There is Everything Wrong with Abortion
moonie

Greensboro, NC

#227783 Mar 21, 2013
I see the clueless ones have been judged as helpful and interesting. Nothing is farther from the truth. That's really sad. I guess you can't fix stupidity.

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The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

#227784 Mar 21, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
I love what you posted on FB (paraphrased)
"Telling nonbelievers that god will send them to hell is like a child telling an adult that Santa won't bring them any presents"
What's also really repulsive is that they shove their version of Christianity down peoples' throats on the threat of "eternal damnation" instead of calmly commenting on "loving thy neighbour." Her kind of fanatic are religious out of fear of a fictional state of being rather than out of a sense of peace with one self and identification with a certain set of beliefs -- which is really sad considering I've met many nice Christians of all denominations who're very respectful of others, even if they disagree with a lot.

Religion is like a penis -- it's fine to have one, it's fine to be proud of it, but it SHOULDN'T be waved around in public or shoved down peoples' throats.

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moonie

Charlotte, NC

#227785 Mar 21, 2013
Thank you for validating me, Susan. I am right. You are clueless.

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Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#227786 Mar 22, 2013
NWmoon wrote:
<quoted text>You really are a worthless pile of waste. So when are you going to drag that dead daughter out to try and garner more sympathy for yourself? I'm sure she drove straight into that truck just to get herself rid of any association with you.
You are such a B*TCH!!!

Go to H*LL

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“Ignore the trolls”

Since: Oct 08

Bath, UK

#227787 Mar 22, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>You are such a B*TCH!!!
Go to H*LL
Shining Christian respomse. Do you ever look at the very first post you put on this thread? You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk, which in anybody's book can only be regarded as hypocrisy.

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Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#227788 Mar 22, 2013
tony1003 wrote:
<quoted text>
Shining Christian respomse. Do you ever look at the very first post you put on this thread? You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk, which in anybody's book can only be regarded as hypocrisy.
whatever

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“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#227789 Mar 22, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>You are such a B*TCH!!!
Go to H*LL
Odd. One could (and does) say exactly the same thing about you.

No come backs Lippy?? No clever comments? Your cucumber must've stayed in the fridge last night.

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Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#227790 Mar 22, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Odd. One could (and does) say exactly the same thing about you.
No come backs Lippy?? No clever comments? Your cucumber must've stayed in the fridge last night.
Do you honestly think I care what you say to me? You are delusional.Go take your meds and get to work. Again you are stealing your bosses money. You are trash,always have been and always will be. Better yet go stuff your face with food and put on a few more pounds. Thats what you do best:)

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“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#227791 Mar 22, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>Do you honestly think I care what you say to me? You are delusional.Go take your meds and get to work. Again you are stealing your bosses money. You are trash,always have been and always will be. Better yet go stuff your face with food and put on a few more pounds. Thats what you do best:)
1. I've never thought that you care what me, or anyone else, thinks of you. That's obvious by your filthy mouth and the really deviant things you've accused me of.

2. I take my blood pressure meds at a specific time of day. It's not time yet.

3. I don't begin work 'til 6 a.m. It's now 5:01 a.m.

4. Keep up the comments about my weight. I love it. It shows how little you know. However, it is breakfast time. So you can virtually hump my leg as you imagine me eating a healthy breakfast. That should make your pathetic day.

You have a lovely day LIPpy and don't forget to beg your god to forgive you for the nasty things you say every time you post to this forum.

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“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#227792 Mar 22, 2013
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I've never thought that you care what me, or anyone else, thinks of you. That's obvious by your filthy mouth and the really deviant things you've accused me of.
2. I take my blood pressure meds at a specific time of day. It's not time yet.
3. I don't begin work 'til 6 a.m. It's now 5:01 a.m.
4. Keep up the comments about my weight. I love it. It shows how little you know. However, it is breakfast time. So you can virtually hump my leg as you imagine me eating a healthy breakfast. That should make your pathetic day.
You have a lovely day LIPpy and don't forget to beg your god to forgive you for the nasty things you say every time you post to this forum.
Sometimes I just feel sorry for her. She must be so filled with anger and hate and jealousy. What else could spark such enraged fits? I've never seen someone have so much animosity for someone they don't even know. WHO CARES enough to put forth that much energy about someone on a Topix thread? lol Poor lady. So sad.

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“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Hightstown, NJ

#227793 Mar 22, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>whatever
I take this as admission that you know you act in a very un-Christianlike manner and that you care nothing about it. So feel free to never bring up your religion as a reason why you feel abortion is wrong.

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“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#227795 Mar 22, 2013
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes I just feel sorry for her. She must be so filled with anger and hate and jealousy. What else could spark such enraged fits? I've never seen someone have so much animosity for someone they don't even know. WHO CARES enough to put forth that much energy about someone on a Topix thread? lol Poor lady. So sad.
Much of her problem is that she has Bi-Polar Disorder. She tends to visit her when she's manic. I don't know if she takes her meds regularly, or if they need to be regulated.

Regardless, it's no excuse for her behavior.

