Why Should Jesus Love Me?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607828 Nov 16, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post! Thanks!
:)

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607829 Nov 16, 2013
Senecus wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll return the favour, you'll get to drive :)
Thanks! I look forward to it.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607830 Nov 16, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I agree with you. I get annoyed at those who don't understand historical methodologies but claim to be 'experts' both on Topix and off as well as theists and atheists.
I am not an expert on "your faith", what you believe is a personal or church matter. I do claim to be quite informed on the history of Christianity and the Bible. The two topics are quite independent.
I have discovered that my knowledge has not lead me away from "belief" but has strengthened it.
Hope that makes sense to you.
I agree, there is a definitely a big difference between speaking to things personal to an individual and knowledge in general

And i feel the same way about belief. The more I have learned has only helped to strength my belief. Because they are my beliefs based on my understanding and knowledge and not just something someone told me.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607831 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Wile it may not be the case in some situations, my own experience from what I have gone thru, seen, and simply feel is that people most often can break from a cycle when new people enter their lives and their learning process is so impacted by the person that otherwise might be the reason they repeated the cycle themselves
For instance, if you dad and uncles were the only authority figures in your life or people you would receive instruction and guidance from, I would think it much less likely your personal morals would develop independently to the point that you would outright reject such a learned pattern of behavior. Normally someone needs someone else in their life to reinforce that they are nut crazy or mistaken for thinking such behavior is wrong. They need someone else that is setting an example they want to follow to see there is a much better way. And someone else bring love and confidence to someone who has been subjected to things helps that person to be their own man
And some people may not need anybody else. Maybe it is as simple as they knew they didn't like it and their own natural sense of morals tells them the basic common sense understanding that if you didn't like it, why would you then do it to someone you loved knowing they wouldn't like it
If you don't mind me prying as I am interested from a sociological aspect as well as personal just from knowing you, what helped you break the cycle? Were their other people in your life that helped you in your opinion to reject these lessons taught from childhood? Or did you do it on your own?
I think we can do it on our own. But I also think its possible to just think we did because if not for having people instill basic morality, we might never think to question it. Even if someone didn't like it, they might think it is just part of life and how things are to be done. Anyway, just curious if you had to really narrow it down, what helped you break the pattern?
RA's post wasn't civil. If he left off the last two sentences calling me a liar it would have been. But then RA wouldn't have posted it at all. LOL

I was ready to thank him for an informational post until I got to the knife at the end of his post.

I am beginning to think I am his only reason for coming here. Now THAT is sad.
Here For Now

Lenoir City, TN

#607832 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Night
HFN:)
Hey Skombolis, I hope you rested well last night.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#607833 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I agree there is quite a difference between belief and fact
All I was saying is that even with a belief system, there are facts about group. And someone being part of a group doesn't necessarily mean they are automatically an expert on those facts or automatically more knowledgeable than someone outside the group in every aspect.
I'm not part of a group. When I say that I am a homosexual that means that I am.*Note the word I in those sentences*

There are no belief systems in my statements. I am a homosexual. It's a fact that has been demonstrated over and over and over again.
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
If someone is a Christian and didn't know Catholic was largest denomination in the United States yet an atheist knew that, then in the one case the atheist would know more about Christianity in regards to that than someone in the faith. Just because someone is in the faith doesn't mean they automatically know everything there is to know. And sometimes there is no disputing who knew a particular fact.
I thought we were talking about the difference between belief and facts. I can be a female homosexual without ever having sex with another female. I'll still be a homosexual. Can you be a Christian without ever believing in the Christ?
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
If someone is gay and didn't know that it was a Surpreme court ruling in 2003 that led to Massachusetts being the first state to recognize same-sex marriage yet someone who isn't gay knew that, in that one case the person who was straight knew more about the history concerning homosexuality in America than someone who is gay
No. That just means they knew more about the history of that court case.
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
So my point was basically that regardless what group someone is in, there are two categories (and one more i will bring up in a minute)
There are no groups. There are facts and there are beliefs.
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
1) Facts - which don't change and whoever knows them would have just as much right to state them, regardless of their group
2) Individual truths - someone in a group is going to know more about some things than someone who is not. I would defer to someone who is gay on the subject of what is it like to be gay in Western society. I could learn this or that but bottom line is, someone who is gay is going to be able to speak to that way more than someone who isn't. Just like a believer is going to be able to speak way more to why they believe than an atheist claiming to know why people believe.
Facts are facts. Beliefs are beliefs.

