.
Here's just a few common sense rules that I think should be remembered:
1 - Laws should not be made because they are practical, but because they are the right thing to do.
2 - Generally speaking, until there is a problem that may cause harm to another – in this case the fetus, there is no moral, or valid reason to take away any of a persons rights.
3 - Life is the most important right, because without life there can be no present, or future value in that life, so would make all other rights obsolete.
4 - The good should outweigh the bad, and each individual case should be respectfully measured.
5 - Criminals don't obey laws, but laws can persuade the inherently lawful.
And laws change as our society changes and realizes some laws are archaic. It used to be legal for a man to beat his wife with something as long as it was thicker than his thumb or on the courthouse steps as long as it was a Sunday. They've been designated as ridiculous laws and have since been abandoned. Just like we as a society realized it was ridiculous to outlaw abortion. There are probably still people out there who think it should be legal to beat your wife. Doesn't mean that's right.

Judged:

45

44

43

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Live & Learn”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#227822 Mar 23, 2013
Here's my problem...If life is so sacred then how is the life of an unborn child anymore important then a drug addict? Drug addicts aren't born will a pipe in their mouth? Felon's don't come from the womb ready to steal kill and rob. They grow up, are influenced by the environment around them and they change. Do people not realize that those children will grow up and probably be someone you don't even life, respect, or value in the least? If someone wants to claim that life is so F*&^ing precious then make that same argument about people who are already here suffering everyday, trying to scrape out a living. The argument for value of life should be main for all not just cute little unborn babes. Argue that ..PLEASE!

Judged:

33

33

22

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Live & Learn”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#227823 Mar 23, 2013
The Advocate wrote:
<quoted text>
Same thing goes with gay adoptions...children being denied to people who are perfectly capable of being good parents yet are denied because they're gay, and the kids end up bearing that load by getting sent to some shitfaced (but straight!) parents:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/24/oklahoma....
Here here...

Judged:

30

30

29

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Ignore the trolls”

Since: Oct 08

Bath, UK

#227824 Mar 23, 2013
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
As light-hearted and humorous as this might seem, I hope that you are assuming that this would be a permanent state, unlike that of a twelve-day-old, who in all probability would have a valuable and productive life ahead of them.
Not this irrelevancy yet again. Could be an Einstein, could be a Hitler. Is not, and never has been relevant to the issue. AS for your claim that the Bible implies a foetus is a person - utter rubbish, it does not. Otr have you now become the interpreter of what you think is in it?

Judged:

40

40

39

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!
Rainin

Salem, AR

#227826 Mar 25, 2013
tony1003 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not this irrelevancy yet again. Could be an Einstein, could be a Hitler. Is not, and never has been relevant to the issue. AS for your claim that the Bible implies a foetus is a person - utter rubbish, it does not. Otr have you now become the interpreter of what you think is in it?
Hey Tony...:)

“1 John 4:4”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#227828 Mar 26, 2013
tony1003 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not this irrelevancy yet again. Could be an Einstein, could be a Hitler. Is not, and never has been relevant to the issue. AS for your claim that the Bible implies a foetus is a person - utter rubbish, it does not. Otr have you now become the interpreter of what you think is in it?
Sorry Tony but when you can read English, you don't need an interpreter.
I see it very clearly that it says God knew you when you were in the womb.
If he knew YOU, he knew a person. A person begins as a fetus.
This isn't rocket science.
God said it's wrong! Some people will have words with Jesus over this topic and guess what?
He'll let you know who was right and who wasn't.
Yes, we'll all go before him one day! Yep, even you!!
When he says to you, "I know you not," get ready for the heat!!
It ain't ever going away!!

