There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

Since: Feb 08

Philadelphia, PA

#226734 Dec 9, 2012
Nanack Kenden wrote:
"The alternative is NOT a dead baby, unless YOU eat chickens for breakfast each morning."
We were already over this. What you eat in the egg does not constitute a developing chick.
"During the first trimester, the embryo or fetus is NOT viable, even with extraordinary means, and it is NOT a baby. You only use that term to attempt emotional blackmail."
"Each woman must have a right to bodily autonomy or we become nothing more than brood mares"
"Why should she be forced to risk her life to give birth?"
"Doesn't every woman deserve the right to NOT be pregnant and give birth against her will?"
Also:
https://www.google.com/search...
None of those are babies. Fine.
"And if you cannot fathom what forced birthing is, then you are extremely dense. Use some common sense."
"Please notice that I can state my argument with ad hominem arguments. I'm sorry I can't say the same about you."
Now that we've established that you can't live up to your own (admittedly low) standards, why don't we analyze what you said. You said that if abortion was criminalized it would be a "slippery slope" to "forced birthing", implying that banning abortion itself would not be "forced birthing".
That's common sense.
I'm also simultaneously highly amused and disgusted that accusing one's opponent of being pro-childbirth is now an actual critique.
WTF are you talking about?

Since: Feb 08

Philadelphia, PA

#226735 Dec 9, 2012
Nanack Kenden wrote:
<quoted text>
And it shouldn't be. See?
I love how so much of your argument is "Abortion should be legal because it already is."
"Should" in one hand and shit in the other, each handful has the same value.
Ocean56

AOL

#226736 Dec 9, 2012
Mpnf1979 wrote:
Thank you! Believe it or not, your kind words have put a smile on my face. You never know how much you need people until you REALLY need them.
You're very welcome, and I'm glad I could help, even in a small way.:-)

Ocean56

AOL

#226737 Dec 9, 2012
Nanack Kenden wrote:
And it shouldn't be. See?
I love how so much of your argument is "Abortion should be legal because it already is."
Thank goodness it's not for YOU to decide on the abortion issue. That has already been done, by the SCOTUS.

If you believe abortion is wrong, nobody is forcing you to have one. You just don't get to make sexual and reproductive decisions for anyone but yourself.

Motherhood is still an option, which a woman can cheerfully REJECT if she doesn't want the hardships and responsibilities that motherhood involves. She can reject it if she doesn't ever want pregnancy or children, or if she is DONE having kids and doesn't want any more. In any case, unless it is YOUR pregnancy, it isn't your decision.

Since: Feb 08

Philadelphia, PA

#226738 Dec 9, 2012
Nanack Kenden wrote:
<quoted text>
And it shouldn't be. See?
I love how so much of your argument is "Abortion should be legal because it already is."
Abortion is legal because women have the same number of abortions legal or illegal.

Criminalizing or making abortions inaccessible kills women and their fetuses.

Since: Feb 08

Philadelphia, PA

#226739 Dec 9, 2012
http://io9.com/5958187/what-happens-to-women-...

The researchers, led by Diana Greene Foster, followed and did intensive interviews with these women, who ran the gamut of abortion experiences. Some obtained abortions easily, for some it was a struggle to get them, and some were denied abortions because their pregnancies had lasted a few days beyond the gestational limits of their local clinics. Two weeks ago, the research group presented what they'd learned after two years of the planned five-year, longitudinal "Turnaway Study" at the recent American Public Health Association conference in San Francisco.

Here's the short version of what they discovered, from a post they made on the Global Turnaway Study Facebook page:

We have found that there are no mental health consequences of abortion compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term. There are other interesting findings: even later abortion is safer than childbirth and women who carried an unwanted pregnancy to term are three times more likely than women who receive an abortion to be below the poverty level two years later.

Since: Feb 08

Philadelphia, PA

#226740 Dec 9, 2012
Here is a link to the Turnaway Study of Women denied abortion.

