Why Should Jesus Love Me?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#567143 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you go by the dictionary or do you make up your own definitions for words?
I am asking seriously
If its the latter then I will know any word you use might mean anything according to you.
But if its the former, than please show me what definition of spiritual would applies to an atheist
What I I decided "scientific" now means "hocus pocus". If i get enough people saying that, do you think the definition should change?
Is there some reason Cather would have for needing to hijack a word that doesn't apply to him? Would he use faith too and just claim that means something else?
Its silly HFY

It would be utter chaos and confusion if people just made up their own definitions to words
You don't understand the process of word formation, nor the relationship between dictionaries and communities of speakers.

From time to time, subsets of people have new concepts that need names. Sometimes they use old words. All that matters for effective communication to occur is for the people using that language to know the definition of any new word, or the new definition for any old word.

If the usage grows in popularity, lexicographers will eventually become aware of the addition, and add it to their dictionaries. Dictionaries lag the culture by about a decade, and won't contain these additions at first. If the usage is specialized enough and limited to a small enough group, it may never end up in a dictionary

Although people try at times, they are unsuccessful at impeding this process or limiting the way other people use language by pointing to a dictionary and declaring that a word cannot be used the way it is being used.

That is because dictionaries are what are called descriptive, nor prescriptive, that is, they describe how people are using the word, not how they are allowed to.

Atheists have had no voice until recently. The dominant Christian culture had determined what words like atheist and spiritual mean for most people. We have have frequently given our perspective on the matter in the form of definitions that work for us, and we use the words that way.

I haven't bothered to check if my usage of the word "spiritual appears in any dictionaries or not. It is irrelevant. I use the word anyway, and people like me generally know what I mean, and when they don't, I give them my definition. I would be happy to tell you or anybody that asks just what I mean by atheist, Christian, religion, faith, belief, and spiritual in the context of these discussions.

It's unimportant that you approve.
Red Apples

Troy, MI

#567144 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
1) Different people are granted different gifts by the Spirit. So different people may be able to do different things

ians wrote:
That's the bait and switch. The bible doesn't say anything about some people getting less fruit of the spirit than others. Here is what it says:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." - Galatians 5:22-23

Red Apples wrote:
Gifts of the Spirit (which Skom was talking about) and fruits of the Spirit are two different things deceived one. Skom is correct in saying that quote: "Different people are granted different gifts by the Spirit".

1st Corinthians 12:4-10.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567145 Aug 3, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't understand the process of word formation, nor the relationship between dictionaries and communities of speakers.
From time to time, subsets of people have new concepts that need names. Sometimes they use old words. All that matters for effective communication to occur is for the people using that language to know the definition of any new word, or the new definition for any old word.
If the usage grows in popularity, lexicographers will eventually become aware of the addition, and add it to their dictionaries. Dictionaries lag the culture by about a decade, and won't contain these additions at first. If the usage is specialized enough and limited to a small enough group, it may never end up in a dictionary
Although people try at times, they are unsuccessful at impeding this process or limiting the way other people use language by pointing to a dictionary and declaring that a word cannot be used the way it is being used.
That is because dictionaries are what are called descriptive, nor prescriptive, that is, they describe how people are using the word, not how they are allowed to.
Atheists have had no voice until recently. The dominant Christian culture had determined what words like atheist and spiritual mean for most people. We have have frequently given our perspective on the matter in the form of definitions that work for us, and we use the words that way.
I haven't bothered to check if my usage of the word "spiritual appears in any dictionaries or not. It is irrelevant. I use the word anyway, and people like me generally know what I mean, and when they don't, I give them my definition. I would be happy to tell you or anybody that asks just what I mean by atheist, Christian, religion, faith, belief, and spiritual in the context of these discussions.
It's unimportant that you approve.
Just because less than 1% of the population decides its going to make up a new definition for a word doesn't make it actually change

It makes less than 1% of the population look like idiots

People in a society go by a set of definitions because that is how people are able to communicate and know what each other is saying and means.

