Why Should Jesus Love Me?
Imhotep

United States

#574178 Aug 18, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
I was told I had demons once. Just because I took this fundie cow to task, for leaving her kids alone with a known pedophile.
Ich hoffe, Sie genießen einen sehr schönen Gebäck mit Kaffee.:)

In my humble opinion Rosa...

Threats of hell are hilarious
This is all these people have
Too bad for them there is no such thing as hell or heaven
Plus these threats, meant to inspire fear, promote only laughter and ridicule.

Theists who believe in a divinely created Earth, and in the literal truth of the alleged 'holy book' aka the Bible containing 'hearsay' stories, written by primitive men, must reinterpret all new things discovered in light of the same source material.

The Secular humanist will read this and then make a judgment if it warrants merit or outright rejection.

We will not seek an apologist - we will use our intellect to determine the validity of the content.

In short we will question anything and everything.

The literal theist, on the other hand, is forced to say ...

"Either that's a lie, it's wrong, or God is testing my faith by giving Me yet more contradictory evidence that on the surface seems telling but really doesn't mean anything."

This dog will not hunt.

“Reason and faith are opposites, two mutually exclusive terms: there is no reconciliation or common ground. Faith is belief without, or in spite of, reason.”~George H. Smith
Imhotep

United States

#574179 Aug 18, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
Killing an animal and then cooking and eating it! How bizzare!
"And they shall eat the flesh of the sacrifice on that night roasted..."
So, as long as society is flinging the Bible at us, and our politicians are quoting from it relentlessly, and Christians smugly and conspicuously carry the book with them everywhere, and Televangelists wave it dramatically, declaring it to be the "world's best-selling book for a reason,"
It may be the world's best seller, but not one in a thousand knows what's really in it.

Example:
One of the most conspicuous blind spots Christians display is regarding Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount."

The sermon begins in Matthew 5:3. Some of its better known "beatitudes" include: Verses 3 through 5 - "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Also Verses 7 through 9 - "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

Ironic that a mere eight verses later, in the same "Sermon on the Mount" Jesus says this: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-19)

And again, "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (John 5:46-47)

There you have it. Jesus is unambiguously talking about Old Testament Law.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#574180 Aug 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The idea that ancient people thought the world was flat is quite silly. Most civilizations were seafaring in their trade - and all sailors know the earth is round. When you see ships coming over the horizon, their highest parts appear first. Sails, then top deck, then hull, etc.
Polynesians most certainly knew the Earth was a globe. They forged a society across the entire Pacific well before Europeans and even Chinese dared to think about crossing the great oceans.
The Polynesians were adventurous to be sure... I can't find in their myths where they believed the earth was a globe... or round though.

I'm sure, being islanders, that it took them many years to learn how to voyage long distances and over time founded these societies. Some questions I have is why did they leave in the first place? Did they do so in search of food to stave off starvation? Were they given an ultimatum by other fellow islanders? Did some loved one go out, never came back and they went in search for them? Were they looking to conquer? How did they get there in the first place? Were they looking for some golden fruit or coconut???

Looks like they descended from Taiwanese aboriginies... at least that is what one study of their genetic traits suggest.

__________

"And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward Him and find Him. Yet He is actually not far from each one of us..." Acts 17:26-28
Imhotep

United States

#574181 Aug 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I kept those questions. There used to be five:
[1] Provide evidence that humans have souls.
[2] Provide evidence that your God is the one true God in a way that religions other than your own cannot do.
[3] Provide evidence that there is a heaven/paradise if you believe in it.
[4] Provide evidence that there is a hell if you believe in it.
[5] Provide evidence that your holy book is true in a way that religions other than your own cannot do with their holy book(s)
My questions were chosen for a different purpose than those. Those questions test the validity of the claims in the bible. I was challenging a particular believer's claim that he was qualified to reject the claims of others regarding what the bible says.
Incidentally, on this thread, "Epi" usually refers to Epiphany. She may ask you what you are talking about.
<quoted text>
Igualmente, amigo.
I had a folder of your many links
Like me, you RESEARCH !
I used these often.:)
I dropped 3 because in retrospect , they applied to Christians.
I used, your terrific 'atheist church' to any poster that had the temerity to say atheism is a religion!
You might want to c/p this?
Tacitus et al stuff...
Like those of the Jewish writer Josephus, the works of the ancient historians Pliny, Suetonius and Tacitus do not provide proof that Jesus Christ ever existed as a "historical" character.
Pliny the Younger, Roman Official and Historian (62-113 CE)
Tacitus, Roman Politician and Historian,(c. 56-120 CE)
Suetonius, Roman Historian (c. 69-c. 122 CE)
When addressing the mythical nature of Jesus Christ, one issue repeatedly raised is the purported "evidence" of his existence to be found in the writings of Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish general and historian who lived from about 37 to 100 CE.
In Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews appears the notorious passage regarding Christ called the "Testimonium Flavianum" ("TF"):
"Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."
The are: No sculptures, no drawings, no markings in stone, nothing written in his own hand; and no letters, no commentaries, indeed no authentic documents written by his Jewish and Gentile contemporaries, Justice of Tiberius, Philo, Josephus, Seneca, Petronius Arbiter, Pliny the Elder, et al., to lend credence to his historicity.
In the final analysis there is no evidence that the biblical character called "Jesus Christ" ever existed.
All of these historians were born well after the alleged events.
'Hearsay' is not 'evidence'.
Caesar by comparison is easily verified.
Here is a story very similar to your myth... ;)
And no... not an atheist site
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristiani...

