Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#577918 Aug 24, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>I understand the sentiment and frustration but the thing is that 99% plus of the members have no ability or authority to police itself and enforce discipline. It's like holding citizens responsible for what elected officials do when they do things we didn't elect them to do. And citizens have more say then congregants.
Yet should we have to quit out local churches that are run right and we do have some say over how things are done? And to what end? My local church does a lot of good and I'm involved in several of its charities. Citizens aren't expected to renounce their citizenship out of protest.
The Catholic pope quit which had never happened specifically because by doing so the hundreds of people in power positions automatically lose their jobs. He did it because of the coverups. It was the most efficient way to clean house.
But all people can do is what they have control over and try to make sure their little corner of society is working how it should be. We can't police a worldwide organization. My loyalty is to my local church and specifically to God. The Vatican doesn't even play a role for me. But even if it did, I would never turn my back on a local organization that does so much for its community because someone halfway around the world is immoral. In a perfect world these things wouldn't happen. And not to minimize it but the reality simply is there is no way to prevent it.
People will do evil things. That's just a fact of life. And the bigger the organization, the higher percentage that some of its members will be corrupt. But all we can do is make sure we are living honorable lives and report things when we become aware of them, if something happens locally
There it is.
Use your voice.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#577919 Aug 24, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
;o)
I agree with your thoughts on the the VP, not so sure about your thoughts on Vonnegut though.
I haven't read all his stuff though, and if you've been reading along, you'll probably realize I dont remember much of what I did read from him........
Personally like I stated before I think he was just more of a cult hero then anything. It became cool to know of him and read him. He was brilliant but so were many other authors who maybe dont have the notoriety he has. JMO......
If by cult hero you mean a writer that sends the mind on a journey of swirling thought, fascinating ideas and concepts, that at the end of a book, leaves you wishing it was longer or just a bit more so it wouldn't end, no matter how perfect the ending was, then yeah, I imagine you might call hims a cult hero.

If that's the case, then "cult hero" applies to all good or great authors.
Bongo

United States

#577920 Aug 24, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, Rider. To each his own. I read anything and everything.
I work in a morgue. The conversations are always one sided but it's a captive audience.
of course, what else could you do?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#577922 Aug 24, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont look down on people because of their education levels, nor do I admire them either. I like or dislike people based on their personality. I like kind, goodhearted people and thats who I surround myself with. Maybe thats why i have such a hard time on topix.
I'm sure you could tell me stories about the LDS church and sammiches that would fascinate me, but right now i'm just intereted in the silk scarves........
PS: pipes leak because they have holes in them........
Can you explain why you have been nothing but rude and insulting to me?
Imhotep

Windermere, FL

#577923 Aug 24, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Largely incorrect.
Talk is cheap - prove it wrong ;)

And while you're at it...

Neither Egyptian nor Roman history records any persons known as Moses or Jesus.

NOTE
Feel free to DISPROVE the following...

Please refrain from using Christian apologists as their viewpoints are clearly biased in favor of their dogma.

These alleged 'saviours/prophets' exist only in holy books, which themselves are copied from previous legends and myths.

"In fact, the quest for Biblical accounts of ancient Egypt at least into the 19th Dynasty of Egypt's New Kingdom, take on an interesting approach by most investigators. Essentially, since there is no evidence to clearly support the existence of Joseph, or Moses, or the Israeli Exodus, most of the investigation examines what was possible, what cannot be ruled out, or what fits into and Egyptian context.

In other words, is it possible that such events or people could have existed from what we know of ancient Egypt.

Some specifics are very possible, such as Joseph's rise to importance in the Egyptian court.

Other events, such as the Exodus, as specifically told in the Bible, are much more difficult.

Though the Egyptians may not have liked to record defeats, it would seem very probable that, were the disasters inflicted upon them as detailed in the Bible, there would have survived some textual evidence.

For example, the Egyptians recorded events such as eclipses of the sun and the levels of the Nile Flood.

Were the Nile to have turned to blood and every firstborn child suddenly have died, not to mention all of the other plagues mentioned in Exodus, there would have doubtless been some record left, particularly during the New Kingdom. Tomb records frequently provide us with the most meager of details, and we have, from that period, many thousands of documents recording civil actions and even commercial contracts."

"Despite the mass of contemporary records that have been unearthed in Egypt, not one historical reference to the presence of the Israelites has yet been found there. Not a single mention of Joseph, the Pharaoh's 'Grand Vizier'. Not a word about Moses, or the spectacular flight from Egypt and the destruction of the pursuing Egyptian army."
Magnus Magnusson (The Archaeology of the Bible Lands - BC, p43)

For many centuries the Egyptians were present in Palestine, controlling the trade routes and importing the timber, olive oil and minerals not found in Egypt.

