Why Should Jesus Love Me?
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#568434 Aug 6, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you don't think that hell is a place,just a feeling of resentment? It seems that you think that people like me will remain conscious after death, but not burn in fire. Is that correct?
Why would your god change the likes of those two and accept them, but not fix me up? Because he was not found before death? Isn't that a little bit his doing?
The god Christians describe varies from Christian to Christian, but never seems to get above pettiness. He doesn't give us much to go on except a book that anybody could have written, then exacts an eternal punishment without hope of forgiveness for not accepting its content.
Keep in mind the pitfalls that prevent people from accepting that book - its errors, its lack of anything that sounds like only a god could write it, and a world full of clues like fossils and human chromosome 2 to suggest that the book was not written by the author of the universe.
I reject all of that not just for lack of evidence, but because I understand that if our universe was built by and is governed by such a creature, everybody is in trouble, including the believers. What reason would there be to assume otherwise? You wouldn't trust a human being that did those things.
Hell is probably a place but the fire may be regret. Seperation from God. The Jews alone are a great proof of God. He would fix you up and wants to. Belief is required. Before higher learning and most all modern science it was said

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: hell, were likened unto sheep. The distance from the heart to the brain is approx. 18 inches that's how narrow a margin people miss heaven.
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#568435 Aug 6, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Jealous of sweet Karl?
I think im juxtaposed to that. Now when are you exploring the eastern seaboard?
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#568436 Aug 6, 2013
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#568438 Aug 6, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> Certainly. I want to add.
This goes beyond Christianity, too. Deity based, hive mind religion is a pox upon society and civilization. It pits humans against each other and themselves.
I'm sure that you're correct, since that describes at least Islam, too.

But there may be some religions that don't do damage, so I can't generalize my opinion to include all religion. I think the Jains have a good reputation.
Here For Now

Knoxville, TN

#568441 Aug 6, 2013
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that what you think non-Christians wish for you HFN? I can't imagine anyone hoping for anything bad to happen to you. I would hope that no one does. I have never wished for anything bad to happen to anyone...not even someone that I dislike.
I love ya my friend...so smile...cheer up...put a lampshade on your head and dance!
I truly am sorry if that is the way you feel.
Oh Annie, I don’t think you would ever wish that for me or anyone my friend. You are a lovely Lady. You care too much about others to want a thing like that.

No I don’t think all atheists would want it to happen. I wasn’t even think Atheist. I think the nastiness from them, maybe one more that the other is just who they are. I haven’t read enough from the other one to know much about her. No worried, karma or no karma, God is the one who decides what is or is not.

Mostly I was just being sarcastic and flippant, I figured since they were being that way I’d join in.

Annie you may not believe like I do but I like you. I like some of the others that don’t believe like I do too. I may not say so but I do. I don’t like the ones who come to harass and are so hateful though. I’m just not interested in debating or posting with that kind. That is not why I got on topix and stayed all this time. It’s why I scroll past and scan posts a lot of the time.

Thank you for letting me know that. I’m putting my lampshade on and going to either find a water puddle or grab a hose to make one to dance in. Maybe others will see what a good time I’m having and join in. I think everyone should ware a lampshade everywhere they go. It would be less easy to be hateful to someone if you had on one of those. I think they would be too busy laughing and having fun.

I love ya too girlfriend

Sorry if you thought I meant you

HFN
Here For Now

Knoxville, TN

#568442 Aug 6, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Got some stuff to do
Not many Christians posting on here any longer
it is what it is
And i didn't want it having anything to do with my other posts or exchanges. But now that I am heading out, I would ask that any believer that sees that say a prayer for my father. He had a mini-stroke yesterday. He is doing much better today. But there are other complications as well. As mini-strokes aren't a sign anything is getting better. Although I am hoping it was an isolated thing
In any event, I would appreciate it
Thanks
I will pray for your father, you and the family Skombolis. I hope for the best for you all my Brother and friend.
HFN

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#568443 Aug 6, 2013
why are atheist buttholes

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#568444 Aug 6, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if "redefine" is the right word. I suppose from your point of view it is. From my point of view, people who have spiritual experiences are always having monistic experiences, but they misinterpret them as dualistic.
I understand