That's the crux of the discussion.

I need no group to know that I can prove homosexuality exists. I am the example.

Do you need a group to prove that the Christ exists? Can you prove it? That is what it means to be a Christian, right? You follow the Christ, right?

I'm just sayin
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
And then I would think everything else pretty much falls into a final category. Anything that isn't based on fact or personal experience, is subjective and people will all have their own opinions. For example, what affect does homosexuality have on society? Or what affect does Christianity have on Society? Those things are subjective. And I think people have a right to their opinion on things that are subjective and don't have to defer. But they do have to defer if they are going to essentially speak for someone else and they have to defer to the person they are speaking for
Homosexuality is not subjective. It exists. It's based on demonstrable facts.

Christianity is not subjective. It exists. It's based on stories that nobody can corroborate. It's a belief.
Here For Now

Lenoir City, TN

#607834 Nov 16, 2013
Senecus wrote:
See the 'party's' ending so I'll head for and exist meself....
...but shall return ;)
Good 'seeing' some old familiar 'faces' here tonight, a Good Night to All :)
Hey my friend. It’s good to see you dropping in here more often Senecus.
:)
HFN

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#607835 Nov 16, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
At one car show I got first place and an XKE got Best in Show. I would have given both trophies to the Jag. Way out of my league.
If I could have any car in the world though, it would be a '73 Ferrari 308-GTB.'Teen dreams' I guess.
There are so many apples, and so many oranges.

A Duesenberg model J, for instance, is in a class of itself.

It's like trying to compare Rembrandt and Picasso and Warhol.
Here For Now

Lenoir City, TN

#607836 Nov 16, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm talking about the other gospels and texts from the time that were left out of the Bible because the priests and popes and scribes found them somewhat, how should we say, heretic? You let men decide what you should believe because that's what they wanted you to believe. I find that arrogant on their part and weak on the part of those who accept it.
But that's just me.
Do you believe that any authors of the New Testament ever met the man they call Jesus?
RT men wrote the other books too. I find people believing there is no God because men told them that, letting men decide what you should believe, because that’s what they want you to believe. In your way of thinking if one can be considered weak then so can the other one be considered weak.

Yes some who penned the Bible met Jesus.

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#607837 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>As usual
1) You have no idea what you are talking about
2) You posted to me unsolicited looking to to fight
3) You interrupted a civil exchange to do so
So when you start crying next time and looking for sympathy, please keep it in mind
You never answered yesterday's question. Why was it so important to you to stop peace that you would to pressure and guilt a friend in the way you did to try to prevent it? I have seen you use that tactic on other friends so obviously you don't mind trying to use a friendship against someone to do what you want and not what they want to do. But you broke your word when it didn't work. So did you know all along you were never actually going to leave and were just trying to get your way?
I'll get back to you later.
Here For Now

Lenoir City, TN

#607838 Nov 16, 2013
Truths wrote:
Had some computer lag...and switched back to the laptop to put my feet up-ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.Good night (c:
((((((HFN))))))))))Skom))))))) )))
((((((John))))))))
Hey Truths.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#607839 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I was not questioning your knowledge
And of course anybody has the right to correct something they believe is wrong
But you seemed to be saying Deb should not even have an opinion on it and defer to you because you are gay, just like she would be offended if you spoke to things about Christianity she found offensive.
Yet those outside the faith, including you, almost never defer to those the faith simply because they are of the faith
Personally, it would have made more sense to me and been more consistent with past approaches had you simply said you have studied this in depth and feel she is incorrect. Because the reason you are really saying she should defer isn't so much just that you are gay so naturally you must know more about it but rather you know more about it because you have studied it.
I can tell you up-front this is not some side-angle trying to start a fight.
I simply was curious when I saw you used the example you did and said she should defer to you. Clearly nobody has been deferring to anybody so why now I guess was what I was curious about and based on what decides when someone should defer?
Because while curious why now people should suddenly respect some boundaries for deferring was really almost secondary. I think it can be equally as dangerous to what you mentioned when people assume simply being part of a group makes them an expert and automatically means they know more than anyone else outside the group.
So understanding more about when you think people should defer and why was going to help me address that
.. Truth's 'opinion' damages society and promotes the idea that pedophilia is a major contributing factor in sexual orientation ..

.. this type of propaganda causes animosity towards homosexuals and perpetuates the myth that gays are dangerous child molesters ..