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Doctor REALITY

United States

#227796 Mar 22, 2013
Abortion is EVIL. Abortion is MURDER. Abortion is....OF THE DEVIL.

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“Ignore the trolls”

Since: Oct 08

Bath, UK

#227797 Mar 22, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
Abortion is EVIL. Abortion is MURDER. Abortion is....OF THE DEVIL.
Perhaps you need a dose of your own name (leaving aside the doctor bit - for you have no medical background and are far too stupid to have ever earned a PhD), for your own planet is not of this world. Btw, how is planet Zog these days? Do you have Lord of the Rings? Perhaps I could quote that to justify any bull I wish to post one here? Try to find out what the word murder means - clue for imbeciles - look in a dictionary.

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moonie

Cary, NC

#227798 Mar 22, 2013
Thank you for providing us with your information. Your info will be shared with the Topix administrators.
www.stopcyberbullying.gov
Overcomebullying.org

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Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#227799 Mar 22, 2013
Life is Precious wrote:
<quoted text>You are such a B*TCH!!!
Go to H*LL
LOL!! And no toys from Santa?? LOL!

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LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227801 Mar 22, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you call the Aztec example ignorance? They had just as much evidence to support their beliefs as you have to support yours.
There is no doubt that ignorance played a huge role in the Aztec customs. Many societies still today do not have access to the diverse amount of knowledge that we and most other developed Nations possess, so I doubt that the Aztecs had access to the same amount of knowledge that we do. Note:“Two of the primary architects of the Aztec empire were the half-brothers Tlacaelal and Montezuma I, nephews of Itzcoatl. Moctezuma I succeeded Itzcoatl as Hueyi Tlatoani in 1440. Although he was also offered the opportunity to be tlatoani , Tlacaelel preferred to operate as the power behind the throne. Tlacaelel reformed the Aztec state and religion. According to some sources, he ordered the burning of most of the extant Aztec books claiming that they contained lies. He thereupon rewrote the history of the Aztec people, thus creating a common awareness of history for the Aztecs. This rewriting led directly to the curriculum taught to scholars and promoted the belief that the Aztecs were always a powerful and mythic nation; forgetting forever a possible true history of modest origins. One component of this reform was the institution of ritual war (the flower wars) as a way to have trained warriors, and created the necessity of constant sacrifices to keep the Sun moving.”(Wikipedia)

The Aztec commoners were obviously kept in ignorance and in fear of the dark, but this was common to many religions, and they perceived a sacrifice as a way that would save themselves, rationalizing that if their god desires people to die and somebody else died instead of them, they might continue to live - at least a while longer. In the past it was even a common practice for merchants to go from village to village selling slaves for the purpose of sacrifice. It was noted in one ancient Roman document that a certain seller of slaves for sacrifice complained of having a difficult time selling his “merchandise” whenever he would go through a Christian neighborhood.

Today even the commoner has more ideas and historical data to compare due to the printing press(books), television, radio, internet, etc., which has made a big difference in the way we view the world. Back then most of the information that was known came from those who were in power, and you knew only what they knew, or what they wanted you to know. Much of the world is still like this, and any political powers can be just as subjective. There were what you call “true believers”, but they very often were forced to confess to a certain belief or die, so they usually only believed what they were allowed to believe, or know by the power class.

For much of the world religion was and is also the government, so therefore rule to maintain power like any political government does, but maybe a little more dictatorial. The Aztec people may have thought that their leaders were doing good for them, but we can now see that their ignorance resulted in the suffering of countless people. We don't have that in America to that extreme today with the separation of church and state, but in other areas of the world there is still ignorance and persecution of this magnitude going on. Today in America there is a relatively free exchange of ideas, and easy access to information for virtually everybody, but we are and dangerously moving toward more and more censorship in what we are allowed to know.

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LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227802 Mar 22, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Was Torquemada just a sadistic bastard looking for any excuse to torture and kill? Or was he a man driven to extremes in his efforts to protect church and country from Evil, while doing his best to save the souls of those deluded enough to err and stray from the "One True Path".
Sure, it is easy now for us to say that xianity is a false religion, so anyone that killed to preserve it was horribly wrong and evil. But the fact remains that Torquemada though that he was doing the best possible thing for those he tortured, since if he could get them to confess and recant their errors, and then immediately kill them so they could not backslide, they would still manage to get into Heaven. Thus, he was keeping them out of an eternity of Hell for the mere price of extreme agony for a few hours or days.
(EDITED FOR SPACE)

What we're really talking about here is politics, and to a politician the end usually justifies the means, and the end is usually to stay in power whether for their own self-interest, or for what they might even perceive as ethical reasons. In my mind it is a politicians job to attempt to achieve the greatest good for the people that they serve , while avoiding at all reasonable cost the infringement on the inherent rights of those people, or for that matter on the inherent rights of any other people. Torquemada's fault was that he used his authority/power to infringe on the the most important inherent right's that a person can have, life. Sometimes just the state of having too much power can drive a person to go too far.