(T) Peace

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#568445 Aug 6, 2013
scaritual wrote:
what that boils down to is I can experience a spiritual feeling about a myriad of things, and a Christian can perhaps experience the same feelings as I do, but, and only because I'm not Christian, many Christians will assert that what I've experienced isn't the same as what they experienced, since they have the "deity pak spirituality". That my experience was in some way, less.
I say let's take spirituality back. It isn't a Christian thing.
scaritual wrote:
Then if I experience something that the Christian does not approve of as "authentic spirituality", then it'll be discounted that what I felt wasn't spiritual at all, and that I'm kidding myself, I need the deity in order to experience
"real spirituality".
If anybody will be defined as spiritually inferior, let it be the adherents of the philosophy that preaches disconnection from the world that are recognized for their spiritual poverty. What is spiritual about belief in ghosts or spirits, or in looking forward to the time after death.
scaritual wrote:
You poor godlessbastard"
I don't want to be defined by them. I want to define myself, even if that means having to define the poor delusional bastards as well.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#568446 Aug 6, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
Morning;
I grabbed my first cup this am and headed outside tis a pretty day.
Watch those wild hummingbirds and the squirrels come in to hit the feeders. Must say they are interesting lil clowns too lol. They have there own pecking order. God created some very grand and wonderful things for mankind. And all people have to do is take the time and effort to appricate it all. Known as gifts and blessing from God. Have a good day.
Hello lil whispers :) I absolutely agree. It reminds me of the song count your blessings. When we look around us there is so much to be thankful for. Have a blessed day :)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#568449 Aug 6, 2013
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, there is no "redefinition," there is only the definition, according to you.
The definition of a spirit and spiritualism even proves you wrong, since one does not have to be religious at all to be spiritual.
I never said someone has to be religious

The question is, do you apply apply any of the definitions of "spiritual" to yourself and your experiences?

If you do then do

If you don't then you don't

But obviously anybody can say the word "spiritual" applies to them if they alter the definition of "spiritual"

I could say "atheist" or "skeptic" as it relates to spiritual applies to me if I alter the meaning of those two words to fit my own definition

But what would be the point of me arguing a word applies to me if I am not going to use its regular definition(s)?

Wouldn't it make more sense to use a word that isn't strictly limited to the spirit if you don't believe you have a spirit?

Transcendental

1. Philosophy
a. Concerned with the a priori or intuitive basis of knowledge as independent of experience.
b. Asserting a fundamental irrationality or supernatural element in experience.
2. Surpassing all others; superior.

Wouldn't a definition of that be more accurate? An experience surpassing all others? Something that is over and above our normal experiences?

Extraordinary:

1)Very unusual or remarkable.
2) Unusually great.

This type of experience is even broader and requires no belief in a spirit, the ecclesiastical, or incorporeal

This has gotten stretched out to unnecessary proportions as it is not those of faith saying you can NOT have spiritual experiences but rather questioning why someone would use a word to describe an experience defined in a way they do not accept?

It started off as a simple inquiry. Why use the word spiritual if one doesn't believe they had a spiritual experience..by definition? And it turned into some weird sort of ego-based claim to a word you would never use based on its definitions. Again, nobody is saying it isn't possible. It is simply asked do YOU believe its possible?

Take all the definitions of spiritual, transcendental, and extraordinary. If those definitions were placed before you, without showing what word they applied to, there is no way YOU pick "spiritual" IMO. Yet because now this is some sort of contest between sides, it is being argued you would

I really don't care either way any more. But the initial point seems lost so I am clarifying it

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#568451 Aug 6, 2013
simplyput wrote:
<quoted text>
Mam-- get your story straight before you try to tell me how to write my post--by the way--I did not say that to HFY. I can give you the page number and post if you can't get it correct.
I will write my post and opinions , the way I want to write my opinions---if you don't like my opinions, then scroll past them.
If you don't want responses to your opinions...then keep them to yourself. That is what this place is for.

No one told you how to write anything...I just responded to your post...that is what we do...one of us writes something...someone else responds...either agreeing...or disagreeing.

Maybe you are used to being able to voice your opinion and everyone just sit back and say nothing. Doesn't work that way. If you are going to find fault with non-Christians...then expect to hear the same in return.

If you don't like it...don't read it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#568452 Aug 6, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
What you believe by your preacher and chURCH leader Stephen Hawkins, is not science.
You don't get a vote.
trifecta1 wrote:
what vote? was their an election?? lol.
Yeah, and your vote (see above) was thrown out.

But don't feel bad. Nobody but the scientists in good standing in the appropriate fields has a vote. They disagree with you, therefore you are wrong. It would be like a clown car full of circus clowns arguing about the specs of a rocket engine with NASA. Those clowns would also be wrong.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#568453 Aug 6, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>You are missing the point. Nobody said atheists can't have spiritual experiences. It was pointed out some atheists have redefined the word "spiritual" because they are the ones who don't subscribe to any of its actual meanings. Which makes it strange then to choose that particular word. If you do believe you can experience something spiritual then nobody is claiming to be able to speak for what you can experience. The question simply is what are you claiming spiritual to be?
Consider it a rhetorical question as I really have zero interest in arguing the point. I'm simply clarifying nobody has claimed someone else can't experience spirituality. Just whether they are using a word that doesn't really mean what they are claiming when there are lots of words that would better describe the claim.
I believe that everyone...people of faith...people with no faith have their own definition of a spiritual experience based on their own experiences and perceptions of events. The emotional feelings of such a spiritual experience is probably similar...just different places/reasons for those experiences...also where/why/who that state of awe and euphoria originate from.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#568454 Aug 6, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, that was Triflecta. I guess he wants me to be a man for him. Kinda yuk, to be honest, but ok. I can wear a strap on for him.
Then I apologize to Simplyput for that one statement...the rest of it stands.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#568455 Aug 6, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Nobody said atheists can't have spiritual experiences.
Except the Christian bible, in its usual diffuse way:

"A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated." - I Corinthians 2:14
Skombolis wrote:
It was pointed out some atheists have redefined the word "spiritual" because they are the ones who don't subscribe to any of its actual meanings.
It's you that is apparently unaware of the word's full meaning, part of which we define. Playing ostrich doesn't change that.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#568456 Aug 6, 2013
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
have spiritual experiences, I probably interpret them differently than you.
Perhaps

But I am simply going by the dictionary

How do you normally define the words you apply to yourself? Do you go by the dictionary also? I would imagine for almost all words you do. When then in this case would you choose not to?

