“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#607883 Nov 17, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not going to split hairs because I said...
"Personally, it would have made more sense to me and been more consistent with past approaches had you simply said you have studied this in depth and feel she is incorrect."
..."feel and not "know". It really is not relevant to what I am asking. If you think "know" should have been used that's fine
But I will ask again, when do you feel people should defer to others and based on what? Does someone being gay or straight or white or black or whatever automatically make them an expert in everything to do with it over someone who isn't?
And if not, what would be the standard you would apply when people outside a group should defer to someone inside a group?
I am not sure why we are having trouble connecting on this. I look forward to your answer.
.. there's a vast difference between the words think, believe, feel and know ..

.. in my original post, I revealed my knowledge was based on articles and scholarly works underscored by personal research and experience ..

.. Truth's ingrained belief ignores substantial counter-evidence and is impervious to argument. People, including you, must identify the pink elephant pooping on the living room rug and point out that the emperor has no clothes ..

.. Truth may be a kind and good-willed person but to justify her personal belief she relies on biographies which may be false instead of reason, research, science or scholarly findings and disregards anything that disagrees with her chosen opinion ..

.. her position is bankrupt of reason, damages society and portrays homosexuals as child molesters. Her supposition seems to be that, because she believes something, everybody must grant its validity, including me ..

.. does a belief become fact because someone believes it? Is everybody suppose to acknowledge as correct an opinion when the bulk of evidence discredits that opinion on every front ??..

.. Truth thinks her opinion on homosexuality is truth and that no one, including River and myself, should call it wrong. In reality, it's a standard condemnation of homosexuality that, by insinuation, inaccurately portrays gays as child molesters ..

.. am I mistaken, unfair or unkind to say outright that such thinking is irrational? However you view it, any claim to unquestionable truth based on the use of selective data is silly. It knows nothing of coherent reasoning or evidenced argument and it wants to know nothing of it ..

.. how could one argue with such a position? The impossibility of any discussion based on counter evidence evinces the irrationality of her position ..

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#607884 Nov 17, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
In Rabbinical Judaism it is said that "he God of Moses is NOT the God of Abraham NOR the God of Jacob."
That is to say that each generation has a different understanding of God while God remains unchanged.
Thus, from my POV, "the Jesus" of the disciples is not "the Jesus" of Paul and IMHO far from "the Christ(s)" of Modern Christianity.
To clarify; although the same man,'the father' of my childhood isn't 'the father' of my teens and a far cry from 'the father' of my later years. My father didn't change at all. My perceptions of him did.
God , on Mt. Sinai , to Moses:

"And he said,“I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.”"(Exodus 3:6)

:)

But I understand the thrust of ones "view" being a matter of perception. Often it is not seeing the forest for the trees. For a Christian the Bible is an "aerial view" of God's plan for man. And as with Jesus even some groups of believers accentuate certain parts of it over others. Also thrown in the mix, and I think you can appreciate this, is the "Westernisation" of scripture - not reading it with audience relevance in mind , but trying to "shoehorn" our 'modern era' into it -particularly when it comes to eschatology. A bone of contention I have.

But in summation, "For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."(Malachi 3:6)

Mans musings are the variable ;)

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#607885 Nov 17, 2013

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607891 Nov 17, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
There is only one church.
LOL

I have a dozen churches in my town. We also have a Buddhist Temple.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607892 Nov 17, 2013
Senecus wrote:
<quoted text>
God , on Mt. Sinai , to Moses:
"And he said,“I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.”"(Exodus 3:6)
:)
But I understand the thrust of ones "view" being a matter of perception. Often it is not seeing the forest for the trees. For a Christian the Bible is an "aerial view" of God's plan for man. And as with Jesus even some groups of believers accentuate certain parts of it over others. Also thrown in the mix, and I think you can appreciate this, is the "Westernisation" of scripture - not reading it with audience relevance in mind , but trying to "shoehorn" our 'modern era' into it -particularly when it comes to eschatology. A bone of contention I have.
But in summation, "For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."(Malachi 3:6)
Mans musings are the variable ;)
There is a saying, "The Scriptures may be inspired by God but man has got his dirty fingerprints all over them."