http://www.arhp.org/UploadDocs/Dobkin.pdf

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#226741 Dec 9, 2012
Nanack Kenden wrote:
"The alternative is NOT a dead baby, unless YOU eat chickens for breakfast each morning."
We were already over this. What you eat in the egg does not constitute a developing chick.
"During the first trimester, the embryo or fetus is NOT viable, even with extraordinary means, and it is NOT a baby. You only use that term to attempt emotional blackmail."
"Each woman must have a right to bodily autonomy or we become nothing more than brood mares"
"Why should she be forced to risk her life to give birth?"
"Doesn't every woman deserve the right to NOT be pregnant and give birth against her will?"
Also:
https://www.google.com/search...
None of those are babies. Fine.
"And if you cannot fathom what forced birthing is, then you are extremely dense. Use some common sense."
"Please notice that I can state my argument with ad hominem arguments. I'm sorry I can't say the same about you."
Now that we've established that you can't live up to your own (admittedly low) standards, why don't we analyze what you said. You said that if abortion was criminalized it would be a "slippery slope" to "forced birthing", implying that banning abortion itself would not be "forced birthing".
That's common sense.
I'm also simultaneously highly amused and disgusted that accusing one's opponent of being pro-childbirth is now an actual critique.
And what portion of the egg DO you eat? It really doesn't matter as everything but the shell is necessary for the egg to develop into a chick.

If abortion is criminalized, what choice does a woman have when she becomes pregnant? Unless she wishes to be arrested, she is FORCED to have a child she either doesn't want or doesn't feel she can take adequate care of.

For 98% of women, adoption is not an option. Only 2% of women go through with it. It's incredibly difficult.

You don't seem to have much respect for women, as you feel that a cluster of cells smaller than the head of a pin is more important than her LIFE and her existing children.

I find that repugnant.
Nanack Kenden

Racine, WI

#226742 Dec 9, 2012
" And what portion of the egg DO you eat? It really doesn't matter as everything but the shell is necessary for the egg to develop into a chick."

Some form of carbon-based sustenance is necessary for any human being to live. That doesn't mean that we're what we eat.

"If abortion is criminalized, what choice does a woman have when she becomes pregnant? Unless she wishes to be arrested, she is FORCED to have a child she either doesn't want or doesn't feel she can take adequate care of. "

"For 98% of women, adoption is not an option. Only 2% of women go through with it. It's incredibly difficult. "

Having an abortion is completely salutary, but adoption is a horrific experience.

"You don't seem to have much respect for women, as you feel that a cluster of cells smaller than the head of a pin is more important than her LIFE and her existing children.

I find that repugnant. "

Oh dear, someone who favors the legal killing of innocent people finds my views repugnant. That's right up there with "the party of Teddy Kennedy and Bill Clinton is shocked at 'anti-woman' invective".

For the record, I think abortion should be legal is the woman's life is in danger. Just not for convenience. Under your reasoning, killing a newborn should be acceptable, but you'd realize how much of a moron you'd sound like if you said that, so you desperately try to come up with some reason to be discriminatory.
Nanack Kenden

Racine, WI

#226743 Dec 9, 2012
I was ignoring everyone other than the guy I just replied to on the grounds that their posts somehow found a way to be sub-par for an internet chat board, but this I think merits a response.

"Thank goodness it's not for YOU to decide on the abortion issue. That has already been done, by the SCOTUS."

Just like the SCOTUS deemed slavery and Japanese internment okay?

Those were also repugnant rulings wholly endorsed by the same party and philosophy that supports Roe.
Truth Check

Magalia, CA

#226744 Dec 9, 2012
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
And what portion of the egg DO you eat? It really doesn't matter as everything but the shell is necessary for the egg to develop into a chick.
If abortion is criminalized, what choice does a woman have when she becomes pregnant? Unless she wishes to be arrested, she is FORCED to have a child she either doesn't want or doesn't feel she can take adequate care of.
For 98% of women, adoption is not an option. Only 2% of women go through with it. It's incredibly difficult.
You don't seem to have much respect for women, as you feel that a cluster of cells smaller than the head of a pin is more important than her LIFE and her existing children.
I find that repugnant.
It seems that when this same woman was once a cluster of cells, you had no respect for her.
I find that repugnant.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#226745 Dec 9, 2012
Nanack Kenden wrote:
" And what portion of the egg DO you eat? It really doesn't matter as everything but the shell is necessary for the egg to develop into a chick."
Some form of carbon-based sustenance is necessary for any human being to live. That doesn't mean that we're what we eat.
"If abortion is criminalized, what choice does a woman have when she becomes pregnant? Unless she wishes to be arrested, she is FORCED to have a child she either doesn't want or doesn't feel she can take adequate care of. "
"For 98% of women, adoption is not an option. Only 2% of women go through with it. It's incredibly difficult. "
Having an abortion is completely salutary, but adoption is a horrific experience.
"You don't seem to have much respect for women, as you feel that a cluster of cells smaller than the head of a pin is more important than her LIFE and her existing children.
I find that repugnant. "
Oh dear, someone who favors the legal killing of innocent people finds my views repugnant. That's right up there with "the party of Teddy Kennedy and Bill Clinton is shocked at 'anti-woman' invective".
For the record, I think abortion should be legal is the woman's life is in danger. Just not for convenience. Under your reasoning, killing a newborn should be acceptable, but you'd realize how much of a moron you'd sound like if you said that, so you desperately try to come up with some reason to be discriminatory.
Show me where I said killing a newborn should be legal. Show me. I defy you to find ANYTHING in which I said anything even resembling that remark.