.. I do not 'feel' she is incorrect; I KNOW she is incorrect and made that clear in my post ..

.. after interviewing 100+ homosexuals, I wrote a paper on the possible causes/reasons for homosexuality which excluded pedophilia as a major contributing factor ..

.. my conclusion? Sexuality is hard-wired and it's impossible to change the gender (or in some instances genders) we are physically attracted to ..

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#607840 Nov 16, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you assert ownership of this topic?
You have credentials?
.. in UT, any car 25+ years old is considered an antique and entitled to FREE antique plates ..

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607841 Nov 16, 2013
I think you may be reading more into some of this than I intended but let me go point by point
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not part of a group. When I say that I am a homosexual that means that I am.*Note the word I in those sentences*
There are no belief systems in my statements. I am a homosexual. It's a fact that has been demonstrated over and over and over again.
I am saying 'group' simply as classification or demographic. People who are gay are considered a group. As are people who are straight. Or white. Or male. or female. And my point was being part of a classification does not automatically make someone an expert in everything to do with it.

For example, I guarantee a black PHD historian is going to know more about white history in America than I will. Just because i am white doesn't make me an expert in all things 'white'
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
No. That just means they knew more about the history of that court case.
I am not sure what you disagreed with. I said it would mean in that case whoever knew the correct facts knew more about that particular aspect. In this case it would be history of when same-sex marriage became legal or denominations in the U.S.
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Facts are facts. Beliefs are beliefs.
That's the crux of the discussion.
I need no group to know that I can prove homosexuality exists. I am the example.
Do you need a group to prove that the Christ exists? Can you prove it? That is what it means to be a Christian, right? You follow the Christ, right?
I'm just sayin
I agree facts are different than beliefs. That has never been in dispute. And again, group simply as in classification.
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Homosexuality is not subjective. It exists. It's based on demonstrable facts.
Christianity is not subjective. It exists. It's based on stories that nobody can corroborate. It's a belief.
I did not say either one was subjective in and of themselves. I said people's opinions the impact each has had on society would be subjective

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#607842 Nov 16, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not part of a group. When I say that I am a homosexual that means that I am.*Note the word I in those sentences*
There are no belief systems in my statements. I am a homosexual. It's a fact that has been demonstrated over and over and over again.
<quoted text>
I thought we were talking about the difference between belief and facts. I can be a female homosexual without ever having sex with another female. I'll still be a homosexual. Can you be a Christian without ever believing in the Christ?
<quoted text>
No. That just means they knew more about the history of that court case.
<quoted text>
There are no groups. There are facts and there are beliefs.
<quoted text>
Facts are facts. Beliefs are beliefs.
That's the crux of the discussion.
I need no group to know that I can prove homosexuality exists. I am the example.
Do you need a group to prove that the Christ exists? Can you prove it? That is what it means to be a Christian, right? You follow the Christ, right?
I'm just sayin
<quoted text>
Homosexuality is not subjective. It exists. It's based on demonstrable facts.
Christianity is not subjective. It exists. It's based on stories that nobody can corroborate. It's a belief.
A part of me has a difficult time accepting that you're 20 years old.

It's the wisdom.

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#607843 Nov 16, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. in UT, any car 25+ years old is considered an antique and entitled to FREE antique plates ..
Thanks for that very helpful information.

Now bring the scarves.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#607844 Nov 16, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. Truth's 'opinion' damages society and promotes the idea that pedophilia is a major contributing factor in sexual orientation ..
.. this type of propaganda causes animosity towards homosexuals and perpetuates the myth that gays are dangerous child molesters ..
.. I do not 'feel' she is incorrect; I KNOW she is incorrect and made that clear in my post ..
.. after interviewing 100+ homosexuals, I wrote a paper on the possible causes/reasons for homosexuality which excluded pedophilia as a major contributing factor ..
.. my conclusion? Sexuality is hard-wired and it's impossible to change the gender (or in some instances genders) we are physically attracted to ..
I am not going to split hairs because I said...

"Personally, it would have made more sense to me and been more consistent with past approaches had you simply said you have studied this in depth and feel she is incorrect."

..."feel and not "know". It really is not relevant to what I am asking. If you think "know" should have been used that's fine

But I will ask again, when do you feel people should defer to others and based on what? Does someone being gay or straight or white or black or whatever automatically make them an expert in everything to do with it over someone who isn't?

And if not, what would be the standard you would apply when people outside a group should defer to someone inside a group?

