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#588201
Sep 11, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Ah. Early indoctrination and a conditioned reflex.
Much is now made clearer.
<quoted text>
Ignorance is often held onto tenaciously, since to you, it isn't seen as ignorance but a valid form of personal knowledge, and eliminating that ignorance would mean you have to admit that you were indeed ignorant.
Eliminating ignorance in yourself is not a bad thing, and doing that is one of the best things you can do for yourself and more importantly, benefits the world.
Like you said, I don't consider it ignorance. So far, I've talked about those three kids that beat up the other kids, all the blacks in prisons and jails, and the filthy blacks in HUD housing and free housing, etc.

None of that is ignorance, that's just knowledge. As bongo put it, it's calling a spade a spade.

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#588202
Sep 11, 2013
 

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You shall reap what you sow and sow what you shall reap. Often is a double edged sword.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#588203
Sep 11, 2013
 

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AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
..
Straight person 1 says they are not homophobic...Straight person 1 gets angry at Straight person 2...person 1 calls person 2 a faggot...accuses them of being gay...using "gay" as an insult.
Is person 1 non-homophobic as they claim?...
As soon as someone proves they are anti "X", the deepest cut I can give them is to accuse them of being "X".

For example:
The worst insult you can give a Nazi is to call them a Jew.
The greatest damage to a Nazi is proving they have Jewish blood.

I am sure RR would hate to know that chances are 100% that he has African and Hispanic ancestry. He actually hates himself.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

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#588204
Sep 11, 2013
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Since you claim this isn't your country it really isn't any of your fkg business who does or does not contributes what. The same goes for all the other loser posters who are not citizens of this country.
So...you think Topix should be segregated? Hmmm

Since: Jul 12

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#588205
Sep 11, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
You're just making up BS. Anyone could do what you're doing, write that kind of trash. It's pretty easy, it's been done throughout history to the poor.
Are you serious with this?!

Do you really need some kind of study to "prove" to you that people that receive free housing, free food etc. should be grateful for that?!?

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

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#588206
Sep 11, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Like you said, I don't consider it ignorance. So far, I've talked about those three kids that beat up the other kids, all the blacks in prisons and jails, and the filthy blacks in HUD housing and free housing, etc.
None of that is ignorance, that's just knowledge. As bongo put it, it's calling a spade a spade.
What about the "white" people that live in HUD housing...are they filthy?

Are you calling them filthy because they do not shower...or simply because they are not your skin color.

I have asked you a couple of times before...

You said...even kids can make the right choice despite their circumstances...their experiences...their environment...yet...you can't.

Why do you expect something from them...that you don't expect from yourself?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#588207
Sep 11, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Well now...
You despise all Christians for the acts of some...
And they call me a bigot...
Ha ha ha
You are lying again.

I don't despise ALL Christians. Just the scumbags.

Since: Jul 12

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#588208
Sep 11, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly, you are correct, I am wasting my time.
Not sure that I see this situation as a winnable/unwinnable one, but an instructive one. RR's teaching us all how insidious structural violence works - he has admitted that he's an unwilling tool of racism. He doesn't want to be a racist, but he has no choice, no power to change himself.
So we know the limits of this man. This is enculturation. It's powerful. That he is conflicted over his own thoughts and behavior and powerless to change them provides a wonderfully strong example of how limited people are by their growth and development. We cannot trust people's subjective realities. So the tools of science, the reflexivity and critical analyzing of the self in the social sciences are so necessary for us to understand humanity.
These tools lead us to reject religion. Just as RR's racism is the direct product of his early environment, so are his religious experiences. "God" certainly spoke to RR in RR's reality, but it is no more objectively real than RR's racist image of black Americans. Just as we can do away with his racism as a product of his early environment, so to can we do away with his religious experiences thusly.
I have no doubt both are meaningful to him, and neither are descriptive of objective reality.
Hidingfromyou wrote:
That he is conflicted over his own thoughts and behavior and powerless to change them
You're wrong about that. I've changed a great deal over the years. If you've known me for the pat 20 years, you'd know that.

