There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

[MoonWind Dancer]

Man of Science wrote:

<quoted text>That's terrible! I'm so sorry...I didn't know her as well as many of the people her; but if you're in touch with her cousin, could you please tell them that Will (me, obviously) sends them his condolences and is so sorry for their loss? Thank you.

I did. Just haven't had time to respond to your post. Thank you.

[MoonWind Dancer]

Mpnf1979 wrote:

Unfortunately, my happiness was short-lived. After my consideration, I decided to terminate my pregnancy. There were many factors, one being that my boyfriend of 7 years decided to move to Kuwait (he left today) for a job that would take him out of the picture for the next year. I moved to where I live now because he moved here to be closer to his daughter. I have no support system, no family (they're hours away) and I'd basically be going through an entire pregnancy and delivery by myself, not to mention caring the a baby by myself. Furthermore, we already had a rocky relationship, but I found out some information about him that made me realize that having a child with him would be the worst possible decision I could ever make. So today I made the right decision for me and ended my pregnancy. It's unfortunate, but I can't say that I was anything but confident that this was the absolute best decision. I just thought I would tell some of you since I had already told you all and I'm sure I'd be getting questions about how everything was going. I don't expect most people to understand, but as we've all discussed on here so many times, no one can make that decision but ourselves.

My love and thoughts are with you. If you need anything, message me.
Blessed Be,
MWD

[MoonWind Dancer]

Ocean56 wrote:

If girls and women think school or work is hard now, they should know that becoming a mother will be ten times harder. Many mothers and grandmothers don’t tell young girls and women in their family exactly how hard motherhood truly is, for reasons known only to them. I strongly disagree with the practice of keeping girls in ignorance of this. I believe they NEED to know what being a mother will require of them, so they can make an informed decision about being a mother, even if it means some girls will decide not to be mothers at any point in their lives. That is just fine if some don't want to be mothers. Not all girls or women are suited to be moms, and choosing NOT to be a mother is just as valid as the choice to be one.
Some of the hardships mothers of all ages will face once a baby arrives include -- but are not limited to -- the following:
1. Loss of Freedom
2. Loss of Sleep
3. Loss of money
4. Loss of education and job/career opportunities
5. Loss of mobility
6. Loss of private time
7. Dealing with colic
There is no escaping the fact that becoming a mother makes a girl’s/woman's life much HARDER and she loses most, if not all, of the benefits and comforts she had before she got pregnant. Too many girls/women are PRESSURED into having children by family members and/or religious community, and purposely aren't told just how very hard motherhood is until AFTER they have had a baby. I think it is high time that changed. If some girls/women decide they don't want the hardships of motherhood, that is fine. The choice for a woman to be childfree is just as valid and respectable as the choice to be a mother.

Wonderful post!

may I add to this, most women, especially young ones, don't think about the fact that the child could be born with handicaps.
As the Mom of a mentally handicapped son, let me tell you, life has not been a piece of cake. True, I wouldn't trade my son for anything in the world NOW, but, there have been times I sincerely thought that, had I known, I would have terminated the pregnancy.

Most regulars here know me, and my son, yet this is the first time I have posted this. I'm not a horrible person, I'm a human, with all the faults and foibles that go with the job.

I do not judge others for their choices. It is none of my business.

[Mpnf1979]

MoonWind Dancer wrote:

<quoted text>
My love and thoughts are with you. If you need anything, message me.
Blessed Be,
MWD

Thank you so much...I'm grateful for all the support. It certainly has been a rough time, but I'll be okay eventually. My boyfriend and I broke up two days later, so it's been even harder dealing with all of that as well. Sometimes I think it's better when all the crap rains down at once so you can get over it all in one fell swoop rather than tragedy after tragedy.

[MoonWind Dancer]

Nanack Kenden wrote:

<quoted text>
"woman should not be forced to remain pregnant and give birth against her will."
Actually, if the alternative is a dead baby, then there are pros and cons to be weighed for each alternative. Should I go back to the thalidomide analogy?
"forced birthing"?
What's that, exactly?

