“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#582628 Aug 31, 2013
scaritual wrote:
One of my favorite movies is Fifth Element.
Me too.
scaritual wrote:
I saw Red Cliff 1&2 the other day and am resisting watching them again just so the first time can sink in a little. I thought those were good, too. Hadn't seen either before.
Thanks. I have to get those now.

I generally try to watch all the big movies out of China, but sometimes I miss them.

“The who whating how...”

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#582629 Aug 31, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>One of my favorite movies is Fifth Element.

I saw Red Cliff 1&2 the other day and am resisting watching them again just so the first time can sink in a little. I thought those were good, too. Hadn't seen either before.
That movie is awesome!

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#582630 Aug 31, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
It is as plain as a clear, sunshiny day. They even admit to it.
Just so there is no confusion here. What do you think is being implied and how?
Qu_innocence wrote:
The probability that order in the universe and the laws of nature came out of chaos is virtually nil... with that in mind, creation itself is proof that there is a divine being.
What is that probability based upon? Where do the numbers come from, and how is the probability arrived at?
Qu_innocence wrote:
Do you believe in the possibility of the existence of aliens?
Based upon the fact that life has evolved on this planet? Yes.
Qu_innocence wrote:
If either group explicitly believes in their position, then it is faith. Interesting the Spectrum of theistic probability that R. Dawkins conjured up.
As in this example?

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#582631 Aug 31, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism = I don't believe in your God or any other gods.
It's not a puzzle, Qu.
It is what it is.
You can't get around that.
From what I'm reading... it's not that simple. I mean, I'm sure from you are telling me that it is that simple to you, River. But other atheist's seem to be splitting hairs on the matter and I was ignorant of that. I'm just looking into the matter, myself.

Dawkin's Spectrum of Theistic Probability

"1.Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."

2.De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."

3.Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."

4.Com pletely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."

5.Leaning towards Agnosticism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."

6.De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

7.Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."

Dawkins argues that while there appear to be plenty of individuals that would place themselves as "1" due to the strictness of religious doctrine against doubt, most atheists do not consider themselves "7" because atheism arises from a lack of evidence and evidence can always change a thinking person's mind. In print, Dawkins self-identified as a '6', though when interviewed by Bill Maher[3] and later by Anthony Kenny,[4] he suggested '6.9' to be more accurate."

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#582632 Aug 31, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>...and then it all boils down to what I've read from your link and the earlier link, thus far... that a person can have a different view of Atheism and it is not always clear cut as some Atheists may imply.
Then again, some agnostics don't consider themselves as Atheists...
Anyways, the point is what I explained earlier... I wasn't aware of that, thought it was interesting and now realize that atheists aren't always in general consensus with their beliefs in gods' non-existence.
It's very clear. It isn't a belief a deity or deities do not exist, as if I do think they might exist, and am deciding I'll >believe< they don't.

I think much of the problem theist have in grasping the atheist position is that you certainly do believe a deity exists, and so anything that isn't framed in a "belief" concerning your deity, you have difficulty reconciling the difference.
I don't mean that as a slight at all.

I'll say it again.

Atheism is the lack or absence of the faith supported theistic belief that deities exist.

Atheists don't have a theistic belief there are deities.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#582633 Aug 31, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism = I don't believe in your God or any other gods.
It's not a puzzle, Qu.
It is what it is.
You can't get around that.
It's difficult for the theist to separate belief from non belief.

They take non belief to mean an active belief there are not deities.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#582634 Aug 31, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Me too.
<quoted text>
Thanks. I have to get those now.
I generally try to watch all the big movies out of China, but sometimes I miss them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =_JsmRHAop2oXX
I don't like these movies. Ip Man was a great Master but Wing Chun was designed for women. It was to keep men from beating us up. It's about balance and defense. It's a way of life. It's not a movie. That being said:

That was a fuckincool clip.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#582635 Aug 31, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Me too.
<quoted text>
Thanks. I have to get those now.
I generally try to watch all the big movies out of China, but sometimes I miss them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =_JsmRHAop2oXX
My pleasure. I think you'll like it. That one you linked looks pretty interesting too.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#582636 Aug 31, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
<quoted text>
That movie is awesome!
Yeah. It was completely unlike what I was thinking it was going to be.

It has everything a movie should have.

About half way through the first one I thought "Wow, this is a really good movie"

The way it was filmed, scenery, all of it was good.

