Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#574116 Aug 18, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
But they surely did understand about the springs (vents) of the great deep which was discovered in 1977?
There's not a chance anyone knew about them until submarine technology. You're projecting your knowledge onto obscure readings in your mythology book - you're looking for and creating awe.

If the Bible really possessed this knowledge, why didn't you Christians just tell the rest of us deep ocean vents harboring H2S breathing and heat tolerant bacteria, heat tolerant shrimp feeding on them, and mollusks feeding on the shrimp existed?

The thing is the Bible never predicts anything with any accuracy. It does not describe knowledge from our time. If it did you would be able to tell us what new discoveries the human race will be making in the future.

Don't worry - no Christian has every done this using the Bible. But plenty have anachronistically projected their modern experiences onto the ancient passages it contains.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#574117 Aug 18, 2013
JuicyLullz wrote:
<quoted text>
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahah aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Brilliant. Yes, well, ahem. Well written.
hee, hee, hee, thank you :)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#574120 Aug 18, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Already talked at length regarding the use of the word circle (chuwg in hebrew). The fact that they thought the earth was circular was an advancement in that ancient compared to other nations. Not to mention how the earth was suspended on nothing (in an more ancient book) which we would consider held up by gravity:
"...He suspends the earth over nothing." Job 26:7
The idea that ancient people thought the world was flat is quite silly. Most civilizations were seafaring in their trade - and all sailors know the earth is round. When you see ships coming over the horizon, their highest parts appear first. Sails, then top deck, then hull, etc.

Polynesians most certainly knew the Earth was a globe. They forged a society across the entire Pacific well before Europeans and even Chinese dared to think about crossing the great oceans.
UdiotRACEMAKEWOR LDPEACE

United States

#574121 Aug 18, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Here is a testimony of another atheist turned Christian (while at college):
"My Christian friends in high school avoided talking to me about religion because they anticipated that I would tear down their poorly constructed arguments. And I did."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/marc...
Part 2
But we are not in High School no more, but adult debater with time to analyze...! i see those on here tear down you walls of ignorance! Not an Athiest and sure not religious! BWHhahhaaa

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#574123 Aug 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
They're already dying off. Have you seen this:
"'We cure HIV with anointing water': Six die after churches tell sufferers they don't need medicine. Church boasts it has a '100% success rate'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20661...
My guess is that their spouses will be next, assuming that they have the same firm faith in their god.
I wonder if they leave money to the church in their will.

Second thought: I guess that is one way to cure the world of creationists.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#574124 Aug 18, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
"Francis Collins, director of the human genome project, is an atheist turned Christian who sees a scientific basis for God that not only embraces modern science but actually relies on it."
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/god-and-coun...
Part 1
Collins wrote that only not believing in evolution is the mark of the uneducated.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#574126 Aug 18, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
We all make mistakes out of ignorance beyond our control. Those who know the truth and spread lies are the evil ones.
christian cults

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#574127 Aug 18, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
Wha is interesting about the Binding of Isaac is that Abraham disobeyed from the begining. Yeah, I read it first this time.
God told Abraham to take his "first born son" to the mountain for a sacrifice. Abraham took Isaac.
However, Ishmael was Abraham's "first born son".
Thanks for making me reread the story. Why did Abraham think he could fool God by switching children ? Maybe Abraham was really stupid ? Maybe there is something in the story everyone is missing. If it bothers me I will try to figure it out. At the moment it seems like just another garbled Jewish 'history'.
<quoted text>
Thanks for that!

So Abraham was afraid of God and didn't want to kill his firstborn. That destroys RiversideHick's claims.

That Abraham thought he could fool God in the story suggests that the original writers didn't consider Yahweh to be all powerful, but just another deity - their tribal deity.

On another thread I posted that the actual meaning of the story is to express the non-kin bond that all Jews have b/c of their shared religion. They bond must be stronger than their familial bond in that they will grant fellow believers the typical rights and freedoms that would only be given to family members in pre-society cultures.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#574128 Aug 18, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
Wha is interesting about the Binding of Isaac is that Abraham disobeyed from the begining. Yeah, I read it first this time.
God told Abraham to take his "first born son" to the mountain for a sacrifice. Abraham took Isaac.
However, Ishmael was Abraham's "first born son".
Thanks for making me reread the story. Why did Abraham think he could fool God by switching children ? Maybe Abraham was really stupid ? Maybe there is something in the story everyone is missing. If it bothers me I will try to figure it out. At the moment it seems like just another garbled Jewish 'history'.
<quoted text>
Hey, do you know anything about Mormonism?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574129 Aug 18, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
It's still difficult adjusting to a open tolerant society. Smoking hash on a sidewalk cafe, having coffee, conversation, while passerby's ignore. Surreal after years of hiding everywhere else except Jamaica'

The weather and language are the greatest obstacles. We have been able to really enjoy Europe. Rail is superb. Most weekends are spent out of town exploring The cathedral in Koln is fascinating. 14th century bldg that took 11 WWII bombs and stands.
Sounds pretty good.