In my opinion, the Gospels were a marketing tool of the church wrapped around a few truths about Jesus.

Myself, I try to discern by comparing them all as to what they all agree on. Much like a Juror is supposed to do in a trial. I weight the evidence, discount the discrepancies and focus on the commonalities. I don't reject any evidence out of hand.

I Guess that is why I don't understand the rejection of all the extra-canonical texts by Christendom as frauds. IMHO they answer the atheists question of "What do you have outside the Bible for the Jesus fellow even existing? ". I can point to over 200 texts from before 200AD to answer that. That is more than we have about all the Roman Emperors.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607893 Nov 17, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. there's a vast difference between the words think, believe, feel and know ..
.. in my original post, I revealed my knowledge was based on articles and scholarly works underscored by personal research and experience ..
.. Truth's ingrained belief ignores substantial counter-evidence and is impervious to argument. People, including you, must identify the pink elephant pooping on the living room rug and point out that the emperor has no clothes ..
.. Truth may be a kind and good-willed person but to justify her personal belief she relies on biographies which may be false instead of reason, research, science or scholarly findings and disregards anything that disagrees with her chosen opinion ..
.. her position is bankrupt of reason, damages society and portrays homosexuals as child molesters. Her supposition seems to be that, because she believes something, everybody must grant its validity, including me ..
.. does a belief become fact because someone believes it? Is everybody suppose to acknowledge as correct an opinion when the bulk of evidence discredits that opinion on every front ??..
.. Truth thinks her opinion on homosexuality is truth and that no one, including River and myself, should call it wrong. In reality, it's a standard condemnation of homosexuality that, by insinuation, inaccurately portrays gays as child molesters ..
.. am I mistaken, unfair or unkind to say outright that such thinking is irrational? However you view it, any claim to unquestionable truth based on the use of selective data is silly. It knows nothing of coherent reasoning or evidenced argument and it wants to know nothing of it ..
.. how could one argue with such a position? The impossibility of any discussion based on counter evidence evinces the irrationality of her position ..
I think you are splitting hairs. I am not going to post you know for a fact Deb is wrong when I don't know what information you are going by. And I specifically made the point your position was based on the study you did

Skom said:

"Personally, it would have made more sense to me and been more consistent with past approaches had you simply said you have studied this in depth and feel she is incorrect."

You do feel she is incorrect. That's a fact. If i had said "think" then MAYBE there could be some confusion as whether "think" was being written as 'unsure' or to 'indicate someone's position. With feel, there is no confusion as to whether the person is unsure. It clearly represents you position. And I ALREADY said if you feel somehow I should have posted the you know for a fact she is wrong, whatever, that is fine. It wasn't even remotely relevent to what Iasked and neither is your response today. I don't care if you find her reasoning irrational. You said she should defer to you because you are gay. The same way those who aren't Christians should defer to those who are as it is offensive if they don't. Yet nobody has followed this including you.

So I will ask a 4th time.When do you feel people should defer to others and based on what? Does someone being gay or straight or white or black or whatever automatically make them an expert in everything to do with it over someone who isn't?

And if not, what would be the standard you would apply when people outside a group should defer to someone inside a group?

Please address when and why someone should defer to another in a group when you reply

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607894 Nov 17, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
It has nothing to do with you personally, Skom.
I like you :)
Christianity has made a stand against homosexuals.
You're either with them, against them or sitting in the back room hoping it will all go away.
It's not going away.
Well, I will just say two things. Sort of unrelated but not really

The first, without violating her privacy with details, Deb has gone through multiple traumas where any one of them would have destroyed 99% of most people. She sees sin as a result of someone being in pain. Any sin. And since she had to overcome so much to still live a good life, she looks to help others she feels is hurting and struggling to get on their chosen path. I am not blind as to the several assumptions made that someone who is homosexual would take great offense too. But I promise it is not malicious intent. It is not like she thinks less of you. Heck, she thinks every time I go at it with someone it is a result of me still having wounds that are unhealed. Sometimes things just are what they are. But I promise she would give you the shirt off her back if you needed it. Whereas some people just hate those who are gay

As for the stand, I really don't see it. Republicans blasted their own party for getting too involved in other people's bedrooms as the reason they lost the Presidential election. 75% of the nation in Christian yet gay-marriage keeps getting passed in state after state. Many Christians today feel it isn't their business and secular rights can't be denied. Being gay is a protected class legally. Many, many people now come "out" easily. I just saw an article titled "ten celebrities that are gay that we didn't know came out" or something very similar. But basically it showed me it isn't even news now.