But you haven't so you assume.
Hidingfromyou wrote:
RR's racist image of black Americans
How would you know my thoughts on that? I've never broad-brushed all black people, I've only talked about certain particular groups of black people.

Again, you assume.

Come down from that Ivory Tower of yours and join the rest of us in the real world.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#588209
Sep 11, 2013
 
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
So...you think Topix should be segregated? Hmmm
"First put all the non-believers in Ghettos while we build the concentration and work camps."

Sound familiar ?

Since: Mar 09

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#588210
Sep 11, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
This is one of your failings: the inability to own your own mess.
You have been abusive for months (yet another personal failure) for no better reason than you object to my antiecclesiastical position, the expression of which is the principle raison d'etre for Topix.
I have the right and in fact the moral duty to express such opinions if I hold them and consider them important. You are only entitled to rebut them - show where they are in error - if you can.
Instead, you have embarked on a months long campaign of abusive posting amounting to nothing but personal attacks. I have tried to work with you three ways. First, I returned the abuse, hoping that you would come to understand in the process why that was inappropriate. Remarkably, you hunkered down and continued in your campaign.
When that failed, I extended my opened hand to you, and even offered to help you when you expressed a passing interest in being better. You spat on that that.
Then I put a three month moratorium on my own use of language like liar and Dimwit. All I got from you was more of the ususal - a non-stop litany of comments about unethical professional practices, hiding in third world slums, and the like. But you still wouldn't relent.
And now here we are.
You are beyond self-blind

There is no point any longer in even trying to address the absurdity of your claim that you made an overture of peace any more than your denial you were the start of hostilities. I responded to you in the beginning at least half a dozen times, questioning why you would reply with insults and condescension when I had been nothing but respectful.

You have a very selective memory and even change actual eventas until your mind has it where you are in the right. Just like you denied you r interaction with Q was anything but you veing a perfect gentlemen. After i all, you merely inquired as to the question he may have wanted to ask and certainly didn't make four different, long-winded and insulting and condescending remarks to him.

But at that point, whatever happened between us is neither here nor there when it comes to what I am talking about.

I am talking about your non-stop trolling.About the fact that even with the nicest Christians on this site, day in and day out they have to endure your constant abuse and whining and criticizing of their faith. And despite the fact that you didn't even care when you came on Topix and you do this for your own ego. Day after day after day for over a year now, you are in here post after post just looking to be a pain in the ass. You say you don't write for Christians, so are you seriously claiming the same audience you have had since you got here of non-Christians is who you repeat yourself daily for?

Who are you kidding? You do it for yourself

Carrion

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#588211
Sep 11, 2013
 

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Skombolis wrote:
I felt fortunate that my parents always instilled in me a strong sense of equality for all people.
Except Mexicans.

Tell us more about a nation of people that to you is nothing but impoverished slums, people that you can't describe without the use of the word "burro."

You don't get to steal credit for yourself by pretending to be enlightened after the racist comments you have made in this thread about people that you're not fit to live among. You get to hang with the other assorted bigots on this thread, all Christians I might add. You get to hang with the atheophobes, racists, misogynists, and homophobes.

Where's Adam been? Church?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#588212
Sep 11, 2013
 

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AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the "white" people that live in HUD housing...are they filthy?
Are you calling them filthy because they do not shower...or simply because they are not your skin color.
I have asked you a couple of times before...
You said...even kids can make the right choice despite their circumstances...their experiences...their environment...yet...you can't.
Why do you expect something from them...that you don't expect from yourself?
The majority of people on public assistance in the USA are rural 'white' protestant women.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#588213
Sep 11, 2013
 