Liked it.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#582637 Sep 1, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Woah... hold on thar! I glossed over this. Say we change the points made in your link from Santa to "Christ". So we have Christ is coming to town rather than Santa is coming to town.
Points 1 & 3 would still be "beliefs" just as you said. Whether it was Santa or Christ. Point 1 would be the Christian's explicit position and Point 3 would be the Athiest's explicit position. Do you concur that whether you put Christ or Santa there it is still a belief?
If so, then wouldn't you agree then that both positions require "a leap of faith" as stated earlier?
No,#3 is not the atheist position.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#582638 Sep 1, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>From what I'm reading... it's not that simple. I mean, I'm sure from you are telling me that it is that simple to you, River. But other atheist's seem to be splitting hairs on the matter and I was ignorant of that. I'm just looking into the matter, myself.
Dawkin's Spectrum of Theistic Probability
"1.Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
2.De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
3.Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
4.Com pletely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
5.Leaning towards Agnosticism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
6.De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
7.Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."
Dawkins argues that while there appear to be plenty of individuals that would place themselves as "1" due to the strictness of religious doctrine against doubt, most atheists do not consider themselves "7" because atheism arises from a lack of evidence and evidence can always change a thinking person's mind. In print, Dawkins self-identified as a '6', though when interviewed by Bill Maher[3] and later by Anthony Kenny,[4] he suggested '6.9' to be more accurate."
I left the example out earlier.

Here.
Qu_innocence wrote:
It is as plain as a clear, sunshiny day. They even admit to it.
Just so there is no confusion here. What do you think is being implied and how?
Qu_innocence wrote:
The probability that order in the universe and the laws of nature came out of chaos is virtually nil... with that in mind, creation itself is proof that there is a divine being.
What is that probability based upon? Where do the numbers come from, and how is the probability arrived at?
Qu_innocence wrote:
Do you believe in the possibility of the existence of aliens?
Based upon the fact that life has evolved on this planet? Yes.
Qu_innocence wrote:
If either group explicitly believes in their position, then it is faith. Interesting the Spectrum of theistic probability that R. Dawkins conjured up.
As in this example?
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg601/sca...

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#582639 Sep 1, 2013
Here For Now wrote:
<quoted text>
Grow up.
xtian grow-op?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#582640 Sep 1, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
:-)
I'd rather just hug.
I do play the violin. I'm not bad on the cello and guitar either. I have a knack for stringed instruments.
I don't understand your religion. It seems silly to me. That's not your fault.
Don't you dare play no damn games with me. I'm of higher voltage than you could ever have a nightmare over. You don't understand a lot of things and you choosen not to try to understand a lot of things. You and afew others have come in this thread and made it into you own personal play ground of mischief, hatefulness, mockery and in general a slut house. You have disrespected people that never done one damn dirty deed to not a one of you. People who been here for years with each other. You worked at destroying friendships and you certainly have not made the effort to make friend with not a one of the older ones who's been on this thread a number of years. Instead you mocked, played, entertained yourself like some two year old in a sand box. What may be silly to you others treasure dearly yet you think it is your privilege to destroy that. If you do not like religion then you need to find a place where the program you promoting fits. Damn right it not my fault it is yours and you responsible for the way you conduct yourself. Now I going to tell you straight up front stay if you want or leave if you want because I could give a rats azz what you think of me but you can bet your sweet panties I gonna keep you on the line when it comes to the posters that been here for years.So you best watch how you choose to abuse them.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#582641 Sep 1, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>From what I'm reading... it's not that simple. I mean, I'm sure from you are telling me that it is that simple to you, River. But other atheist's seem to be splitting hairs on the matter and I was ignorant of that. I'm just looking into the matter, myself.
Dawkin's Spectrum of Theistic Probability
"1.Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
2.De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
3.Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
4.Com pletely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
5.Leaning towards Agnosticism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
6.De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
7.Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."
Dawkins argues that while there appear to be plenty of individuals that would place themselves as "1" due to the strictness of religious doctrine against doubt, most atheists do not consider themselves "7" because atheism arises from a lack of evidence and evidence can always change a thinking person's mind. In print, Dawkins self-identified as a '6', though when interviewed by Bill Maher[3] and later by Anthony Kenny,[4] he suggested '6.9' to be more accurate."
You're reading too much into it, Qu.

Once again.

Atheist = I don't believe in gods.

There are no buts, ifs, ands, well maybes. It is what it is. You can't get past that fence.

It's like that movie clip that Tide just put up. Wing Chun is simple. It's balance. It's how we live. There are no theatrics about it unless they're made up. When they are made up they're false but nonetheless entertaining.

I'm an atheist. I know.

Your a theist. You don't.

I'm almost a Master of Wing Chun. I know.

You're not. You don't.

It doesn't get much simpler than that.