"Forced Birthing"? Well, here is something I wrote a while ago, with some updating:

Scenario:
The Year:2025
The Place:The USA (Now "The Christian States of America")
The City:Philadelphia (Now "New Jerusalem")
The Story:
"We see thousands of 'gestators', lining up to board trains to the 'gestate compound' in Virginia. Since abortion has been declared illegal, all females that are unable to prove 100% sterility are being relocated, to allow better government access to their uteri.
Once there, all uteri will have microchips implanted , connected to CRF(Center for Reproductive Functions) monitoring systems. This will enable the CRF to monitor ovulatory status, menses, and menopause.
Anyone wishing to procreate must first apply to the RAS(Reproductive Allowance Service), and be screened medically, undergoing physical, mental, social, and psychological testing.
Once RAS criterion are met, the 'procreator will be taken to the CRF to be paired with an appropriate 'gestator'. Under strict guidelines established by the RAS, sexual intercourse will be instituted,with continuous monitoring of the uterus by the CRF.
Once conception has taken place, the 'gestator will be placed into the incubation module, where diet, exercise, stress, recreation, and medical care will be strictly monitored.'Gestators' will remained confined until delivery, after which the 'product' will go with the 'procreator', and the 'gestator will be returned for monitoring to the CRF.
'Products' of the 'gestator' type will remain with 'procreators' until menarche, when they will go to the CRF.'Procreator''products' will remain in society.
Any 'gestator' who becomes 100% sterile, as a result of surgery or menopause, will be terminated, as they have no more use in the new society.
Any violators to the RAS laws will also be terminated."

Kinda Scary, Isn't It ?

'Nuff said.

[CherryTheTart]

Doctor REALITY wrote:

Abortion is MURDER!...and Holy Almighty God SEES IT ALL!! And He will AVENGE the MURDER of His defensless babies!!

There is an abortion in the Bible performed by a priest of the Temple. Read the book you thump, Moron.

[Nanack Kenden]

" Show me where I said killing a newborn should be legal. Show me. I defy you to find ANYTHING in which I said anything even resembling that remark."

I didn't. In fact, I very explicitly said that you DIDN'T say that, but that if you were at all honest with your beliefs that that's what it'd lead to.

" There is an abortion in the Bible performed by a priest of the Temple. Read the book you thump, Moron. "

Actually, I'd like to see where that happens.

[CherryTheTart]

Nanack Kenden wrote:

" Show me where I said killing a newborn should be legal. Show me. I defy you to find ANYTHING in which I said anything even resembling that remark."
I didn't. In fact, I very explicitly said that you DIDN'T say that, but that if you were at all honest with your beliefs that that's what it'd lead to.
" There is an abortion in the Bible performed by a priest of the Temple. Read the book you thump, Moron. "
Actually, I'd like to see where that happens.

You have answered two different people in one post. But I will answer your two remarks.

1. Homo sapiens currently and historically have three responses to unwanted reproduction/pregnancy: contraception, abortion and infanticide. I prefer the first two in that order.

In fact, making abortions difficult to get results in the murder of born children. Google "Gosnell Clinic" and do all the reading. You will see the future if Roe v. Wade and abortion access are done away with.

2. Numbers 5:21 Bible Gateway refers to it as the Trial for Jealousy.

[Ocean56]

MoonWind Dancer wrote:

Wonderful post!
may I add to this, most women, especially young ones, don't think about the fact that the child could be born with handicaps.
As the Mom of a mentally handicapped son, let me tell you, life has not been a piece of cake. True, I wouldn't trade my son for anything in the world NOW, but, there have been times I sincerely thought that, had I known, I would have terminated the pregnancy.
Most regulars here know me, and my son, yet this is the first time I have posted this. I'm not a horrible person, I'm a human, with all the faults and foibles that go with the job.
I do not judge others for their choices. It is none of my business.