You are reading a great deal into my posts which is understandable. Otherwise you have nothing to argue about.

Define "convenience." Is it convenience for a 14 year old who hasn't even graduated 8th grade to have an abortion? Is it "convenient" for a woman in an abusive relationship to have an abortion? Is it convenient for a woman on welfare who has just completed school so she is able to get off welfare?

I'm done.

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#226746 Dec 9, 2012
Truth Check wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems that when this same woman was once a cluster of cells, you had no respect for her.
I find that repugnant.
Obviously I had no respect for myself when I was a cluster of cells either.

What about it?

I care about BORN children. I find it repugnant to have a child who is not wanted nor loved to be born to a woman who didn't want it.

Since: Feb 08

Philadelphia, PA

#226747 Dec 9, 2012
Nanack Kenden wrote:
I was ignoring everyone other than the guy I just replied to on the grounds that their posts somehow found a way to be sub-par for an internet chat board, but this I think merits a response.
"Thank goodness it's not for YOU to decide on the abortion issue. That has already been done, by the SCOTUS."
Just like the SCOTUS deemed slavery and Japanese internment okay?
Those were also repugnant rulings wholly endorsed by the same party and philosophy that supports Roe.
And the above has exactly what to do with the fact that I am pregnant and I want an abortion?

Since: Feb 08

Philadelphia, PA

#226748 Dec 9, 2012
mamma-san wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me where I said killing a newborn should be legal. Show me. I defy you to find ANYTHING in which I said anything even resembling that remark.
You are reading a great deal into my posts which is understandable. Otherwise you have nothing to argue about.
Define "convenience." Is it convenience for a 14 year old who hasn't even graduated 8th grade to have an abortion? Is it "convenient" for a woman in an abusive relationship to have an abortion? Is it convenient for a woman on welfare who has just completed school so she is able to get off welfare?
I'm done.
It is a verbose sanctimonious dumbass. But it wants to be IN CHARGE.

Since: Feb 08

Philadelphia, PA

#226749 Dec 9, 2012
Truth Check wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems that when this same woman was once a cluster of cells, you had no respect for her.
I find that repugnant.
I think you have us confused with folks who care what you think. Not your pregnancy? Not your business.
Doctor REALITY

Little Rock, AR

#226750 Dec 9, 2012
Abortion is MURDER!...and Holy Almighty God SEES IT ALL!! And He will AVENGE the MURDER of His defensless babies!!

“Becoming a better me!”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#226751 Dec 9, 2012
Doctor REALITY wrote:
Abortion is MURDER!...and Holy Almighty God SEES IT ALL!! And He will AVENGE the MURDER of His defensless babies!!
And the Flying Spaghetti Monster has a special vat of boiling water for people like you. Watch out! Or HE will BOIL you with a huge package of spaghetti and smother you in Ragu.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#226752 Dec 9, 2012
Man of Science wrote:
<quoted text>That's terrible! I'm so sorry...I didn't know her as well as many of the people her; but if you're in touch with her cousin, could you please tell them that Will (me, obviously) sends them his condolences and is so sorry for their loss? Thank you.
I did. Just haven't had time to respond to your post. Thank you.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#226753 Dec 9, 2012
Mpnf1979 wrote:
Unfortunately, my happiness was short-lived. After my consideration, I decided to terminate my pregnancy. There were many factors, one being that my boyfriend of 7 years decided to move to Kuwait (he left today) for a job that would take him out of the picture for the next year. I moved to where I live now because he moved here to be closer to his daughter. I have no support system, no family (they're hours away) and I'd basically be going through an entire pregnancy and delivery by myself, not to mention caring the a baby by myself. Furthermore, we already had a rocky relationship, but I found out some information about him that made me realize that having a child with him would be the worst possible decision I could ever make. So today I made the right decision for me and ended my pregnancy. It's unfortunate, but I can't say that I was anything but confident that this was the absolute best decision. I just thought I would tell some of you since I had already told you all and I'm sure I'd be getting questions about how everything was going. I don't expect most people to understand, but as we've all discussed on here so many times, no one can make that decision but ourselves.
My love and thoughts are with you. If you need anything, message me.
Blessed Be,
MWD

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