You have said yourself you go to a Christian church and they know you guys are gay and they treat you well.Sure there is still prejudice. You would know better than I. But for my generation and down it is mostly a non-issue. As Dylan song "Times they are a changing"

(T) Peace

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607895 Nov 17, 2013
@Skom

Years ago I met one of the leaders in alcoholism research. I asked him why there were so many different theories about alcoholism. His answer was simple and honest, "Because we don't know a damned thing about it."

The same applies to many things including homosexuality.

Th difference IMHO between science and theology is that the scientist says "Lets find out." where the the theologian says "We know.".

"Never the twain shall meet." - R. Kipling

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607896 Nov 17, 2013
Why a separation between Secular and Theocratic laws ?

Secular laws are for the community as a whole while theological laws are for a group or individual.

If you don't believe in adultery, divorce, homosexuality and abortion then don't do those things.

Pretty simple IMHO

"He can't even run his own life. I'll be damned if he'll run mine."

"Get your own house in order first."

"Remove the beam from your own eye."

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

IMHO most people need to target others so they don't have to look at their own failings. I think that damns them. How can one repent what what one is unwilling to recognize ?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#607897 Nov 17, 2013
River Tam wrote:
Riverside Redneck is a Christian. He said that Jesus was just a man. Is He a God or a Man?
Both.

Jesus is God in human form, or at least He was.
Here For Now

Lenoir City, TN

#607898 Nov 17, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think I believe anything without evidence?
I don't, BTW. On my way to California, I stopped in Reno. I made $3600 by playing the odds. I understand math.
<quoted text>
I've met people who have claimed to have met Him.
They didn't like my questions any more than you do.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I wouldn't bet on it. It's against the odds. It's not statistically significant.
<quoted text>
But they didn't write the Gospels. So, what makes you think they met the man named Jesus. What makes you think the man Jesus even existed? What makes you think that Matthew, John and Peter ever existed? Do you believe anything in the book of Revelations?
<quoted text>
Riverside Redneck is a Christian. He said that Jesus was just a man. Is He a God or a Man?
Well what makes you think that…? Why why and why back to you. You said,“They didn't like my questions any more than you do.” You don’t like what the Bible says and Christians believe any more than other non-believers. You could be asked why, what, how do you know RT. I have answered questions and you will not accept them any more than you will any other of my answers. You don’t have the answers any more than you think I do.

You and I will not see this the same. Why continue? I hope you have a good day RT,
HFN
Here For Now

Lenoir City, TN

#607899 Nov 17, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
See youse......
Soon I hope.:)

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#607900 Nov 17, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are splitting hairs. I am not going to post you know for a fact Deb is wrong when I don't know what information you are going by. And I specifically made the point your position was based on the study you did
Skom said:
"Personally, it would have made more sense to me and been more consistent with past approaches had you simply said you have studied this in depth and feel she is incorrect."
You do feel she is incorrect. That's a fact. If i had said "think" then MAYBE there could be some confusion as whether "think" was being written as 'unsure' or to 'indicate someone's position. With feel, there is no confusion as to whether the person is unsure. It clearly represents you position. And I ALREADY said if you feel somehow I should have posted the you know for a fact she is wrong, whatever, that is fine. It wasn't even remotely relevent to what Iasked and neither is your response today. I don't care if you find her reasoning irrational. You said she should defer to you because you are gay. The same way those who aren't Christians should defer to those who are as it is offensive if they don't. Yet nobody has followed this including you.
So I will ask a 4th time.When do you feel people should defer to others and based on what? Does someone being gay or straight or white or black or whatever automatically make them an expert in everything to do with it over someone who isn't?
And if not, what would be the standard you would apply when people outside a group should defer to someone inside a group?
Please address when and why someone should defer to another in a group when you reply
.. your question has already been answered ..