Agreed. A lot of girls/women never think for a second about a child's having any kind of handicap, whether it's a physical or mental one, and some are actively DIScouraged from doing so. I've actually read lines like "if you think TOO much, you'll never have kids" or words to that effect, from posters on other boards. The appropriate response to such a statement is, "and a person deciding NOT to have kids would be a bad thing...WHY, exactly?"

When a woman has one or more children because she truly wants and loves kids despite all the hardships and challenges motherhood brings, that's a good reason. When a woman has children because she is PRESSURED into doing so, even if she may have been undecided or unwilling to have them but caved to the pressure, that's NOT a good reason.

Yes, there's a 50% chance she MAY "fall in love with the child" later on, but there's also the 50% chance she may NOT, and the results in the latter case would be tragic. My feeling has always been that if a girl/woman has ANY doubts about motherhood, then DON'T do it. It's too important a decision to "roll the dice" about, and as I said, the choice NOT to be a mother is just as valid and responsible as the choice to be one.

[Nanack Kenden]

"In fact, making abortions difficult to get results in the murder of born children. Google "Gosnell Clinic" and do all the reading. You will see the future if Roe v. Wade and abortion access are done away with. "

Gosnell was an abortionist, and his clinic was an abortion clinic. What you're saying is that if Roe is done away with, horrible crimes will be committed by... pro-choicers.

I do have to respect your moxy. You actually tried to pin an abortionist's atrocities on pro-lifers.

" Numbers 5:21 Bible Gateway refers to it as the Trial for Jealousy."

Actually, in that passage, the abortifacient only works if the woman was unfaithful, and she has every opportunity to back out and admit wrongdoing, so...

[CherryTheTart]

Nanack Kenden wrote:

"In fact, making abortions difficult to get results in the murder of born children. Google "Gosnell Clinic" and do all the reading. You will see the future if Roe v. Wade and abortion access are done away with. "
Gosnell was an abortionist, and his clinic was an abortion clinic. What you're saying is that if Roe is done away with, horrible crimes will be committed by... pro-choicers.
I do have to respect your moxy. You actually tried to pin an abortionist's atrocities on pro-lifers.
" Numbers 5:21 Bible Gateway refers to it as the Trial for Jealousy."
Actually, in that passage, the abortifacient only works if the woman was unfaithful, and she has every opportunity to back out and admit wrongdoing, so...

You did not read the material on Gosnell. I knew you would not as you are intellectually dishonest. None of you fruitbats is honest or sane.

[CherryTheTart]

Nanack Kenden wrote:

"In fact, making abortions difficult to get results in the murder of born children. Google "Gosnell Clinic" and do all the reading. You will see the future if Roe v. Wade and abortion access are done away with. "
Gosnell was an abortionist, and his clinic was an abortion clinic. What you're saying is that if Roe is done away with, horrible crimes will be committed by... pro-choicers.
I do have to respect your moxy. You actually tried to pin an abortionist's atrocities on pro-lifers.
" Numbers 5:21 Bible Gateway refers to it as the Trial for Jealousy."
Actually, in that passage, the abortifacient only works if the woman was unfaithful, and she has every opportunity to back out and admit wrongdoing, so...

So let us talk about how dishonest you are. I did not say "What you're saying is that if Roe is done away with, horrible crimes will be committed by... pro-choicers." You said that. You are into pejorative blaming instead of rational information and policy.

I say that the murders committed at the Gosnell Clinic and women going to Mexico for abortions are both happening now when abortion is legal and somewhat available. If abortion is illegal, it will all be a charnel house.

[Warren J]

CherryTheTart wrote:

<quoted text>
There is an abortion in the Bible. God is kool with abortion. Don't you read the book you thump? The Bible is an abortion!

The Bible is an abortion!

[Doctor REALITY]

the Poster Child for Condom Usage wrote:

<quoted text>
There is an abortion in the Bible performed by a priest of the Temple. Read the book you thump, Moron.

Be quiet.

[CherryTheTart]

Doctor REALITY wrote:

<quoted text>Be quiet.