Judged:

28

28

27

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227830 Mar 26, 2013
lilaclady wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Tony but when you can read English, you don't need an interpreter.
I see it very clearly that it says God knew you when you were in the womb.
If he knew YOU, he knew a person. A person begins as a fetus.
This isn't rocket science.
God said it's wrong! Some people will have words with Jesus over this topic and guess what?
He'll let you know who was right and who wasn't.
Yes, we'll all go before him one day! Yep, even you!!
When he says to you, "I know you not," get ready for the heat!!
It ain't ever going away!!
Fundies eventually get to the threats.

Always.

Judged:

19

19

18

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#227831 Mar 26, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Fundies eventually get to the threats.
Always.
A fundie threatening anyone with "fire" or "hell" is like a child threatening an adult about Santa not coming.

Judged:

20

20

20

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!
Doctor REALITY

Little Rock, AR

#227833 Mar 26, 2013
Are you PREGNANT??! Are you planning to ABORT the life inside your womb??! When,and or if,you do,the same person before whom you will stand on Judgement Day......will be WATCHING YOU when you enter that abortion clinic. Do you REALIZE that?! When,and or if,you go to that abortion clinic so that some evil,fake poor excuse for a DOCTOR can assist you in the MURDER of your child,I hope,in your spirit,you visualize the Lord Jesus Christ on the Holy Cross of Calvary as you prepare to allow your child to be MURDERED in an abortion clinic! Just keepin' it R-E-A-L,SISTA'!!

Judged:

20

20

20

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227834 Mar 26, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
A fundie threatening anyone with "fire" or "hell" is like a child threatening an adult about Santa not coming.
What I need to know, in order to even BEGIN to take these whackaloons seriously, is: Why does an all-powerful omniscient entity need help from them to fight his battles, defend his policies, or spread his message?

You'd think an all-powerful omniscient being would take care of all that on its own....

Judged:

21

21

20

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227835 Mar 26, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
Are you PREGNANT??! Are you planning to ABORT the life inside your womb??! When,and or if,you do,the same person before whom you will stand on Judgement Day......will be WATCHING YOU when you enter that abortion clinic. Do you REALIZE that?! When,and or if,you go to that abortion clinic so that some evil,fake poor excuse for a DOCTOR can assist you in the MURDER of your child,I hope,in your spirit,you visualize the Lord Jesus Christ on the Holy Cross of Calvary as you prepare to allow your child to be MURDERED in an abortion clinic! Just keepin' it R-E-A-L,SISTA'!!
Go gestate something, Doc.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#227836 Mar 26, 2013
Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>Go gestate something, Doc.
Because "jesus" isn't watching them when they poop? Or have sex?

*rolling my eyes*

Judged:

19

19

19

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Ignore the trolls”

Since: Oct 08

Bath, UK

#227837 Mar 26, 2013
lilaclady wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Tony but when you can read English, you don't need an interpreter.
I see it very clearly that it says God knew you when you were in the womb.
If he knew YOU, he knew a person. A person begins as a fetus.
This isn't rocket science.
God said it's wrong! Some people will have words with Jesus over this topic and guess what?
He'll let you know who was right and who wasn't.
Yes, we'll all go before him one day! Yep, even you!!
When he says to you, "I know you not," get ready for the heat!!
It ain't ever going away!!
As you have absolutely no idea of what my religion might be, suggest you refer to Matthew 7 vs 1 and follow the instruction there. Frankly, if heaven was to include people like you, I'd rather toast my feet - but fortunately, it won't.

Judged:

22

22

17

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Plurality of Americans think Trump is failing 2 min Mr Wiggley 16,890
God is REAL - Miracles Happen! (Jun '11) 35 min Tony 6,418
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 42 min Trumpler 983,198
We need better RideShare in Austin 1 hr RideshareDriverLi... 1
O.J. Simpson is about to be a free man once again. 4 hr Doctor REALITY 29
slaves and slave masters within philadelphia's ... 5 hr Laura 5
So how exactly did O.J. Simpson pull off a doub... 6 hr Doctor REALITY 27
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 7 hr Anthony MN 683,876
More from around the web