What a goofy thing to do. Is that some type of moral victory for you guys? We are going to take the word spiritual and use it even though nothing in applies to us at all!

Good for you chuckles. You got 5 people on the internet to pretend a word means something it didn't. What's your next major coup against Christianity going to be? LOL

Oh, I saw you skipped over all the posts proving your latest lies. We just gonna pretend like they don't exist like is done with all the others? Cool. Just wanted to know what the plan was. I knew it was either denial or avoid:)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567146 Aug 3, 2013
Red Apples wrote:
Skombolis wrote:
1) Different people are granted different gifts by the Spirit. So different people may be able to do different things
ians wrote:
That's the bait and switch. The bible doesn't say anything about some people getting less fruit of the spirit than others. Here is what it says:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." - Galatians 5:22-23
Red Apples wrote:
Gifts of the Spirit (which Skom was talking about) and fruits of the Spirit are two different things deceived one. Skom is correct in saying that quote: "Different people are granted different gifts by the Spirit".
1st Corinthians 12:4-10.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
I don't even bother any more with giving him the verses.

He never knew the Bible at all when he was a Christian. He has tried to learn bits and pieces of it since leaving so he can argue against it but his knowledge of the Bible is terrible. Yet to stay lock-step with other atheists he claims he knows the Bible better than most Christians. Getting different gifts is one of the basic tenants of our relationship with the Spirit. He didn't quit the faith over anything to do with the faith or the Bible. He simply saw some of his money would go to help people and decided screw
that

And now he comes here looking to atheist and start fights

Oh, yeah from now on atheist on Topix means troll. It doesn't apply to everyone and it makes zero sense I would need to hijack a word for no reason when there are plenty of words i could use that would apply. But this is how Internet tidal waves are formed in people's minds. You do weird things that make no sense like get 5 people to start using a word incorrectly:)

I think next I am going to redefine empirical, proof, and science:)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567147 Aug 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. That's why I referred RR to Wordsworth's poetry.
Thanks.
I find it amazing that someone cannot think beyond their own religion, and just assume other people can't have spiritual experiences.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567148 Aug 3, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>mine differs from yours BOO!!! spend the night with me and lets just do it~~~~~~!
Oh!!!

<waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa!>

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567149 Aug 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, very spiritual.
And no gods required.
A lawyer that makes up his own definitions for words and doesn't use the dictionary, that is an interesting approach

Although at least you are consistent. You make up your own legal terms as well

You probably changed the definition of "guilty" to convince yourself you actually are winning cases

~snicker

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567150 Aug 3, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't understand the process of word formation, nor the relationship between dictionaries and communities of speakers.
From time to time, subsets of people have new concepts that need names. Sometimes they use old words. All that matters for effective communication to occur is for the people using that language to know the definition of any new word, or the new definition for any old word.
If the usage grows in popularity, lexicographers will eventually become aware of the addition, and add it to their dictionaries. Dictionaries lag the culture by about a decade, and won't contain these additions at first. If the usage is specialized enough and limited to a small enough group, it may never end up in a dictionary
Although people try at times, they are unsuccessful at impeding this process or limiting the way other people use language by pointing to a dictionary and declaring that a word cannot be used the way it is being used.
That is because dictionaries are what are called descriptive, nor prescriptive, that is, they describe how people are using the word, not how they are allowed to.
Atheists have had no voice until recently. The dominant Christian culture had determined what words like atheist and spiritual mean for most people. We have have frequently given our perspective on the matter in the form of definitions that work for us, and we use the words that way.
I haven't bothered to check if my usage of the word "spiritual appears in any dictionaries or not. It is irrelevant. I use the word anyway, and people like me generally know what I mean, and when they don't, I give them my definition. I would be happy to tell you or anybody that asks just what I mean by atheist, Christian, religion, faith, belief, and spiritual in the context of these discussions.
It's unimportant that you approve.
Brilliant.

It's also unimportant if he can't find it in a dictionary.