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Skombolis wrote:
Part 2 of 2 @HFY
I guess my point is that for better or for worse, many of us have morals and values that largely reflect our parents. I don't think we have to look much farther than that most the time. Society is simply a reflection of the family microcosm. Each family unit providing its own socialization. This isn't to say society can't impact things but it is a collection of people who have entered the world largely as who their parents raised them to be
People can overcome their roots. Life experience goes a long way towards that end. Yet I am a liberal against abortion and the death penalty, a Christian, progressive on domestic affairs and conservative on foreign. I am for equal rights. So are both my parents. In a perfect world we would keep all the good teachings and reject the bad. It just isn't that common.
I don't know what the answer is. Parents are just people and will never be perfect. And from what I have seen, it takes decades after adulthood for people to start to re-write parts of their moral code and it is a slow and arduous process with varying degrees of success. Again, I don't know what the answer is. But I believe RR when he says he is trying. I also believe he has a lot to overcome in areas of race. But I think the fact that he is trying and is honest about how he feels has to be a good start.
Yes we can hold people's values up to the light and scrutinize them. Sometimes that is a good thing. But how much do we want to beat someone up that is trying? Is the victory from a sense of moral superiority worth making someone dig their heels in and reject the change the started to embrace?
I am not saying by any means to give someone a free pass. But I am suggesting perhaps some of aggression and judgement should be tempered with patience when someone is making an effort to change. Normally when something is right, it will prove itself on merit. It is an easy argument to present. Sometimes it will at least plant a seed. I do know I have never seen someone pushed into changing how they think. But I have occasionally seen some people react positively to expecting better from them and giving them some things to consider so that they may make the change themselves
Incidentally, this is your typical content-free posting. Where's the scholarship? Where are the nontrivial insights? This is nothing but insipid platitudes. You have that in common with nanoanomaly, who also likes to pretend that she has something to say, but instead gives us simplistic, self-evident pap.
Skombolis wrote:
IDK, just some thoughts I had anyway.
Is that what you thought those were?

Since: Mar 09

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#588214
Sep 11, 2013
 

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AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
As disturbing as I find the "in your face" racist/bigot...I am possibly more disturbed something else...those that don't realize they are being a racist or bigot. I am not sure that I know exactly what to call it.
Scenario...
Straight person 1 says they are not homophobic...Straight person 1 gets angry at Straight person 2...person 1 calls person 2 a faggot...accuses them of being gay...using "gay" as an insult.
Is person 1 non-homophobic as they claim?
Why would someone who claims to have no problems with someone being gay then turn around and use "gay" as a tool to degrade person 2?
Same thing with racism...claim to not be racist...yet doesn't hesitate to use ethnic slurs or tell ethnic jokes.
Just my opinion...
I think you answer your own question in here personally. I would say no they are not homophobic. Let me post the scenario again

Annie said:

"Straight person 1 says they are not homophobic...Straight person 1 gets angry at Straight person 2...person 1 calls person 2 a faggot...accuses them of being gay...using "gay" as an insult.
Is person 1 non-homophobic as they claim?"

1) They are angry

2) They know logically is makes no sense to call a straight person gay as an insult as it doesn't apply. It isn't a reflection of their attitude towards someone gay but is done for 1 of 3 reasons

A) Growing up being called fagot was meant as insult. And it didn't even necessarily have to do with being gay. It meant a man was weak, a wuss, etc. Granted being more socially correct says, well look why it would mean that and it derived from this and this is why it shouldn't be said and etc. And thats probably right. But point is to the person saying it being gay may be the furthest thing from their mind. When angry people tend to go to default mode. Perhaps bad habits they had broken from the past come out

2) It is being said as fag in terms of gay. However they know the person is not gay. It is the same as calling someone white a "N-word". Logically it makes no sense. But when angry people look to hurt. And they generally don't spend a lot of time planning out what words they may use. It is again, probably just an old habit they broke once becoming more sensitive to how it may effect others that surfaced simply because on some level they know it doesn't apply. Now if someone got mad and called someone gay a fagot someone black an N-word, that is different. But again, not always that much. The main intent again may simply be to get to the quick. To inflict injury. It mat have nothing to do with their actual beliefs