Let's look at this scenario through your skewed version of what discourse might have taken place:

Although Torquemada's goal may have been to do ultimate good, in his mind, by helping Roman Catholicism maintain control of power so he could continue torturing innocent people to save their souls, there is also evidence to suggest that his priority was merely to rid the countryside of non-believers in order to maintain power. His motives are also questionable in this version, for example, if it is best to kill somebody immediately after confessing so that they could not backslide, then that means it would also be in the best interest of every believer to be immediately killed in order to avoid the prospect of them ever backsliding. So in this example he used subjective reasoning, or a double-standard. Based on this logic, it's likely that self-interest was more of a motivation than was his duty to God. Also consider that he would have had to break God's law every time he killed, especially now that they were fellow believers, so it would only have been out of ignorance if he was doing it to please God. No, the people were probably tortured and killed as examples to the rest of the “sheeple”, and to help persuade the other non-believers to leave the Country.

People should be free to think and teach whatever they believe, but that wasn't the case here. What we have here is a marriage of religious/political, fanatical dictators, who, without following any moral guidelines, were willing to by any means possible maintain their power. Forcing somebody to convert at the threat of death is, and has been common throughout the history of politics. Just as an example, it's interesting that even today in China and many other countries as well, Christians among others are forced to denounce their religion/belief or face prison, torture or death. We see that when large corporations have power to do whatever they want to, the result favors the corporations at an ever increasing expense to the common people.(See the example of Apple Corp in China) Power is a corrupting force regardless of whether it is a religious power, a political power, or an individual with power. Guantanamo Bay is a recent case in point which shows that not only the more freedom you give someone to abuse another, but also the longer that they have that power, the more abusive they become.

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LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227803 Mar 22, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Was Torquemada just a sadistic bastard looking for any excuse to torture and kill? Or was he a man driven to extremes in his efforts to protect church and country from Evil, while doing his best to save the souls of those deluded enough to err and stray from the "One True Path".
Sure, it is easy now for us to say that xianity is a false religion, so anyone that killed to preserve it was horribly wrong and evil. But the fact remains that Torquemada though that he was doing the best possible thing for those he tortured, since if he could get them to confess and recant their errors, and then immediately kill them so they could not backslide, they would still manage to get into Heaven. Thus, he was keeping them out of an eternity of Hell for the mere price of extreme agony for a few days.
(EDITED FOR SPACE)

What we're really talking about here is politics, and to a politician the end usually justifies the means, and the end is usually to stay in power whether for their own self-interest, or for what they might even perceive as ethical reasons. In my mind it is a politicians job to attempt to achieve the greatest good for the people that they serve , while avoiding at all reasonable cost the infringement on the inherent rights of those people, or for that matter on the inherent rights of any other people. Torquemada's fault was that he used his authority/power to infringe on the the most important inherent right's that a person can have - life. Sometimes just the state of having too much power can drive a person to go too far.

Let's look at this scenario through your skewed version of what discourse might have taken place:
Although Torquemada's goal may have been to do ultimate good, in his mind, by helping Roman Catholicism maintain control of power so he could continue torturing innocent people to save their souls, there is also evidence to suggest that his priority was merely to rid the countryside of non-believers in order to maintain power. In your version of what transpired, his motives are questionable, for example, if it is best to kill somebody immediately after confessing so that they could not backslide, then that means it would also be in the best interest of every believer to be immediately killed in order to avoid the prospect of them ever backsliding. So in this example he used subjective reasoning, or a double-standard. Based on this logic, it's likely that self-interest was more of a motivation than was his duty to God. Also consider that he would have had to break God's law every time he killed, especially now that they were fellow believers, so it would only have been out of ignorance if he was doing it to please God. No, the people were probably tortured and killed as examples to the rest of the “sheeple”, and to help persuade the other non-believers to leave the Country.

People should be free to think and teach whatever they believe, but that wasn't the case here. What we have here is a marriage of religious/political, fanatical dictators, who, without following any moral guidelines, were willing to by any means possible maintain their power. Forcing somebody to convert at the threat of death is, and has been common throughout the history of politics. Just as an example, it's interesting that even today in China and many other countries as well, Christians among others are forced to denounce their religion/belief or face prison, torture or death. We see that when large corporations have power to do whatever they want to, the result favors the corporations at an ever increasing expense of the common people.(See the example of Apple Corp.in China) Power is a corrupting force regardless of whether it is a religious power, a political power, or an individual with power. Guantanamo Bay is a recent case in point which shows that not only the more freedom you give someone to abuse another, but also the longer that they have that power, the more abusive they become.

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LightForce

Rockford, MI

#227804 Mar 22, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no OBJECTIVE standard that proves any reason to deny abortion. Since it IS an objective fact that the majority of fertilized eggs will never survive to reach live birth, any purely objective standard MUST be impartial with regards to both natural (or spontaneous) and artificial abortions.
Objective AND moral is the key. What you are inferring is that what I said is the equivalent of saying that we need to sacrifice unborn children in order to satisfy the “nature god”, but that's not what I said. Rather than helping nature to do it's job, we are actually trying to apply fair standards and ethical equality to all human beings. When you base your standards on the former you're reffering to the idea of eugenics, which coincidentally is also the general philosophy driving the pro-abortion agenda.

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