Some words have changed in meaning over time. The first word that comes to mind is "gay". It used to commonly mean "happy". Now it is commonly used to mean "homosexual"

But spiritual has not changed. The word is still used to mean exactly how it is defined by most people that use it. Of course 90% of the population believes in the supernatural or spiritual so of course they still apply the original definition

Like I said, I could apply the word skeptic to myself when it comes to faith. Technically i could do so using its actual definition

Skeptic:
1) A person inclined to question or doubt all accepted opinions.
2) A person who doubts the truth of Christianity and other religions; an atheist or agnostic.

I could go by definition one since i don't accept all accepted opinions. I don't even need to alter the definition. Yet would you consider me a skeptic when it comes to faith? Would anybody if I claimed that knowing how the word is used? And yet I can use its primary definition. An atheist wouldn't apply any of the 5 definitions of spiritual to himself. So I simply don't get why they would choose to use the word.

I have no personal feeling of ownership of any words nor do I feel religion as a whole does. I have no emotional investment to want to claim only certain people CAN use the word. With all the "us vs them" little scenarios that play out, I couldn't possibly care less about who uses a word. I simply was curious why someone would use that word if they didn't really feel it applied?
Here For Now

Knoxville, TN

#568457 Aug 6, 2013
Serah wrote:
Cheers ~ just wanted to share with those who care, that I have a scarf with me today that my Mum knitted for me about 20 years ago.... I can feel her energy often, and just gave the scarf a little pat and said "Hello Mum"!
There are those who think it is strange chatting with those who have passed over, and there are those who think it quite normal and comforting :)
Sometimes I think I am turning into my Mum ~ now using the perfume she used to use and gathering the things she gave me over the years to hold and to protect, and to pass on to my children and grandchildren. Perhaps I will make a Treasure Chest so that I can store my loved ones gifts of love that I have collected over many years....

---------

Hey Serah,
It’s nice that you can feel close to your Mum. I think making a treasure chest of gifts from loved one is good. Then you can go to it and look at the things and remember good times with them. I like having thing from loved one who are with Jesus now around. When I see them it makes me see them so clearly.
HFN

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#568458 Aug 6, 2013
Edit:

I would also say it could be argued how Skeptic is applied

Does it mean to doubt ALL accepted opinions as in EVERY? They doubt every single accepted opinions individually? If so, nobody is really a skeptic. Everybody accepts some universally accepted opinions

Or does it mean someone who doubts that ALL the accepted opinions as it in the totality of them? That there are some accepted opinions they do doubt

I would think most people fall into the latter category.

But we have two ways of using words in a society. One is the generally accepted definition in the dictionary, which people go by 99% plus of the time. And then every so often there are slight variances, such as to lie one only has to tell an untruth but it is generally accepted that it is done so deliberately. An obvious distinction made between being incorrect and lying

But by either method, imo I am no more a skeptic than an atheist is spiritual. And I see nothing that has changed over time to suggest otherwise. Given the percentage of the population that is atheist, the change could never be anything outside of a sub-set usage anyway. But even that I have never seen until a few people on Topix

This isn't about trying to take ownership of words. This is about using words in a way in which others will best understand us. Isn't that really the point of defining words in the first place?

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#568459 Aug 6, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the extreme prejudice of Christians for unbelievers. Don't you see the hatred embedded in such ideas? We're lacking something essential in their eyes - being spirit-filled - making us lower than they are on some imaginary spiritual food chain. That is like women to men who think that they are less than themselves, or people of color to people who think white skin imparts racial purity.
Yes...I am fully aware that there are those that feel that somehow that I am less than...lacking in morals, kindness, joy, happiness and human compassion because I do not believe as they do.

I am well aware that they believe me to be an enemy...dog vomit...angel of darkness...maybe even the anti-Christ! LOL
I resent the church that teaches them to think that way about anybody, especially me and people I love that also unbelievers. I REFUSE to just sit for that. I will declaim that church as emphatically as I can until it stops doing that, which I am sure will not be one day sooner that the day it loses the ability to do that. Is there much doubt about that?
And what fair person could possibly fault another for wanting to oppose an institution that does that to him and his? None. Christians do, but so what? They're the vectors for the church.
I understand.

My mother was Christian...she wasn't like that. I know that there are others that are the same. Maybe they are few in number...but for those few...I will stand up.

The rest of them...that is a different story.

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