I am not sure why we are having trouble connecting on this. I look forward to your answer.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607845 Nov 16, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not part of a group. When I say that I am a homosexual that means that I am.*Note the word I in those sentences*
There are no belief systems in my statements. I am a homosexual. It's a fact that has been demonstrated over and over and over again.
<quoted text>
I thought we were talking about the difference between belief and facts. I can be a female homosexual without ever having sex with another female. I'll still be a homosexual. Can you be a Christian without ever believing in the Christ?
<quoted text>
No. That just means they knew more about the history of that court case.
<quoted text>
There are no groups. There are facts and there are beliefs.
<quoted text>
Facts are facts. Beliefs are beliefs.
That's the crux of the discussion.
I need no group to know that I can prove homosexuality exists. I am the example.
Do you need a group to prove that the Christ exists? Can you prove it? That is what it means to be a Christian, right? You follow the Christ, right?
I'm just sayin
<quoted text>
Homosexuality is not subjective. It exists. It's based on demonstrable facts.
Christianity is not subjective. It exists. It's based on stories that nobody can corroborate. It's a belief.
I think you are both saying much the same thing.

There are Christians. Fact.
There are Homosexuals. Fact.

The study of each of those has no more to do with "being" one of them than Jane Goodall had to be a Gorilla.

Two completely different things.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#607846 Nov 16, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
There are so many apples, and so many oranges.
A Duesenberg model J, for instance, is in a class of itself.
It's like trying to compare Rembrandt and Picasso and Warhol.
I am trying to get interest in a club sponsoring a show where the classes aren't by type or age but by cash value. To prevent cheating, winners must be willing to sell their cars that day for the cash class they are in. Got the idea from a racing event I saw on the Velocity Channel.

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#607847 Nov 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Wile it may not be the case in some situations, my own experience from what I have gone thru, seen, and simply feel is that people most often can break from a cycle when new people enter their lives and their learning process is so impacted by the person that otherwise might be the reason they repeated the cycle themselves
For instance, if you dad and uncles were the only authority figures in your life or people you would receive instruction and guidance from, I would think it much less likely your personal morals would develop independently to the point that you would outright reject such a learned pattern of behavior. Normally someone needs someone else in their life to reinforce that they are nut crazy or mistaken for thinking such behavior is wrong. They need someone else that is setting an example they want to follow to see there is a much better way. And someone else bring love and confidence to someone who has been subjected to things helps that person to be their own man
And some people may not need anybody else. Maybe it is as simple as they knew they didn't like it and their own natural sense of morals tells them the basic common sense understanding that if you didn't like it, why would you then do it to someone you loved knowing they wouldn't like it
If you don't mind me prying as I am interested from a sociological aspect as well as personal just from knowing you, what helped you break the cycle? Were their other people in your life that helped you in your opinion to reject these lessons taught from childhood? Or did you do it on your own?
I think we can do it on our own. But I also think its possible to just think we did because if not for having people instill basic morality, we might never think to question it. Even if someone didn't like it, they might think it is just part of life and how things are to be done. Anyway, just curious if you had to really narrow it down, what helped you break the pattern?
At the risk of seeming "simplistic" , each paragraph could be answered with "Jesus". Really, what better example could one have? He showed us what a father should be :

"Jesus said to him,“Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father."(John 14:9)

He nurtured,He provided, He loved , He gave...

I , like you, was raised Catholic(though I don't follow it's traditions or extra-biblical doctrines). But so was my father and his siblings. Yet I came away with a deeper understanding than they did(parochial school helped, not all of them attended). I believe the environment played a roll in that, in their day (pre-Vatican II) Bible reading was best left to those "in authority" , the mass was still in Latin, so understanding was stifled; and emphasis was more towards traditions and fulfilling ones "holy obligations". So, a 'bifurcated life' of Monday - Saturday was "yours" and Sunday was "God's". The ol' "Angel on Sunday but devil on Monday". Kinda like how some Christians view posting on Topix , go to the gutter - it "doesn't count" - only 'real life' does. But , I digress...

Now , in our day restrictions aren't as great (post-Vatican II) so, one(like myself) benefited from that initial openness to 'explore' faith (actually read a Bible) and begin a study of 'spiritual things'.

I will also add ,and believe, God will place others in your path- places where your life will have a 'turning point' or 'decision change'. I refer to them as "Mile markers of Life", reference points of a highlight, and the people involved. I've had several, as most will, and it's what one does with them that determines its effectiveness.

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