C) They know the person they are saying it to will take it as an insult. You know what I do when people say I sleep with other guys as an insult? I laugh. To me its simply an attempt that won't work to bother me. I in return have used it as an insult. Generally with people older than me or around the same age as people aren't always so forthcoming. Lots of people claim they aren't homophobic. Then you may see them posting as an insult about guys taking it up the rear like a woman. Or who knows, maybe that is just an extreme version of what I have been talking about?

The point is, you may not necessarily learn anything from something said out of anger. And sometimes it is a reflection of people's true feelings. There is no clear cut way to know. But usually when between two straight guys, it rarely reflects their actual attitude towards someone gay

That's my opinion anyway

Since: Mar 09

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#588215
Sep 11, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Except Mexicans.
Tell us more about a nation of people that to you is nothing but impoverished slums, people that you can't describe without the use of the word "burro."
You don't get to steal credit for yourself by pretending to be enlightened after the racist comments you have made in this thread about people that you're not fit to live among. You get to hang with the other assorted bigots on this thread, all Christians I might add. You get to hang with the atheophobes, racists, misogynists, and homophobes.
Where's Adam been? Church?
I have never said anything negative towards Mexican people or about anybody for being Mexican

I make fun of you for the economic condition you find yourself in, living in a third world country

My comments do not focus on the people nor even how they came to their particular plight. I wouldn't even know that on any type of large scale. They simply focus on how you came to be there

You will never be able to produce a post where I say anything bad about Mexican people. Again I laugh at an American being thrust into the culture and the economic conditions such a 'success' as yourself finds himself in after telling of priests who misappropriate funds and laughs at the idea they wouldn't because "after all, it's a church". I laugh at a guy who brags about the money he saved by leaving the church and how he retired early instead of being left to the undesirable fate of the doctors who stayed Christian. Um..You are in Mexico buddy. How is your fate something you are rubbing in anybody's face

You want it to be about other people so it won't be just about you. But it is just about you. And none of my posts say otherwise

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#588216
Sep 11, 2013
 

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Skombolis wrote:
our family and a family we were went went to a Detroit Pistons (Pro basketball) game
Detroit. LOL.

< wink >
Skombolis wrote:
I look at so many mistakes I have made despite being blessed with a starting point many don't get. I was an upper-middle class white male living in an affluent neighborhood with private schooling through grade-school and one of the best public high-schools in the state. I had good parents, a great older brother, great friends. I was taught properly and I believe was instilled with a good sense of right and wrong. Yet despite all of that, things still went off the tracks completely and more than a few times.
And yet you want to give advice to others, including moral advice.
Skombolis wrote:
I do believe in rare cases people are born with just a tendency to evil that wasn't taught. But so many times I think it is just luck of the draw and what situation we were born into
Are you one of those rare cases? You just enumerated the advantages you were born into, and what you did with them: a criminal record, drug addiction, unskilled laborer, and a life of solitude.

Oh, and Jesus. You found that, too. Congratulations.

Let me know when you're ready to repent. I'll accept your mea culpa if it is sincere and contrite, and if the calumnious posting stops.

Are you are too proud to do that?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#588217
Sep 11, 2013
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
Since you claim this isn't your country it really isn't any of your fkg business who does or does not contributes what. The same goes for all the other loser posters who are not citizens of this country.
LOL. There's my princess. Add jingoist to the list of types of god-fearing bigots here.

Since: Mar 09

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#588218
Sep 11, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Detroit. LOL.
< wink >
<quoted text>
And yet you want to give advice to others, including moral advice.
<quoted text>
Are you one of those rare cases? You just enumerated the advantages you were born into, and what you did with them: a criminal record, drug addiction, unskilled laborer, and a life of solitude.
Oh, and Jesus. You found that, too. Congratulations.
Let me know when you're ready to repent. I'll accept your mea culpa if it is sincere and contrite, and if the calumnious posting stops.
Are you are too proud to do that?
LOL

You don't understand what suburbs are!