After you dwell on that - bear in mind this same myth - exists for the Egyptian god RA. It is believed by many that the Egyptian religion is the prototype for which all other desert religions evolved.

http://youtube.com/watch...

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#574183 Aug 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The idea that ancient people thought the world was flat is quite silly. Most civilizations were seafaring in their trade - and all sailors know the earth is round. When you see ships coming over the horizon, their highest parts appear first. Sails, then top deck, then hull, etc.
Polynesians most certainly knew the Earth was a globe. They forged a society across the entire Pacific well before Europeans and even Chinese dared to think about crossing the great oceans.
...and btw, not all sailors in the world at that time believed the earth was round... I think even during Columbus' time sailors believed the world was flat.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574185 Aug 18, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems I am caught in the middle of your definitions.
My belief in God and Jesus is secular ?
Only you can answer that.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#574186 Aug 18, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm with u on this one, Aura!
The Jews and the Muslims sacrifice so many animals to God. I think this is more of a cultural thing than a religious one. That's why Christians don't do it, but does killing lots of turkeys on thanks giving and Christmas count as sacrifice? I'm sure that's also a ritual.
There r some sects in India that also sacrifice animals, they r retards!!! Scum of the earth!!
Christians don't sacrifice animals to atone for sin because Jesus is the one and only sacrifice to save the world from sin (those who come to put their trust in Him anyways)

But people sacrifice human lives everyday when that life is snuffed out through abortion.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574188 Aug 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What higher purpose than self are you referring to? Trifecta told us that the purpose of life is to save your own soul.

Those rules seem to be mostly about protecting us from the wrathful judgment of the god, such as rules against blasphemy and fornication.

You probably know that before secularists criminalized it, people were actually burning other people alive based on their understanding of those rules.

Secular humanist values seem to do a better job of protecting us from one another. Are you aware of the positive correlation between religiosity and crime in America? How do you account for that?

It's pretty difficult to make a rational argument for being a Christian unless there really is a hell.
agapaoHope wrote:
The things that you point out are MAN made errors- done in the NAME of God- NOT God made errors. See ?
Sorry, but I don't see. Not only do I not know what part of my post you are referring to as a man made error - the crime? burning witches? rules against blasphemy?- you do understand that you are posting to an unbeliever, correct? Of course they're men's errors.
agapaoHope wrote:
Man.... the very beings created by God--- ARE the enemy- NOT God.
I really dislike the way your church teaches you to think about mankind.

[1] Christian misanthropy - man does mostly harm - is one of the dozen worst things it teaches.

Others include:

[2] Christian antiscientism (don't believe or trust scientists)
[3] Christian anti-intellectualism (the wise are fools)
[4] Christian misogyny (the war on reproductive freedom)
[5] Christian atheophobia (unbelievers are morally unfit and infested with demons)
[6] Christian homophobia
[7] Christian infantilizing (self-actualization is arrogant pride, submission and obedience are good)
[8] Christian sexual guilt
[9] Christian psychological terrorism (threats of eternal torture)
[10] Christian alienation ("the world" is bad, heaven is better)
[11] Christian self-loathing (you are spirit trapped in vile flesh)
[12] Christian easy self-forgiveness

What does the church offer us in exchange for all of this societal burden?