“Saved. ”

Since: Aug 12

Like Ice On planet Mercury

#582642 Sep 1, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
It's difficult for the theist to separate belief from non belief.
They take non belief to mean an active belief there are not deities.
I read further and I have to respectfully disagree with the author and that particular viewpoint...well, not entirely anyways because I can, in some ways, understand why Atheists are frustrated when trying to explain their views. But one can't get around the fact of "lack of evidence" supposedly... helps to shape their beliefs either way. A belief that a deity doesn't exist is still a belief. I could say, I have a lack of belief in Hermes all day but still yet... I believe hermes doesn't exist. It's a belief.

As far as proving anything. I can't speak for all theists but some theists, like myself, talk from a position of how can anyone believe, when following it to it's logical conclusion, that we just came out of chaos and poof!...exist? There's really nothing to prove 'cept try and explain.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#582643 Sep 1, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
From what I'm reading... it's not that simple. I mean, I'm sure from you are telling me that it is that simple to you, River. But other atheist's seem to be splitting hairs on the matter and I was ignorant of that. I'm just looking into the matter, myself.
Dawkin's Spectrum of Theistic Probability
"1.Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
2.De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
3.Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
4.Com pletely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
5.Leaning towards Agnosticism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
6.De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
7.Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."
Dawkins argues that while there appear to be plenty of individuals that would place themselves as "1" due to the strictness of religious doctrine against doubt, most atheists do not consider themselves "7" because atheism arises from a lack of evidence and evidence can always change a thinking person's mind. In print, Dawkins self-identified as a '6', though when interviewed by Bill Maher[3] and later by Anthony Kenny,[4] he suggested '6.9' to be more accurate."
This scale is flawed for it's use of "God" instead of "deity/deities".

"God" does not and cannot exist, because "God" is defined in logical contradictions.

If there is a deity, the Bible does not describe it.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#582644 Sep 1, 2013
River Tam wrote:
I don't like these movies. Ip Man was a great Master but Wing Chun was designed for women. It was to keep men from beating us up. It's about balance and defense. It's a way of life. It's not a movie. That being said:
That was a fuckincool clip.
The movies give people a reason to investigate.

I am not opposed to seeing more women in them.

:)

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#582645 Sep 1, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
It's difficult for the theist to separate belief from non belief.
They take non belief to mean an active belief there are not deities.
Sometimes I just like beating my head against a wall. It makes me forget about what I'm going to deal with later today.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#582646 Sep 1, 2013
Here For Now wrote:
<quoted text>
I would not call someone a pervert because they were gay. Neither would I wish someone dead or piss on their grave.
When you think about all the things that are said against Christians, what ever has been said against Gays in here is not any wore or maybe even not as bad as what has been said about our Lord and savior or/and Christians. What about that?? Or is trash talk against Christ and Christians ok but a no no only if the subject is gays??
I do not believe Chris hates Gays. He certainly would not have shared what he has with us. I said before and will say it again. There are gay haters out there and they are not Christians either. It is unreasonable to blame Christians for all that you think is bad. To do so is just a person using it to justify not liking Christians.
christianity is a Failed moral philosophy

I despise the effects that filthy system has had upon it's followers.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#582647 Sep 1, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>I read further and I have to respectfully disagree with the author and that particular viewpoint...well, not entirely anyways because I can, in some ways, understand why Atheists are frustrated when trying to explain their views. But one can't get around the fact of "lack of evidence" supposedly... helps to shape their beliefs either way. A belief that a deity doesn't exist is still a belief. I could say, I have a lack of belief in Hermes all day but still yet... I believe hermes doesn't exist. It's a belief.
As far as proving anything. I can't speak for all theists but some theists, like myself, talk from a position of how can anyone believe, when following it to it's logical conclusion, that we just came out of chaos and poof!...exist? There's really nothing to prove 'cept try and explain.
A good friend of mine put it as such, and maybe this will help you.




The atheist position is not that the answer is no. It is that there is no reason to ask the question.- fukrot

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 4 min June VanDerMark 573,737
Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus ... (Mar '07) 8 min RiccardoFire 39,603
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 11 min Wyle E Coyote 809,046
Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 15 min onemale 268,808
Will Atheism defeat religion by year 2038? 26 min spider1954 13
Moses never existed 40 min HipGnosis 1,268
bless the jews (Nov '08) 50 min New life ahead 7,119
Which is the Oldest Indian Language? Sanskrit V... (Jul '08) 4 hr My name is Ashok ... 5,624
Sleeping with mother (Oct '13) 9 hr hehehe7385 17
More from around the web