Living abroad is really an eye opener, isn't it? You don't see your native culture as well solely from within it as you do both from within and from the outside. Travel teaches some of that lesson, but you don't get as full a perspective.

Pot is so socially acceptable here that I find it in the most unexpected places. Three couples had dinner last night. Charles is my bridge partner and has his Ph.D in international business, which he taught at university level. Johnny is a Ph.D psychologist and a former university dean. They're both in their mid to late sixties. After the restaurant, we went back to one of the homes and Johnny pulled out some pot from his garden.

Last week, a sixty-something retired math professor friend and I were walking to lunch when he pulled out a pipe and began hitting it in broad daylight.

I still find that kind of freedom surprising. Nobody I knew grew it or smoked it on the streets in the States.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574130 Aug 18, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
Whatever they say about the American way, it's better than some cultures.
No argument there.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574133 Aug 18, 2013
Bongo wrote:
I think that may be why he said to make yourself a fool to become wise.
I'm not sure that that is sound advice.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574140 Aug 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
How about apologizing for them to the person you "sinned" against? In my experience, that step mostly gets skipped in what appears to be a form of self-forgiveness, or forgiveness on demand. Many of the Christians on this thread do that. They seem to think that once they've muttered at the ceiling fan, all is forgiven and they have no further duty. In the secular ethics, you're not forgiven until the one you've offended forgives you.
Bongo wrote:
Its the same with Christians, contrary to your assertion. You must forgive all transgression real or perceived to be forgiven. What measure ye mete will be meted to you.
King James Version (KJV)
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
That's not ad rem, Bongo. I'm talking about being forgiven by the person you have offended, not by your god. In my world, you don't forgive to be forgiven. You apologize and hope that your apology is accepted.

Have you ever known anybody that asked Jehovah for forgiveness and was told no? In my experience, you pretty much get to assume that you have been forgiven, which is why I call it "self-forgiveness, or forgiveness on demand."

It seems too cheap and easy to me.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574143 Aug 18, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
you the unbelievers will be judged to be eternally Damned.
Is it Scary Chicken On The Stick time? Oh boy!

"Chicken arise! Arise, chicken, arise"

Why don't you take that crap to a schoolyard playground where it might actually scare somebody?
Abe Froman

United States

#574146 Aug 18, 2013
He is THE ONLY ONE THAT DIED FOR US......THINK ABOUT IT.....I LOVE HIM!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574147 Aug 18, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
Veo que están haciendo sus travesuras habituales!
Los del mexicano son muy, muy católica!
Genuflects
¿Está tropezar con iglesias como lo hicimos en Italia?
;)
I don't mind religion here nearly as much as I did in the States, probably because I don't read the papers or watch the Mexican news. There are plenty of churches, of course.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574148 Aug 18, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
Can you tell me, as a long time topix resident, when I last posted as Epi?2011 perhaps?

I don't know, but that sounds right
Imhotep wrote:
I had a wealth of research material I lost on old laptop .
I kept three pieces from you besides the one I just reposted. Here they are in three posts:

Science attempts to apply some of the following criteria:

[1] Skepticism of unsupported claims
[2] Combination of an open mind with critical thinking
[3] Attempts to repeat experimental results.
[4] Requires testability
[5] Seeks out falsifying data that would disprove a hypothesis
[6] Uses descriptive language
[7] Performs controlled experiments
[8] Self-correcting
[9] Relies on evidence and reason
[10] Makes no claim for absolute or certain knowledge
[11] Produces useful knowledge

Pseudoscience and religion rely on some of the following criteria:

[1] Has a negative attitude to skepticism
[2] Does not require critical thinking
[3] Does not require experimental repeatability
[4] Does not require tests
[5] Does not accept falsifying data that would disprove a hypothesis
[6] Uses vague language
[7] Relies on anecdotal evidence
[8] No self-correction
[9] Relies on belief and faith
[10] Makes absolute claims
[11] Produces no useful knowledge

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574149 Aug 18, 2013
[1] Son Smothered with Duct Tape - Rev. Christy Edgar of God's Christian Outreach Ministry in Kansas City, Kan., pleaded guilty to murder and child abuse on Sept. 18, on the eve of her trial over the Dec. 30 death of her adopted son. Brian Edgar, 9, suffocated on vomit after he had been wrapped from head to toe with duct tape, leaving only his nose uncovered. He was being punished for "stealing food." The prosecutor said he and two other Edgar children were often disciplined by being tied up all night. Edgar's husband and four other church members still face child abuse charges. Source: AP, Sept. 18, 2003

[2] Sisters Hacked to Death - Three Jordanian brothers hacked their two sisters to death with axes on Sept. 8 in the capital city of Amman, in an "honor killing" condoned under Muslim culture.