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#574189 Aug 18, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
Underground springs feeding lakes and rivers were well known 10,000 years ago.
You are seeing faces in the clouds.
Good Morning Lamchop... the Hebrew word they used for "springs" in the great "deep" is actually talking about subterranean waters... like in the ocean.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574190 Aug 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:

Your response isn't adequate. Sorry. I'm sure you're not discriminatory, except to women, but the Christian religion has to answer to these crimes they've committed and are still committing, in some regions.
To what crimes are you referring?
Your answer reminded me of a representative of the Catholic church who was attacked for their stance on homosexuality, their actions for pedophile priests, and the various crimes against humanity it carried out for hundreds of years.
How so? I told him I was tired of the atheist negativity.
She answered in the same way "you people always bring these issues up! Can't we move beyond them?"
That's not what I said.
No. No, you cannot. You haven't answered for them yet.
Answered for what?!?
(not you personally, and I'm aware that the Catholic church is undergoing some changes atm).
K

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574191 Aug 18, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I can see that, the way an ignorant child (faith) needs to hold the hand of the adult parent (science).
And whenever faith isn't holding hands with science, being completely subordinate to science, it runs out in front of traffic.
Good analogy, RH.
You have faith in science.

Deal with it.
Imhotep

United States

#574192 Aug 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know, but that sounds right
<quoted text>
I kept three pieces from you besides the one I just reposted. Here they are in three posts:
Science attempts to apply some of the following criteria:
[1] Skepticism of unsupported claims
[2] Combination of an open mind with critical thinking
[3] Attempts to repeat experimental results.
[4] Requires testability
[5] Seeks out falsifying data that would disprove a hypothesis
[6] Uses descriptive language
[7] Performs controlled experiments
[8] Self-correcting
[9] Relies on evidence and reason
[10] Makes no claim for absolute or certain knowledge
[11] Produces useful knowledge
Pseudoscience and religion rely on some of the following criteria:
[1] Has a negative attitude to skepticism
[2] Does not require critical thinking
[3] Does not require experimental repeatability
[4] Does not require tests
[5] Does not accept falsifying data that would disprove a hypothesis
[6] Uses vague language
[7] Relies on anecdotal evidence
[8] No self-correction
[9] Relies on belief and faith
[10] Makes absolute claims
[11] Produces no useful knowledge
Pat Condell
Betty Bowers
Are
Always interesting

Funny links 4u

http://m.youtube.com/watch...

http://m.youtube.com/watch...

Jesus ain't coming back

http://touch.dailymotion.com/video/xe4g4w_jes...

This one is gr8t

http://m.youtube.com/watch...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574193 Aug 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Please point to one Christian theocracy where the leaders didn't lie for profit, and didn't cause massive human suffering.
I said 'the Bible teaches us...'

Pay attention.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574194 Aug 18, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
<tussles RH's hair>
Hey!

Don't.....

Touch....

THE DO!

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574195 Aug 18, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion is a good business - tax free.
I know. It sucks. It's not supposed to be a business.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574196 Aug 18, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Wasn't xdanox a girl?
...talked about panties all the time.
Maybe he was a pantyphobe.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574197 Aug 18, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
RH had just posted something very offensive, and he justified it by saying that Scar told him to do it.
So I was attempting to show RH that one should not do something just because somebody else told them to.
I wouldn't want RH to jump off a building.
Poison is a far better prescription.
Gofuckyourself

:p

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574198 Aug 18, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Bonza! It sounds like you're no muttonbrain, RR.
No ma'am.

Just a simpleton.

hehe

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574199 Aug 18, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
We need to put more emphasis on teaching the philosophy of science in public schools. I remember learning about the scientific method when I went to school, but there was little focus given to explaining the importance of it. We also need to make sure we teach everyone about logic. I learned through computer programming, but that wasn't a required course at the time.
Even if the fundies realized that teaching logic and the philosophy of science is in essence teaching rational skepticism, how could they openly oppose it without looking exactly like people who want to keep children ignorant? The attempt alone to put more focus on these subjects, and the subsequent opposition from YouKnowWho, would give us another example of how damaging faith is. So even if the attempt to improve education fails, the failure would make an excellent example to utilize later.
Skeptics are doing a lot right now just by socializing on the internet. This environment favors logically compelling arguments, while being a bad fit for the types of manipulation religion relies on to perpetuate. The shift in America towards more socialization on the internet is bad for religion. There's too much competition here, and the playing field is too fair. A type of natural selection is taking place.
The secularist agenda.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574200 Aug 18, 2013
RiversideHick wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not the shape or design of the pyramid that's the hard part, it's the blasting, cutting and moving of the 3 ton blocks.
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't "blast" limestone and have it remain solid fool.
I didn't say limestone, I said stone.

Referring to the granite.

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