Highly unlikely.

[CherryTheTart]

Warren J wrote:

<quoted text>The Bible is an abortion!

Why did you type that? Why do you lie?

[Nanack Kenden]

" You did not read the material on Gosnell. I knew you would not as you are intellectually dishonest. None of you fruitbats is honest or sane. "

Did I not go to some shrill feminist blog for their interpretation of things? Is intellectual dishonesty now merely not taking your side in a debate? I knew about Gosnell well before this conversation. Perhaps you can give me your view of Gosnell instead of whining that I'm not reading your mind. The whole problem with him was that he provided illegal abortions, not that those abortions weren't legal.

"So let us talk about how dishonest you are. I did not say 'What you're saying is that if Roe is done away with, horrible crimes will be committed by... pro-choicers.' You said that. You are into pejorative blaming instead of rational information and policy."

Actually, if abortions is criminalized and illegal abortions pop up, every single one of those abortion doctors will be pro-choice. Complaints about "back-alley" abortions must tacitly admit that.

"I say that the murders committed at the Gosnell Clinic and women going to Mexico for abortions are both happening now when abortion is legal and somewhat available. If abortion is illegal, it will all be a charnel house."

Before Roe, roughly 100 women each year died from back-alley abortion. More people die each year from falling off of latters.

[CherryTheTart]

Nanack Kenden wrote:

" You did not read the material on Gosnell. I knew you would not as you are intellectually dishonest. None of you fruitbats is honest or sane. "
Did I not go to some shrill feminist blog for their interpretation of things? Is intellectual dishonesty now merely not taking your side in a debate? I knew about Gosnell well before this conversation. Perhaps you can give me your view of Gosnell instead of whining that I'm not reading your mind. The whole problem with him was that he provided illegal abortions, not that those abortions weren't legal.
"So let us talk about how dishonest you are. I did not say 'What you're saying is that if Roe is done away with, horrible crimes will be committed by... pro-choicers.' You said that. You are into pejorative blaming instead of rational information and policy."
Actually, if abortions is criminalized and illegal abortions pop up, every single one of those abortion doctors will be pro-choice. Complaints about "back-alley" abortions must tacitly admit that.
"I say that the murders committed at the Gosnell Clinic and women going to Mexico for abortions are both happening now when abortion is legal and somewhat available. If abortion is illegal, it will all be a charnel house."
Before Roe, roughly 100 women each year died from back-alley abortion. More people die each year from falling off of latters.

Go to the New York Times or the Philadelphia Inquirer. It is a very public and famous case. You are making excuses for not doing the reading or the thinking this issue involves.

You are ignorant and uninformed about this public health issue but that does not keep you from having an opinion, does it? And you know what they say about opinions ...

[Ocean56]

Nanack Kenden wrote:

I was ignoring everyone other than the guy I just replied to on the grounds that their posts somehow found a way to be sub-par for an internet chat board, but this I think merits a response.
"Thank goodness it's not for YOU to decide on the abortion issue. That has already been done, by the SCOTUS."
Just like the SCOTUS deemed slavery and Japanese internment okay?
Those were also repugnant rulings wholly endorsed by the same party and philosophy that supports Roe.

Yes, there have been some repugnant rulings by the Supreme Court in the past. I DON'T include Roe v. Wade in that group.

I simply said it wasn't for YOU -- and other anti-choicers like you -- to decide on the abortion issue. Thanks to the Roe v. Wade decision, it is for EACH woman to decide whether or not to continue a pregnancy. Some women will decide to continue a pregnancy, others will not. The ONLY person who makes the decision is the WOMAN who is pregnant, and if it isn't YOUR pregnancy, it isn't your decision.

Motherhood is still OPTIONAL, not required. That means a woman can cheerfully REJECT that option if she doesn't want the hardships and responsibilities that motherhood involves. Don't like the idea of a woman rejecting motherhood? Too bad. As I said before, it ISN'T up to you. Deal with it.

[ronone]

youtube.com/watch... …Abortion at Work?