Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607852 Nov 16, 2013
Senecus wrote:
<quoted text>
At the risk of seeming "simplistic" , each paragraph could be answered with "Jesus".....
Which Jesus ?

Seems there as many "Jesii" as there are Christians.

While many IMHO see themselves as being like Jesus, I rather see how most of us are NOT like Him.

It is the difference between seeing Jesus as a role-model or a peer.

While I do not hold many of the Christian beliefs about Jesus, I will confess Him to be virtually peerless.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#607853 Nov 16, 2013
Here For Now wrote:
<quoted text>
RT men wrote the other books too. I find people believing there is no God because men told them that, letting men decide what you should believe, because that’s what they want you to believe. In your way of thinking if one can be considered weak then so can the other one be considered weak.
Yes some who penned the Bible met Jesus.
Yes, they were all penned by men that you don't know and never will. Why do you believe some men that you've never met and not other men that you've never met?

Which authors of the Bible met the man named Jesus?

Do you believe that Jesus was just a man?

“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

The South Pole

#607854 Nov 16, 2013
Epiphany2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Part of the "Fighting Irishman" huh?...My x husband was Irish and both my boys are too.
Were your parents from Ireland? Did you read "Angela's Ashes"? The authors last name is McCord..Tough life growing up in Ireland and here in the US in NY
I'm part Irish, to be sure, to be sure. However that one gives us Paddys a bad name.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607855 Nov 16, 2013
Senecus wrote:
<quoted text>
At the risk of seeming "simplistic" , each paragraph could be answered with "Jesus". Really, what better example could one have? He showed us what a father should be :
"Jesus said to him,“Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father."(John 14:9)
He nurtured,He provided, He loved , He gave...
I , like you, was raised Catholic(though I don't follow it's traditions or extra-biblical doctrines). But so was my father and his siblings. Yet I came away with a deeper understanding than they did(parochial school helped, not all of them attended). I believe the environment played a roll in that, in their day (pre-Vatican II) Bible reading was best left to those "in authority" , the mass was still in Latin, so understanding was stifled; and emphasis was more towards traditions and fulfilling ones "holy obligations". So, a 'bifurcated life' of Monday - Saturday was "yours" and Sunday was "God's". The ol' "Angel on Sunday but devil on Monday". Kinda like how some Christians view posting on Topix , go to the gutter - it "doesn't count" - only 'real life' does. But , I digress...
Now , in our day restrictions aren't as great (post-Vatican II) so, one(like myself) benefited from that initial openness to 'explore' faith (actually read a Bible) and begin a study of 'spiritual things'.
I will also add ,and believe, God will place others in your path- places where your life will have a 'turning point' or 'decision change'. I refer to them as "Mile markers of Life", reference points of a highlight, and the people involved. I've had several, as most will, and it's what one does with them that determines its effectiveness.
Nothing wrong with being simplistic if that's the answer

If you credit faith for breaking the cycle then nothing else I asked would apply

What age (20s, 30s, 40s, is fine) were you when you realized you would not be part of the cycle? I know people say from the time it was happening to them they knew they would do it different. And I have friends that it took swell, well into adulthood before they even started to break free of some of the learned behavior and warped notions jammed into their head by a guy that had no business being a father. To this day some of them still ask how high when he says jump. But at least they don't repeat the process with their kids. But I wouldn't dream of asking them when they realized their dad was not someone to pattern things off of. Partly because he still manipulates them to this day and it could affect our friendship. One that has seen a total of two fights in 39 years and the last one was when we were 10. So I leave it alone

But because I can't ask him, I jumped at the chance to ask you when you put it out there

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607856 Nov 16, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Very interesting concept, but there may be problems in the execution.
Yeah, you would have to be willing to sell your car. Just put in the class that will buy your attachment to it. I wouldn't let mine go for under $20K although no one sane would buy it for that.