Archaeology has uncovered dramatic evidence of this pervasive Egyptian presence in 'Canaan'– yet nowhere does the Bible refer to Egyptians outside of Egypt.

It would spoil the story!

How could Hebrews escape into the promised land if the Bible admitted Egyptians were running the show there too?

"Neither Moses, nor an enslaved Israel nor the event of this Exodus are recorded in any known ancient records outside the Bible ...
Although its climate has preserved the tiniest traces of ancient bedouin encampments and the sparse 5000-year-old villages of mine workers there is not a single trace of Moses or the Israelites."
– John Romer, Testament

I look forward to seeing your published scientific findings that find evidence that will literally astound the Archaeological world.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#577924 Aug 24, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I, for one, was hoping that disaster befell him but that's just me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =rgBODH84gaEXX
Leave a mentally unstable little girl alone with PBS and the Internet and you get.........Me :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Very cool, in my opinion.

There used to be lots of teachers like Julius, btw.

I'm pretty sure you turned out exactly how you're supposed to be.

That's cool too.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#577925 Aug 24, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Why couldn't A&E have sex before they ate the apple ?
The writer was going for effect?

hahaaa

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#577926 Aug 24, 2013
Had the exodus occurred exactly as the Bible says, the Egyptions would have recorded it as a victory where the Pharaoh drive out the evil foreigners from the land. The Egyptians were just as notorious for there falsifying of events. The treaty of Kadesh being a good example
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Talk is cheap - prove it wrong ;)
And while you're at it...
Neither Egyptian nor Roman history records any persons known as Moses or Jesus.
NOTE
Feel free to DISPROVE the following...
Please refrain from using Christian apologists as their viewpoints are clearly biased in favor of their dogma.
These alleged 'saviours/prophets' exist only in holy books, which themselves are copied from previous legends and myths.
"In fact, the quest for Biblical accounts of ancient Egypt at least into the 19th Dynasty of Egypt's New Kingdom, take on an interesting approach by most investigators. Essentially, since there is no evidence to clearly support the existence of Joseph, or Moses, or the Israeli Exodus, most of the investigation examines what was possible, what cannot be ruled out, or what fits into and Egyptian context.
In other words, is it possible that such events or people could have existed from what we know of ancient Egypt.
Some specifics are very possible, such as Joseph's rise to importance in the Egyptian court.
Other events, such as the Exodus, as specifically told in the Bible, are much more difficult.
Though the Egyptians may not have liked to record defeats, it would seem very probable that, were the disasters inflicted upon them as detailed in the Bible, there would have survived some textual evidence.
For example, the Egyptians recorded events such as eclipses of the sun and the levels of the Nile Flood.
Were the Nile to have turned to blood and every firstborn child suddenly have died, not to mention all of the other plagues mentioned in Exodus, there would have doubtless been some record left, particularly during the New Kingdom. Tomb records frequently provide us with the most meager of details, and we have, from that period, many thousands of documents recording civil actions and even commercial contracts."
"Despite the mass of contemporary records that have been unearthed in Egypt, not one historical reference to the presence of the Israelites has yet been found there. Not a single mention of Joseph, the Pharaoh's 'Grand Vizier'. Not a word about Moses, or the spectacular flight from Egypt and the destruction of the pursuing Egyptian army."
Magnus Magnusson (The Archaeology of the Bible Lands - BC, p43)
For many centuries the Egyptians were present in Palestine, controlling the trade routes and importing the timber, olive oil and minerals not found in Egypt.
Archaeology has uncovered dramatic evidence of this pervasive Egyptian presence in 'Canaan'– yet nowhere does the Bible refer to Egyptians outside of Egypt.
It would spoil the story!
How could Hebrews escape into the promised land if the Bible admitted Egyptians were running the show there too?
"Neither Moses, nor an enslaved Israel nor the event of this Exodus are recorded in any known ancient records outside the Bible ...
Although its climate has preserved the tiniest traces of ancient bedouin encampments and the sparse 5000-year-old villages of mine workers there is not a single trace of Moses or the Israelites."
– John Romer, Testament
I look forward to seeing your published scientific findings that find evidence that will literally astound the Archaeological world.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#577927 Aug 24, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Very cool, in my opinion.
There used to be lots of teachers like Julius, btw.
I'm pretty sure you turned out exactly how you're supposed to be.
That's cool too.
I style myself after Mr. Wizard.