The fact remains that we atheists and nonbelievers have spiritual experiences that are not connected to deities or imagined beings in any way.

For me, it's quite silly to think about my spirituality as connected to a deity - I can't imagine making such a statement as it would be erroneous. And I know it's not silly for Christians to think likewise, for they believe they are in touch with a "higher power" and experience it as is.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567151 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The dictionary does not define Christianity as the sole source of spirituality, Skom.
I never siad it did. It defines spiritual as what spiritual is. That's what dictionaries do. They define words.Its how a society communicates with one another
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The dictionary is not even the beginning of knowledge, Skom.
Its isn't the end-all but certainly to even begin to achieve knowledge, someone has to know what the words they are reading means. That what a dictionary is for
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I was quite clear - if you are going to discuss spirituality, we have to use precise definitions.
Precise definitions that you make up? And why not use words that already mean what they do for that?
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You have, in the past, posted no less than 5 differing definitions for words in a discussion. That won't do. If you and I are going to discuss spirituality as it means to atheists and Christians and non-Christian believers of other religions, we have to be exacting in how we use the term "spirituality." No ambiguity.
<quoted text>
What is more precise than posting every definition given in the dictionary and asking specifically which one you are going by?
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I already provided a definition - that which is non-mundane, a feeling of awe at existence and our place in it, calmness, being at one with our surroundings, a separation of mind and body such that the mind observes, etc.
See, you already had a bunch of words you could have used without changing the meaning of spirituality
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
We're not making up definitions here. Your understanding of the term is highly circumscribed and religious biased.
??

If going by your own definition that you and 4 other people on the internet decided to use isn't making up a definition even though it isn't defined like that in the dictionary at all, could you please tell me what would be making up a definition of a word?

Any example will be fine

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#567152 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because less than 1% of the population decides its going to make up a new definition for a word doesn't make it actually change
It makes less than 1% of the population look like idiots
People in a society go by a set of definitions because that is how people are able to communicate and know what each other is saying and means.
What a goofy thing to do. Is that some type of moral victory for you guys? We are going to take the word spiritual and use it even though nothing in applies to us at all!
Good for you chuckles. You got 5 people on the internet to pretend a word means something it didn't. What's your next major coup against Christianity going to be? LOL
Oh, I saw you skipped over all the posts proving your latest lies. We just gonna pretend like they don't exist like is done with all the others? Cool. Just wanted to know what the plan was. I knew it was either denial or avoid:)
LOL........

I see their all ganging up on you now. You have way more patience for their games then i do Skom. Good job in pointing out their deflections and lies.........

How are the Lions gonna do this year? I'm thinking it should be a pretty competitive division this year. The Vikings could drop out early depending on Ponder. I really dont think he's the answer at QB for them, but as long as AP can stay healthy they have a good shot at winning some games.........

Have a good weekend.........

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567153 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Brilliant.
It's also unimportant if he can't find it in a dictionary.
.
It empirical is absolutelybthat you science the proof and put tissue tomatoes in the atmosphere when chairing to carpet on Topix

(I am making up all new definitions for words)

:)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567154 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it amazing that someone cannot think beyond their own religion, and just assume other people can't have spiritual experiences.
You could....if you actually believed in the supernatural

By you reject the supernatural yet still want to use a word that is defined as supernatural

It has nothing to do with Christianity specifically.

You simply are using a word incorrectly

That four other people are doing it to doesn't change that fact

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567155 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because less than 1% of the population decides its going to make up a new definition for a word doesn't make it actually change
It makes less than 1% of the population look like idiots
What a ridiculous comment. So all subcultures are just made of idiots?

All subcultures - from hockey moms to surfers have their own lingo.
People in a society go by a set of definitions because that is how people are able to communicate and know what each other is saying and means.
What a goofy thing to do. Is that some type of moral victory for you guys? We are going to take the word spiritual and use it even though nothing in applies to us at all!
Good for you chuckles. You got 5 people on the internet to pretend a word means something it didn't. What's your next major coup against Christianity going to be? LOL
No, Skom, by your own words, you don't understand what spirituality is.