“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

The South Pole

#607857 Nov 16, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't believe this is even a discussion. Ignorance saddens me. What of me? I was abused as a child and am not a homosexual. I also know other homosexuals who were not abused as children. I won't even point out the hypocrisy *coughscatholicchurchchildmole stors*.
Great post River.
Now THAT is a good point, Luci.
:-(

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607858 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
.... when do you feel people should defer to others and based on what? Does someone being gay or straight or white or black or whatever automatically make them an expert in everything to do with it over someone who isn't?
And if not, what would be the standard you would apply when people outside a group should defer to someone inside a group?
I am not sure why we are having trouble connecting on this. I look forward to your answer.
Just a thought for you. Even the sciences haven;t figured that one out completely. The various sciences and academics are always arguing. In my fields there is much animosity between archaeologists and historians. It is much like "The documents are mist important" vs "The artifacts are more important".
It was not until recently that a "school of thought" emerged in Europe combining the two fields.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607859 Nov 16, 2013
Here For Now wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Skombolis, I hope you rested well last night.
I did.
Thanks

:)

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#607860 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
I think you may be reading more into some of this than I intended but let me go point by point
<quoted text>
I am saying 'group' simply as classification or demographic. People who are gay are considered a group. As are people who are straight. Or white. Or male. or female. And my point was being part of a classification does not automatically make someone an expert in everything to do with it.
For example, I guarantee a black PHD historian is going to know more about white history in America than I will. Just because i am white doesn't make me an expert in all things 'white'
<quoted text>
I am not sure what you disagreed with. I said it would mean in that case whoever knew the correct facts knew more about that particular aspect. In this case it would be history of when same-sex marriage became legal or denominations in the U.S.
<quoted text>
I agree facts are different than beliefs. That has never been in dispute. And again, group simply as in classification.
<quoted text>
I did not say either one was subjective in and of themselves. I said people's opinions the impact each has had on society would be subjective
What I'm reading into this is what I'm reading on this thread, Skom.

When I read people type that homosexuality is caused by pedophiles, it pisses me off.

I'm a homosexual that understands Christianity. I want Christians to understand homosexuals. I don't understand why that is so hard to do. We are the same people. We're not demon possessed. We don't need exorcism. We need understanding. We need common ground. We exist and we're not going away no matter how hard you pray.

That's a fact.

:-)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607861 Nov 16, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Just a thought for you. Even the sciences haven;t figured that one out completely. The various sciences and academics are always arguing. In my fields there is much animosity between archaeologists and historians. It is much like "The documents are mist important" vs "The artifacts are more important".
It was not until recently that a "school of thought" emerged in Europe combining the two fields.
I doubt there will ever be some universal standard that everyone would agree again.

Although I thought I put out a reasonable one that I have set for myself that I go by on when to defer and why

I just want to know the one HL has set for herself and goes by for when to defer and why

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#607862 Nov 16, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
A part of me has a difficult time accepting that you're 20 years old.
It's the wisdom.
Would you like to cut me down and count my rings?

Hey Scar !!!!

“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

The South Pole

#607863 Nov 16, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
We need to ban Milk!
Almost every alcoholic drank milk as a child.
Milk causes alcoholism!
LOL

Is that because it settles your stomach after boozing?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607864 Nov 16, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
What I'm reading into this is what I'm reading on this thread, Skom.
When I read people type that homosexuality is caused by pedophiles, it pisses me off.
I'm a homosexual that understands Christianity. I want Christians to understand homosexuals. I don't understand why that is so hard to do. We are the same people. We're not demon possessed. We don't need exorcism. We need understanding. We need common ground. We exist and we're not going away no matter how hard you pray.
That's a fact.
:-)
I would assume you are using the word "you" in the pejorative sense as I don't pray for that

And I obviously understand why this is something you take personally

Just don't see enemies where there none friend. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean I have the same views as every other Christian and therefore must only be entering the conversation to promote the same viewpoint

I would think at this stage in the game my overall stance has been made pretty clear. And I'm not going to make this about me and get worked up at not getting the benefit of the doubt as its a topic that hits home with you. But if you find yourself questioning something I wrote then just ask me. I will always be happy to clarify how I meant it

(T) Peace

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#607865 Nov 16, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Which Jesus ?
The one of the Bible :)
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems there as many "Jesii" as there are Christians.
On the surface it may appear that way,but often groups(or denominations) seem to accentuate particular attributes. Those in the "Emergent" church lean toward hands on 'social' aspects - the "nurturer"- helping the poor,homeless, ect. Some Pentecostals are hyper grace & love; Anabaptist want there life to a "Witness Tract", and so on. Yet, Jesus is the sum of these parts, and more :)
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
While many IMHO see themselves as being like Jesus, I rather see how most of us are NOT like Him.
It is the difference between seeing Jesus as a role-model or a peer.
While I do not hold many of the Christian beliefs about Jesus, I will confess Him to be virtually peerless.
Jesus is the 'Light', and will expose those areas of ones life that do not conform to His image.

