Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#573659 Aug 17, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, that is what I was gettting at.
It doesn't matter if they are Christian or not, they were lying and as a result people are dying. Lying is wrong and no one needs the Bible to teach them that.
I think that secularism teaches that lying for self worh is ok, or lying for profit, or self defense.

The Bible teaches us that it's always wrong and that it's immoral.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#573661 Aug 17, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
It was the King of Canaan that told Abraham to sacrifice his son to the Canaanite deity Baal. God stopped him and told him to sacrifice a sheep instead.
Then why does it say this?

Then God said,“Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#573663 Aug 17, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, that is what I was gettting at.
It doesn't matter if they are Christian or not, they were lying and as a result people are dying. Lying is wrong and no one needs the Bible to teach them that.
Sorry to be a PITA, but how do we know that scientifically ignorant power seeking, sexist and xenophbic lawyers-cum-politicians are lying when they declare that only foreigners can get HIV? I think some of them actually believed that nonsense - in the same way that I believe some Christians honestly thought that HIV was divine punishment for gay sex.

Yes, both are totally wrong - morally and biologically. But they're only lying if they know the difference between what they were describing and the biological reality of pathogens and human bodies.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#573664 Aug 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Please keep in mind, I don't believe in any of these stories.
Ok, so:
1. Your deity feels that it's ok to frighten men into honestly planning to sacrifice their own sons. And he doesn't mind that he made Abraham plan out murder, lie and forceably tie up his son, thereby doing violence to his son (and emotional trauma!).
2. Your deity feels that it can make everything right by "providing" Abraham with new children, when he's extremely old and likely unable to care for those newborns properly.
So children can be substituted freely. New children are payments for past crimes.
Oh, I'll remember these lessons when I refer to your group of religions as Abrahamic - no kidding! Hand in hand with repulsive deity.
If I was the kid, I'd spit on my cowardly father and his sadistic, evil deity, and never look back.
1. Based on reading and reading and re-reading that scripture, I can't see why you'd say that Abraham was frightened or that God was trying to frighten him.

2. Did you keep reading that chapter?

15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said,“I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”

It is a glorious example of prosperity through faith.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#573665 Aug 17, 2013
RiversideHick wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think anyone else did.
The sheep were afraid of the wolf.
Or possibly just afraid of being talked about.
I spent the next few weeks explaining it to everyone, telling the same story over and over again.
I was an outcast.
And I was happy about that.
Respect, RR. Good for you for sticking up for your morality.

The story is worrisome, though. It means those people didn't actually care about Christian morality so much as desiring to fit in. That weakens the "faith as spirituality" position some believers put forth and suggests a "religion as social cohesion" model instead.

Alternatively, it could be good news. If those people had some other shared venue, perhaps they could create a more positive gathering than the parasitic one you describe.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#573666 Aug 17, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
You are correct. I was wrong.
Not sure why God was talking to Abraham like that. It is pretty stupid.
<quoted text>
Kudos to you :)

And rats! I was hoping you had some backstory to share that I didn't know about. That would have been interesting - God fighting with other deities! Could be good stories!

"How God became the only God" ... nah. We need a better title.
Imhotep

Howey In The Hills, FL

#573667 Aug 17, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
I was wrong. I botched the story.
I am not perfect.
I love ya!

Need a bit of help?

For many centuries the Egyptians were present in Palestine, controlling the trade routes and importing the timber, olive oil and minerals not found in Egypt.

Archaeology has uncovered dramatic evidence of this pervasive Egyptian presence in 'Canaan'– yet nowhere does the Bible refer to Egyptians outside of Egypt.

It would spoil the story! Gasp!

How could Hebrews escape into the promised land if the Bible admitted Egyptians were running the show there too?

"Neither Moses, nor an enslaved Israel nor the event of this Exodus are recorded in any known ancient records outside the Bible ...
Although its climate has preserved the tiniest traces of ancient bedouin encampments and the sparse 5000-year-old villages of mine workers there is not a single trace of Moses or the Israelites."
– John Romer, Testament

But I'm sure you already knew this.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#573668 Aug 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to be a PITA, but how do we know that scientifically ignorant power seeking, sexist and xenophbic lawyers-cum-politicians are lying when they declare that only foreigners can get HIV? I think some of them actually believed that nonsense - in the same way that I believe some Christians honestly thought that HIV was divine punishment for gay sex.
Yes, both are totally wrong - morally and biologically. But they're only lying if they know the difference between what they were describing and the biological reality of pathogens and human bodies.
Fascinating.

I've been looking at your eyes all night long,'cuz I've never seen such dark eyes with so much light in them.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#573669 Aug 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to be a PITA, but how do we know that scientifically ignorant power seeking, sexist and xenophbic lawyers-cum-politicians are lying when they declare that only foreigners can get HIV? I think some of them actually believed that nonsense - in the same way that I believe some Christians honestly thought that HIV was divine punishment for gay sex.
Yes, both are totally wrong - morally and biologically. But they're only lying if they know the difference between what they were describing and the biological reality of pathogens and human bodies.
You're so beautiful that you made me forget my pickup line.

Oh ya...

If you were a booger I'd pick you first.

“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

Terra Australis

#573670 Aug 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The Japanese gov't use to inform our population that HIV was a foreigner's disease and that we couldn't catch it. Now we have a few thousand cases, likely with more hidden.
When people say bullshit stuff about disease, racism, homophobia, nationalism, whatever, it makes the disease spread more easily - makes the disease happy.
In the social sciences we label these societal constructions "social violence." Informing Christians that HIV is "God's retribuation" against sin is doing harm to both homosexuals and Christians - it is doing violence to them.
In these ways bigoted religious perspectives incite actual biological harm upon people.
I totally agree. That kind of bigotry only hurts people. Commonsense should focus on stopping new infections.