You're basing it entirely on your own experiences and then demanding that the rest of the world shares them. I can't imagine a more simplistic way of imaging humanity. Sorry, baby, but not everyone shares your religion and your language - and your particular reverence of the dictionary, from which you seem to draw ideas.

- Christians such as yourself have Christian spiritual experiences
- Buddhists have Buddhist spiritual experiences
- Hindus have Hindi spiritual experiences
- And atheists have non-deity, non-religious based spiritual experiences
- all of the above experiences differ. They are united only by their non-mundane, non-ordinary qualities. However, their interpretation, understand, conception and experience differ, sometimes dramatically.

We're talking about behavior. Let's take a look at what basic psychology has to say:

"Spirituality means something different to everyone. For some, it's about participating in organized religion: going to church, synagogue, a mosque, etc. For others, it's more personal: Some people get in touch with their spiritual side through private prayer, yoga, meditation, quiet reflection, or even long walks."

from Pop Psych: http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/spiritu...

This book talks about the evolution of brain areas involved in spiritual experience, and their importance in culture. You'll note it separates religious and spiritual experiences into separate categories:

http://books.google.co.jp/books...

Anthropology uses a broader definition, since it deals with humanity cross-culturally. Spirituality, in the anthropological sense, would refer to how non-mundane experiences are culturally constructed and understood. This is particularly pertinent in your case, since you are a Christian who seems to think only Christians can have spirituality.

The point is, what you "know" as spiritual has been taught to you, via your religion. Your spiritual experiences are *only* Christian because you have learned to interpret, understand and experience them thusly.

Other human groups learn to interpret, understand and experience their spirituality very differently than you. Other human groups are not trying to be you, they don't share your point of view or your framework for understanding the world around you.

It's that simple.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567156 Aug 3, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL........
I see their all ganging up on you now. You have way more patience for their games then i do Skom. Good job in pointing out their deflections and lies.........
Its like having 4 kindergarteners trying to beat up an adult instead of one. It really doesn't make a whole lot of difference

~snicker
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
How are the Lions gonna do this year? I'm thinking it should be a pretty competitive division this year. The Vikings could drop out early depending on Ponder. I really dont think he's the answer at QB for them, but as long as AP can stay healthy they have a good shot at winning some games.........
Have a good weekend.........
Well, I am a die-hard Lions fan which means every year I am convinced they have finally got it right and have turned the corner. I am not about to change now! LOL

But there have been years more than others where it really does feel justified. I think it all rides on Stafford. As he goes, so do the Lions. If he has a good year, I think the rest of the team should be good enough now to compliment him. They should be a 10-6 this year even with a hard schedule

I can't wait for football to start

Have a good weekend as well

(T) Peace

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567157 Aug 3, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be easier to not breathe at all but I do that too.
Where should I start? A 7 year old not praying in school leads adults to violent crime?
Are you fuckinserious? That's my question, rephrased.
Yes I'm serious.

It has happened and is still happening.

I believe that Satan planted the seed back in '62.

It takes time for seeds to grow.....

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567158 Aug 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you were divorced because the U.S. has turned its back on your god?
Statically speaking, yes.