Here he is debunking icecap melting resulting in global flooding:

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#577928 Aug 24, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. it's my contention that what you and Serah term a 'spiritual experience' happens to believers and non-believers alike and is usually prompted by an intense emotional state including grief, fear or euphoria ..
.. believers interpret it as a sign of God while non-believers look to science for answers. These experiences are personal and difficult to articulate ..
.. the day I watched my grandfather die, I don't know if my 'spiritual experience,' my exquisite 'high' at the moment of his death, came from the neurons in my brain or from some Higher Power transmitting energy ..
.. I don't know what it was all about and, frankly, I don't need to know; a rational or irrational explanation is not necessary ..
.. was it a gift from God, an altered brain? Who knows? All I know is I had the power of a million and when he finally died, I experienced a profound love. For me, that is the very essence of a spiritual experience and it goes beyond definition ..
.. I don't want to play word semantics because it was my experience and I choose to define it as spiritual ..
I tend to think religion in general, and Christianity in specific attempts to claim exclusive rights to that thing we all experience known as spiritual.

They truly need you to think or believe that you can only experience "spiritual" - in its true form(sarcasm intended)- if you adhere to the religion deity belief etc...

As if any other claim to experiencing that which is spiritual outside of the religion/deity belief is false or a lesser experience.
Imhotep

Windermere, FL

#577929 Aug 24, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Largely incorrect.
Largely in denial of reality. ;)

Your alternate evidence? present it.

Prove god Mithras did not exist 600 years prior to your myth. Do the same thing with Krishna. Similar story. Statues of Mithras survive to this day.

The desert religions have one book - let me repeat that... One Book.

This book has been written, rewritten, abridged , Obfuscated literally thousands of times.

Better yet if you can afford it, travel to Egypt
Visit to Valley of the kings, I recommend the tour.

Important!
Ask your tour guide about Moses!

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#577930 Aug 24, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
The writer was going for effect?
hahaaa
Going to give ammo to the "perfect Bible" theory here.

There are several things going on the "Garden" myth. Obviously to any rational thinker the literal interpretation is silly. However, one can read it as a metaphor for things we are just discovering like the shift from hunter gatherer to agriculture, the evolution from animal to human etc.

Now, I would argue that the Bible is "perfect" in that it contains many things that we are just discovering and were unknown 4000 years ago.

Literalism and Creationism are wrong. The Bible is clearly an advanced allegorical work that could not be understood by primitive peoples. THAT is what proves it is the "Word of God".

Now, isn't that much more believable an apologetic than any Christian has come up with in 2000 years ?

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#577931 Aug 24, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>In my faith, Hiding, I believe our bodies were originally designed to live forever. I'll spare you detailed info about sin and how it came into the world to cease all of that...but over long periods of time as sin increased, so did the erosion of mankind's longevity. Eventually, the Lord said, "My Spirit will not always 'contend' with man... and his days will be numbered to 120 years..."
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Your idea of "sin" is a cultural construct
It is true that within the Christian arena, our "understandings" or even "misunderstandings" determines our worldview in that matter.

The true meaning of sin in Christianity is the idea of one "who misses the mark." You know, I've read that when the Space shuttle was in operation... that in preparation of making re-entry into earth the pilot had to be thoroughly precise and make sure that the shuttle hit the exact mark of entry. If they were off that mark by even the slightest degree then they would end up hundreds of miles off course.

So as far as sin is concerned in Christianity, the question may be raised, "Misses which mark? The mark in this sense is complete trust in God and (at times painstaking) obedience to His will. For example, it isn't God's will that any man perish but that all come to repentance. So from a Christian perspective, those who "continually" choose not to repent (or change course of action)... are "off course" and their current rate of descent is into a place into which it would be better if one was never born.

Using the idea of a faithful GPS that recalculates an avenue to get one back on course when one turns away, so it is with God who makes a way for humanity to get back on course through Christ Jesus.... even on down to an individual basis when a Christian slips up. "But" like the idea of a GPS which cannot control a person's freedom of movenment.... so it is with our freedom of choice.

Now with anything which separates from the mainstream (in any religion), there are different sub-cultures like denominations (or actual cults as one understands them in a negative sense) within Christendom who have differing intensities on their views on sin.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#577932 Aug 24, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Hehehe. Yah, that's the Mick gene.
Heh heh heh.
That's an interesting posit.
Somehow, early on, there was a fateful event in the Emerald Isle. One that caused the infusion of other mammals genetics in the human chromosome. It is obvious that there was some kind of recombination of "horse sense and bullshit" far more prevalent on these peoples than in other areas of the world, which has endowed these "tellers of tales" to make the most enjoyable prose from scratch, that will mezmerize ya and demand yer attention til the "teller" let's ya off the hook(usually with a quick slice o' humor)!