Our govt was sensible in controlling HIV spreading. They handed out free condoms and even set up needle exchanges.

I imagine people also said hysterical things, back in the days of the Plague.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#573671 Aug 17, 2013
RiversideHick wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Based on reading and reading and re-reading that scripture, I can't see why you'd say that Abraham was frightened or that God was trying to frighten him.
2. Did you keep reading that chapter?
15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said,“I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”
It is a glorious example of prosperity through faith.
Since you are willing to kill for me, I'll let you kill everybody else you don't like.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#573672 Aug 17, 2013
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I said THAT, but THAT does not translate to prayer and does not prove his claim that "many atheists" believed that was referring to prayer.
I agree Lacez...

If one hears voices from above...that voice would not be praying...not unless you think that voice is praying to you.(I don't think that is how it is supposed to work...God would not be praying to you). Even if you answer that voice does not mean that you are necessarily praying...could be that you are just having a conversation. You know that old saying...hearing voices is one thing...answering is another!

From my experience with prayer...it is usually one-sided...you pray...rarely would those prayers elicit an oral response. I think however that in some cases...people need answers...maybe they believe they heard a response. Does that make them crazy...I don't think so. Is it real or imagines??? I don't know but if believing that you received a response helps that person...then I am okay with that. Each of us has our own experiences.

Oh well...probably that is an entirely different conversation.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#573673 Aug 17, 2013
RiversideHick wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Based on reading and reading and re-reading that scripture, I can't see why you'd say that Abraham was frightened or that God was trying to frighten him.
What part about this line leaves Abraham's fear ambiguous?

"“Do not hurt him in any way, for now I know that you truly fear God."

That line is quite apt - the writers who put it in truly understood what it would take for a father to kill his own son. The fear of a deity - nothing could be worse, RR. If you believe in deities, than meeting yours and having it tell you to kill your own family - what could be more frightful than that?
2. Did you keep reading that chapter?
15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said,“I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”
It is a glorious example of prosperity through faith.
Not at all. It's a ridiculous dodge by a cowardly deity who's only concern was having Abraham fear it.

Instead of apology, God explains that Abraham's fear makes God happy.

"Oh, hey, now that I made you extremely traumatized, that you horrified your son to no end, I judge you worthy. Here's your reward!"

The cultural message is quite clear in this metaphorical story: "We, the Jews, will unify as no family can. We will be a stronger people, stronger than any family, and our religion will define us, is our identity as a people."

Religion truly is social cohesiveness between non-kin. It's reinforced constantly - as it has to be.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#573674 Aug 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Respect, RR. Good for you for sticking up for your morality.
The story is worrisome, though. It means those people didn't actually care about Christian morality so much as desiring to fit in. That weakens the "faith as spirituality" position some believers put forth and suggests a "religion as social cohesion" model instead.
Alternatively, it could be good news. If those people had some other shared venue, perhaps they could create a more positive gathering than the parasitic one you describe.
We'll never know.

I call those type of people "Sunday Christians".

Because it seems they only give a crap about it on Sunday morning.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#573676 Aug 17, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
Since you are willing to kill for me, I'll let you kill everybody else you don't like.
I'm not willing to kill for you, Aura.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#573678 Aug 17, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Words are the colors from the palette of our mind that we use to illustrate our thoughts to communicate verbal paintings to others so they can hear and see what we think.
The art of our soul...letters put together to form words...

Do you think that words take on meaning when they are spoken/written...or...when they are heard/read?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#573679 Aug 17, 2013
Lamchop wrote:
<quoted text>
People say all kinds of stuff.
So do I.
So do you.
I am not sure why Catholics say the things they do.
Oh, this one is easy!

Guilt.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#573681 Aug 17, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:

What part about this line leaves Abraham's fear ambiguous?
"“Do not hurt him in any way, for now I know that you truly fear God."
That line is quite apt - the writers who put it in truly understood what it would take for a father to kill his own son. The fear of a deity - nothing could be worse, RR. If you believe in deities, than meeting yours and having it tell you to kill your own family - what could be more frightful than that?
"Fear God" is not like fearing death, or afraid of the dark or anything like that.

It's more like a reverant awe and obedience.

I doubt that any Christian is afraid of God.

And according to Genesis 22, I don't see how you think Abraham was ever frightened.

Can yu explain that?
Not at all. It's a ridiculous dodge by a cowardly deity who's only concern was having Abraham fear it.
Instead of apology, God explains that Abraham's fear makes God happy.
"Oh, hey, now that I made you extremely traumatized, that you horrified your son to no end, I judge you worthy. Here's your reward!"
Oh, stop. Now you're adding 'terrorized' in the mix.

You can't just add to it at will and still remain credible.
The cultural message is quite clear in this metaphorical story: "We, the Jews, will unify as no family can. We will be a stronger people, stronger than any family, and our religion will define us, is our identity as a people."
Religion truly is social cohesiveness between non-kin. It's reinforced constantly - as it has to be.
Agreed. Nicely said.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#573682 Aug 17, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Comparing human situations to God is rather apples and oranges don't you think?
And yet you speak without even a twinge of doubt on behalf of your god as you did when you recently pontificated about its intentions regarding public prayer.

Don't think it hasn't been noticed:

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#573683 Aug 17, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>?? well of course I can believe anything I want. That's the point of "Faith" right? iyai!
So...the only reason you have "faith" is so you can believe anything you want?

Even this lowly heathen knows that there are specific guidelines to being a "Jesus Follower". If you want to believe anything you want...maybe you should just stick to being a plain ole Christian.

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