People used to not get divorced as often as we do today. "Til death do us part" used to mean something.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567159 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
What a ridiculous comment. So all subcultures are just made of idiots?
All subcultures - from hockey moms to surfers have their own lingo.
<quoted text>
No, Skom, by your own words, you don't understand what spirituality is.
You're basing it entirely on your own experiences and then demanding that the rest of the world shares them. I can't imagine a more simplistic way of imaging humanity. Sorry, baby, but not everyone shares your religion and your language - and your particular reverence of the dictionary, from which you seem to draw ideas.
- Christians such as yourself have Christian spiritual experiences
- Buddhists have Buddhist spiritual experiences
- Hindus have Hindi spiritual experiences
- And atheists have non-deity, non-religious based spiritual experiences
- all of the above experiences differ. They are united only by their non-mundane, non-ordinary qualities. However, their interpretation, understand, conception and experience differ, sometimes dramatically.
We're talking about behavior. Let's take a look at what basic psychology has to say:
"Spirituality means something different to everyone. For some, it's about participating in organized religion: going to church, synagogue, a mosque, etc. For others, it's more personal: Some people get in touch with their spiritual side through private prayer, yoga, meditation, quiet reflection, or even long walks."
from Pop Psych: http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/spiritu...
This book talks about the evolution of brain areas involved in spiritual experience, and their importance in culture. You'll note it separates religious and spiritual experiences into separate categories:
http://books.google.co.jp/books...
Anthropology uses a broader definition, since it deals with humanity cross-culturally. Spirituality, in the anthropological sense, would refer to how non-mundane experiences are culturally constructed and understood. This is particularly pertinent in your case, since you are a Christian who seems to think only Christians can have spirituality.
The point is, what you "know" as spiritual has been taught to you, via your religion. Your spiritual experiences are *only* Christian because you have learned to interpret, understand and experience them thusly.
Other human groups learn to interpret, understand and experience their spirituality very differently than you. Other human groups are not trying to be you, they don't share your point of view or your framework for understanding the world around you.
It's that simple.
I'm basing the definitions of words off the dictionary

That is what is that simple

I understand you and a few buddies have decided to use it incorrectly and changed the meaning of the word within your internet group.

I simply think it is silly and that it wasn't even necessary

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567160 Aug 3, 2013
JuicyLullz wrote:

Yeah you're wrong and Mr Charrington already explained this phenomenon to you.
Incidentally, I had 3 planned children, in marriage to a good widdle christian and that didn't stop him cheating, getting other women pregnant and abandoning his family. There are many single mothers in similar circumstances all over the world. It's not just 'godless' bed hopping.
I have theories on this but can't be bothered. Too much typing. A person doesn't have to be secular to be completely lacking in morals.
Still it's better than staying in an abusive loveless marriage just because some half breed el decided to oppress women 6000 years ago.
It sounds like you & your ex are products of the decline in America I've been talking about.

I am, too.

We all are.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567161 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
I never siad it did. It defines spiritual as what spiritual is. That's what dictionaries do. They define words.Its how a society communicates with one another
Words change throughout history. Dictionaries struggle to record this change.
Its isn't the end-all but certainly to even begin to achieve knowledge, someone has to know what the words they are reading means. That what a dictionary is for
Only if you're writing a high school paper.
Precise definitions that you make up? And why not use words that already mean what they do for that?
I already explained this. If we are to talk about spirituality, we have to define it precisely. If you cannot understand what I'm talking about, you can't comment on my claims.
What is more precise than posting every definition given in the dictionary and asking specifically which one you are going by?
Me telling you exactly what I mean - as I did when I defined how I am using the word "spirituality."

Skom, you can't be so simple as to think that human experiences are entirely encapsulated by outdated dictionaries. That's like believing that direct translations exist across languages.
See, you already had a bunch of words you could have used without changing the meaning of spirituality
Huh? I quite clearly defined it in a previous post. If you can't accept that definition, or attempt to understand what I mean, we can't have a discussion.

This is how discussions work - I clarify what I'm talking about and we discuss it. If you can't follow that, oh well.
If going by your own definition that you and 4 other people on the internet decided to use isn't making up a definition even though it isn't defined like that in the dictionary at all, could you please tell me what would be making up a definition of a word?
Any example will be fine
Huh?

Two questions:

Do you want to discuss how dictionaries can be used and what they're for?

Or do you want to discuss how atheists have spiritual experiences?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567162 Aug 3, 2013
JuicyLullz wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it god's guidance that inspires you to chat up women online? Does your wife know?
"Some women prefer brain and c ck to just c ck."
- ME
What do you mean by chatting up women online?

Am I cheating on my wife or something?

What are you getting at?

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