The 27-year-old sister, who had a 10-month-old baby, had left home nearly two years ago to marry a man without her family's consent. Her 20-year-old sister had joined her three months ago. "It was a brutal scene. One victim's head was nearly cut clean off," an official said.

The day before the killings Parliament had rejected a bill imposing harsher sentences for "honor killings." Source: BBC News, Sept. 10, 2003

[3] Baby Dies Without Care - A couple who chose prayer instead of medicine, watching their sick baby daughter die, was sentenced to a year of weekends in jail and parenting classes. Julia, 11 months, died of bacterial meningitis in July 2001, suffering high fever, vomiting, and convulsions. The parents pleaded no contest to charges of involuntary manslaughter and child abuse. Richard and Angeles Weibe are members of the Church of God, Upland, Calif., which shuns medical care. Source: Associated Press, Sept. 16, 2003

[4] Untreated Newborn Dies - Rhiana Rose Schmidt, who was born on Aug. 17, died on Aug. 19, after being delivered breech-birth at home to parents who belong to the General Assembly Church of the Firstborn in Morgantown, Ind. The church eschews medical care. She died of puerperal sepsis, a general infection acquired at birth, which is treated with antibiotics. She had difficulty breathing from the onset and the family knew she was ill, but believed it wrong to rely on medicine over "God's will."

Hers is the third such death involving children from the same church. Prematurely-born Aspen Daniel died at six days of dehydration and underdevelopment in November 1998. Bradley Hamm, 12, died in February 1999 of an undetected heart attack.

Indiana law provides a defense for parents providing "spiritual care." No charges have been brought in any of these cases. Source:[Johnson Co., Ind.] Daily Journal, Aug. 23-24, 2003

[5] Man Attempts Two Murders - A Seattle man said he slit his girlfriend's throat and tried to stab her friend on March 28 because God wanted him to eradicate them as "devils." Jacob Garnet, 32, who was charged with first-degree attempted murder and related charges, insists "God will ensure his acquittal." Source: King County Journal, Aug. 9, 2003

_____

[1] When God is preparing to go on another murdering spree, he tells the people of Israel to smear blood on their doors so that he’ll know which homes are occupied by his chosen people (Exodus 12:13).

[2] With this directive completed, he’s free to kill all the Egyptian firstborn male children without accidentally harming an Israelite, but why does he need blood on the doors to serve as a reminder if he knows everything? Jonah, like Cain before him, was able to leave the presence of God (Jonah 1:3).

[3] According to Zephaniah, God will search through Jerusalem with candles and find people who scoff at him (1:12). Why would God need candles to see in the dark?

[4] Judges 1:19 says that God was with the men of Judah in a battle, yet they couldn’t drive out the enemies because the other side was riding upon chariots of iron! Poor Superman – er - god

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574150 Aug 18, 2013
__________

[1] You believe in the truth of a book that describes a world where a flood can cover the whole earth and leave no trace.

[2] That's the world where man was made from mud and woman was grown from his rib like an off-cut from a plant?

[3] The world where a snake and donkey talked, where giants lived in the land, where dragons, unicorns and cockatrices exist and where people live to be over 900 years old?

[4] The world where a woman was turned into a pillar of salt, where a pillar of fire led people by night, where the sun stopped moving across the sky or could even back up, where an axe head can float on water, where a star could point down to a specific home, where people could instantly speak in foreign languages and where someone's shadow or handkerchief could heal you and where you can genetically alter sheep by floating slivers of tree bark in water?

[5] The world where a man could walk on water, turn water into wine, calm a stormy sea, be swallowed by a big fish and live to tell about it?

[6] The world that is full of demons that could create chaos on earth as well as make people sick?

[7] The world where you find idol worship and where human and animal sacrifices pleased God. It is a world where God lives in the sky and people who die go down to the dark recesses of the earth?

[8] The world that is full of visions, inspired dreams, prophetic utterances, miracle workers, magicians, diviners, etc. Man is not in control of his life. Evil spirits may possess him and Satan may inspire him with evil thoughts?

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#574152 Aug 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
There's not a chance anyone knew about them until submarine technology. You're projecting your knowledge onto obscure readings in your mythology book - you're looking for and creating awe.
If the Bible really possessed this knowledge, why didn't you Christians just tell the rest of us deep ocean vents harboring H2S breathing and heat tolerant bacteria, heat tolerant shrimp feeding on them, and mollusks feeding on the shrimp existed?
The thing is the Bible never predicts anything with any accuracy. It does not describe knowledge from our time. If it did you would be able to tell us what new discoveries the human race will be making in the future.
Don't worry - no Christian has every done this using the Bible. But plenty have anachronistically projected their modern experiences onto the ancient passages it contains.
Good Morn/Evening Hiding...Says it right here,

"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth..." Genesis 7:11

Please explain how they knew about this prior to the 1977 discovery. Thanks.

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