Do they have suburbs where you live?

In America, a suburb is an outlying district of a city, esp. a residential one.

(see Google def)

Quite a few suburbs of Detroit are some of the wealthiest cities in America

Don't you find it strange that only after leaving have you discovered some of the most basic things about American cities and American economics?

Meh, it explains a lot I guess:)

As for the rest, I won't allow a good and productive exchange to be dragged down because you are feeling desperate and inadequate. There are too few good exchanges on Topix as it is

Perhaps another post?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#588219
Sep 11, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
Hiding: 12
Nano: 4
You keep losing, oh revolting thing.
LOL.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

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#588220
Sep 11, 2013
 

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Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you answer your own question in here personally. I would say no they are not homophobic. Let me post the scenario again
Annie said:
"Straight person 1 says they are not homophobic...Straight person 1 gets angry at Straight person 2...person 1 calls person 2 a faggot...accuses them of being gay...using "gay" as an insult.
Is person 1 non-homophobic as they claim?"
1) They are angry
2) They know logically is makes no sense to call a straight person gay as an insult as it doesn't apply. It isn't a reflection of their attitude towards someone gay but is done for 1 of 3 reasons
A) Growing up being called fagot was meant as insult. And it didn't even necessarily have to do with being gay. It meant a man was weak, a wuss, etc. Granted being more socially correct says, well look why it would mean that and it derived from this and this is why it shouldn't be said and etc. And thats probably right. But point is to the person saying it being gay may be the furthest thing from their mind. When angry people tend to go to default mode. Perhaps bad habits they had broken from the past come out
2) It is being said as fag in terms of gay. However they know the person is not gay. It is the same as calling someone white a "N-word". Logically it makes no sense. But when angry people look to hurt. And they generally don't spend a lot of time planning out what words they may use. It is again, probably just an old habit they broke once becoming more sensitive to how it may effect others that surfaced simply because on some level they know it doesn't apply. Now if someone got mad and called someone gay a fagot someone black an N-word, that is different. But again, not always that much. The main intent again may simply be to get to the quick. To inflict injury. It mat have nothing to do with their actual beliefs
C) They know the person they are saying it to will take it as an insult. You know what I do when people say I sleep with other guys as an insult? I laugh. To me its simply an attempt that won't work to bother me. I in return have used it as an insult. Generally with people older than me or around the same age as people aren't always so forthcoming. Lots of people claim they aren't homophobic. Then you may see them posting as an insult about guys taking it up the rear like a woman. Or who knows, maybe that is just an extreme version of what I have been talking about?
The point is, you may not necessarily learn anything from something said out of anger. And sometimes it is a reflection of people's true feelings. There is no clear cut way to know. But usually when between two straight guys, it rarely reflects their actual attitude towards someone gay
That's my opinion anyway
Then...since RR has admitted to being racist...if I get angry at him and call him the "N" word...I can excuse it because I wanted to insult him?

My opinion...I would need to take a long hard look at myself...

I understand that people can be overly sensitive at times...especially if they are used to hearing certain phrases used as a means to degrade. I think that people notice these phrases more often if they have touched their lives in some way negatively.

A few days ago I made the statement that I don't like chainsaws because I would probably cut my leg off. Both River and Tide said something about it...I apologized even though River never entered my mind...in all honesty...I did not understand why they would find that offensive. If I had of phrased it...I don't use chainsaws because I don't want to end up a one-legged something or another...then I would have understood. However I will be more careful in the future.

My point is...I think...it is still early here in Seattle...that when we use one group of people to insult another group...who have we marginalized...who have we really hurt.

Oh well...I think I will finish my coffee...maybe my thoughts will make more sense...even to me!

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