As for peer, for a Christian He's peerless, the Alpha and Omega - God.

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#607866 Nov 16, 2013
Gettin' tired.. should be "Anabaptist want THEIR lives to BE a...."

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#607867 Nov 16, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>Now THAT is a good point, Luci.
:-(
Thanks Rosa.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#607868 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I would assume you are using the word "you" in the pejorative sense as I don't pray for that
And I obviously understand why this is something you take personally
Just don't see enemies where there none friend. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean I have the same views as every other Christian and therefore must only be entering the conversation to promote the same viewpoint
I would think at this stage in the game my overall stance has been made pretty clear. And I'm not going to make this about me and get worked up at not getting the benefit of the doubt as its a topic that hits home with you. But if you find yourself questioning something I wrote then just ask me. I will always be happy to clarify how I meant it
(T) Peace
It has nothing to do with you personally, Skom.

I like you :)

Christianity has made a stand against homosexuals.

You're either with them, against them or sitting in the back room hoping it will all go away.

It's not going away.

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#607869 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Nothing wrong with being simplistic if that's the answer
If you credit faith for breaking the cycle then nothing else I asked would apply
What age (20s, 30s, 40s, is fine) were you when you realized you would not be part of the cycle? I know people say from the time it was happening to them they knew they would do it different. And I have friends that it took swell, well into adulthood before they even started to break free of some of the learned behavior and warped notions jammed into their head by a guy that had no business being a father. To this day some of them still ask how high when he says jump. But at least they don't repeat the process with their kids. But I wouldn't dream of asking them when they realized their dad was not someone to pattern things off of. Partly because he still manipulates them to this day and it could affect our friendship. One that has seen a total of two fights in 39 years and the last one was when we were 10. So I leave it alone
But because I can't ask him, I jumped at the chance to ask you when you put it out there
As far as a complete break, early 20's, but it was gradual, and knew as a boy experiencing drunken revelry (and brawls) around me I wanted nothing to do with it and felt there had to be a better way of 'family life'. Faith was a major role ,as well as a few of those "Mile markers".
Here For Now

Lenoir City, TN

#607870 Nov 16, 2013
Senecus wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi HFN !
Someones been flushing the toilets so it doesn't smell like a cesspool much anymore so, I'll pop in :)
Oh is that it? LOL. It is nicer in here lately. Seems like the, I guess you could call them, sides are getting along better.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607871 Nov 16, 2013
Senecus wrote:
<quoted text>
The one of the Bible :)
<quoted text>
On the surface it may appear that way,but often groups(or denominations) seem to accentuate particular attributes. Those in the "Emergent" church lean toward hands on 'social' aspects - the "nurturer"- helping the poor,homeless, ect. Some Pentecostals are hyper grace & love; Anabaptist want there life to a "Witness Tract", and so on. Yet, Jesus is the sum of these parts, and more :)
<quoted text>
Jesus is the 'Light', and will expose those areas of ones life that do not conform to His image.
As for peer, for a Christian He's peerless, the Alpha and Omega - God.
In Rabbinical Judaism it is said that "he God of Moses is NOT the God of Abraham NOR the God of Jacob."
That is to say that each generation has a different understanding of God while God remains unchanged.

Thus, from my POV, "the Jesus" of the disciples is not "the Jesus" of Paul and IMHO far from "the Christ(s)" of Modern Christianity.

To clarify; although the same man,'the father' of my childhood isn't 'the father' of my teens and a far cry from 'the father' of my later years. My father didn't change at all. My perceptions of him did.

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