.. on legal questions, I would defer to an attorney, on medical questions a physician and on the study of humans an anthropologist ..

.. if you can find one fully accredited sexologist or anthropologist who agrees that pedophilia is a major cause of homosexuality, I will defer to him or her ..

.. Truth's discordant, polemic rhetoric fans the flames of hostility, violence and discrimination towards homosexuals and does little to encourage understanding ..

.. as usual, you have the closing argument. I'm done with this topic ..

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#607904 Nov 17, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. your question has already been answered ..
.. on legal questions, I would defer to an attorney, on medical questions a physician and on the study of humans an anthropologist ..
.. if you can find one fully accredited sexologist or anthropologist who agrees that pedophilia is a major cause of homosexuality, I will defer to him or her ..
.. Truth's discordant, polemic rhetoric fans the flames of hostility, violence and discrimination towards homosexuals and does little to encourage understanding ..
.. as usual, you have the closing argument. I'm done with this topic ..
Completed my (Birmingham) assignment.

Incorporated your material, many thanks.

Driving south now.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607905 Nov 17, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. your question has already been answered ..
.. on legal questions, I would defer to an attorney, on medical questions a physician and on the study of humans an anthropologist ..
.. if you can find one fully accredited sexologist or anthropologist who agrees that pedophilia is a major cause of homosexuality, I will defer to him or her ..
.. Truth's discordant, polemic rhetoric fans the flames of hostility, violence and discrimination towards homosexuals and does little to encourage understanding ..
.. as usual, you have the closing argument. I'm done with this topic ..
This is the first time you answered. And you STILL didn't answer what I asked and you know it. I am not asking about someone considered an expert in the field or someone who has to pass a certain amount of tests or certification. I asked about simply being a member of a group. Those are two very different things

Does being gay make someone automatically an expert in all things gay? Does being straight automatically make someone an expert in all things straight. Does being white automatically make someone an expert in all things white?

This is why it is impossible to hold an adult conversation with you. If you think there is even a hint that a point you made is being questioned or is being asked for clarification, even if it should be, you will avoid the subject or claim you don't understand or claim you answered. Your pride won't let you have an honest discussion

You could have simply said, no simply being a member of a group doesn't make them an expert. Someone should defer based on knowledge. But your pride won't let you because you implied someone should defer just because you are gay and they are not. And if you answered my question on point, you would have to admit people who are not Christians, including yourself, often don't defer in similar situations.

I tried talking to you like an adult. I was hoping you would see either a need then for people on your side to respect the same boundaries you want us too. Or to agree people don't need to defer simply because someone is a member of a group. Those are the two logical conclusions. But I realize my expectations of you are too high

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607906 Nov 17, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
@Skom
Years ago I met one of the leaders in alcoholism research. I asked him why there were so many different theories about alcoholism. His answer was simple and honest, "Because we don't know a damned thing about it."
The same applies to many things including homosexuality.
Th difference IMHO between science and theology is that the scientist says "Lets find out." where the the theologian says "We know.".
"Never the twain shall meet." - R. Kipling
I would agree here are still things science doesn't know about both

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#607907 Nov 17, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Good, cause my leg work isn't as good as it used to be.
Hector !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =_ygRholyh5gXX
Heel, Hector, heel!

https://www.youtube.com/watch...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#607908 Nov 17, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Both.
Jesus is God in human form, or at least He was.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607909 Nov 17, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>I would agree here are still things science doesn't know about both
And still things religion doesn't as well.

I think that is what I dislike about religion. I know when and how the various doctrines and interpretations were created. There is no reason to assume that a Pope or Priest has any more divine inspiration than I do. In fact, I would say they had much less. I also have a lot more knowledge about the history and texts of early Christianity and Judaism than any of them did altogether.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607910 Nov 17, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =mII6-IyaT3oXX
That is why Nicaea was so important. "This is what we now say the Trinity is. Don't ever question it."

A meaningless remedy for a meaningless premise.

Occam's razor cuts to the chase: Jesus was not God and never said He was.

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