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#577933 Aug 24, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
I like your view on that, however, most denominations do make that distinction. If not there would be only one Denomination and doctrine of Christianity.
It is difficult, it seems, for an insider to realize how the divisions make the entire religion look like a bad joke.
The argument, and it is quite valid, is that if it is the unchanging word of God and interpreted perfectly (which they all claim) then they should all be in perfect agreement.
Since they disagree, even the slightest, then it proves it is NOT the unchanging word of God and interpreted perfectly.
That is not a condemnation but a simple observation of the reality of Christianity.
One groups says that you, Skom, are going to Hell because you weren't really Baptized. Another says you are going to Hell because you don't wear plain clothes and drive a car.
I have come to the opinion that hey are all nuts and will take my chance after my death and just try and kive this life as best I can and let the chips fall where they may...and I am done listening to others tell me "what God said".
Good post.
"Freedom of information" has had quite an affect, hasn't it?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#577934 Aug 24, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
I style myself after Mr. Wizard.
Here he is debunking icecap melting resulting in global flooding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =iKiq5EwkzDgXX
When the education of people, and by that I mean children, youth, adults etc..., became a business or career option instead of a passion driven "calling" or desire, I think we all have experienced a detriment.

My opinion.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#577935 Aug 24, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I get an 'A'?
I prefer fact to fantasy.
"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad."
~ALDOUS HUXLEY
Yes, you did get an (A)-and a gold star.
There are ancient writings to that effect, which are more elaborated.
They stress the need to seek knowledge, develop wisdom with it's attributes, and make fair and just judgements with these "tools".
It is tantamount in the ancient Egyptian teachings. The Abrahamic's have perverted those teachings, and made that earlier civilization look as though it is "evil".
How ironic is that?

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#577936 Aug 24, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
It's goimg well so far.
My doctors are all women. I do not know what they think when I drop my pants. They are professionals.
My doc is a woman too I told her I feel funny about dropping my pants... She said do you know how many men I have seen nude???? thousands I said OK here we go!!!!!! You know what she said??????? WOW Clownie WOW its huge.....

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#577937 Aug 24, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Going to give ammo to the "perfect Bible" theory here.
There are several things going on the "Garden" myth. Obviously to any rational thinker the literal interpretation is silly. However, one can read it as a metaphor for things we are just discovering like the shift from hunter gatherer to agriculture, the evolution from animal to human etc.
Now, I would argue that the Bible is "perfect" in that it contains many things that we are just discovering and were unknown 4000 years ago.
Literalism and Creationism are wrong. The Bible is clearly an advanced allegorical work that could not be understood by primitive peoples. THAT is what proves it is the "Word of God".
Now, isn't that much more believable an apologetic than any Christian has come up with in 2000 years ?
That may be a better apologetic, but I'm not so sure that the "primitive" people of the time wouldn't have understood the allegory contained there. It'd be difficult to prove they couldn't or did, but still, stories of allegory have been and still are used - usually tailored to the people of the time, and at the time - so I do think it's possible that it could have been understood as an allegorical representation of the origins of a people or culture, and in subsequent centuries merged into literal beliefs, with the allegorical components forgotten.

Its a fascinating subject for myself, these primitive stories from cultures I often think were understood to be largely allegorical and - not - literal by the people of the time, and I tend to think they were perfectly aware of that - then.

Time distorts many things.

That's just my opinion.

I could easily see in the "garden of Eden" story Adam & Eve partaking of the tree as an allegorical representation of the move from polytheism to monotheism. Adam & Eve,(the two central figures representing a larger collective or culture) possibly losing favor with Yahweh (a newly chosen god, in a new creation or beginning), moving from polytheism to monotheism and he (Yahweh) "booted" them from the old beliefs.

Banished. No more multiple deities. It's Yahweh or the highway.

Maybe they still were drawn to Asherah. The old ways being hard to put down. The mythical Garden story enforcing that the people were no longer polytheistic. It may very well be a story representing a coming of age of the people.

A complete abolition of the previous beliefs. No more eternal life(Asherah), for YOU! Unless you earn it now. Through Yahweh.

No room for other gods.

Somewhere along the way the intent in explaining the origin of a people became lost in legend and memory. I get that people of the time literally believed in the gods, however I still think there was an element of awareness that "This is just our deity story, one among many", that is lost upon people today.

That's all opinion. too.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#577938 Aug 24, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
I got it all figured out Cap; Tis not too much for me to worry or wonder over. LOL the lion only wants the choice morsels. And folks got enough problems with me sober lol One drink and they have a wild heathen on their hands. lol. I'm used to walking troubled waters.So as the saying goes if ya don't mind it sure don't matter.lol
That's the spirit sis!
Always put yer boots on before wading in shit...but you already know that.

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