Why Should Jesus Love Me?

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567158 Aug 3, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you were divorced because the U.S. has turned its back on your god?
Statically speaking, yes.

People used to not get divorced as often as we do today. "Til death do us part" used to mean something.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567159 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
What a ridiculous comment. So all subcultures are just made of idiots?
All subcultures - from hockey moms to surfers have their own lingo.
<quoted text>
No, Skom, by your own words, you don't understand what spirituality is.
You're basing it entirely on your own experiences and then demanding that the rest of the world shares them. I can't imagine a more simplistic way of imaging humanity. Sorry, baby, but not everyone shares your religion and your language - and your particular reverence of the dictionary, from which you seem to draw ideas.
- Christians such as yourself have Christian spiritual experiences
- Buddhists have Buddhist spiritual experiences
- Hindus have Hindi spiritual experiences
- And atheists have non-deity, non-religious based spiritual experiences
- all of the above experiences differ. They are united only by their non-mundane, non-ordinary qualities. However, their interpretation, understand, conception and experience differ, sometimes dramatically.
We're talking about behavior. Let's take a look at what basic psychology has to say:
"Spirituality means something different to everyone. For some, it's about participating in organized religion: going to church, synagogue, a mosque, etc. For others, it's more personal: Some people get in touch with their spiritual side through private prayer, yoga, meditation, quiet reflection, or even long walks."
from Pop Psych: http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/spiritu...
This book talks about the evolution of brain areas involved in spiritual experience, and their importance in culture. You'll note it separates religious and spiritual experiences into separate categories:
http://books.google.co.jp/books...
Anthropology uses a broader definition, since it deals with humanity cross-culturally. Spirituality, in the anthropological sense, would refer to how non-mundane experiences are culturally constructed and understood. This is particularly pertinent in your case, since you are a Christian who seems to think only Christians can have spirituality.
The point is, what you "know" as spiritual has been taught to you, via your religion. Your spiritual experiences are *only* Christian because you have learned to interpret, understand and experience them thusly.
Other human groups learn to interpret, understand and experience their spirituality very differently than you. Other human groups are not trying to be you, they don't share your point of view or your framework for understanding the world around you.
It's that simple.
I'm basing the definitions of words off the dictionary

That is what is that simple

I understand you and a few buddies have decided to use it incorrectly and changed the meaning of the word within your internet group.

I simply think it is silly and that it wasn't even necessary

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567160 Aug 3, 2013
JuicyLullz wrote:

Yeah you're wrong and Mr Charrington already explained this phenomenon to you.
Incidentally, I had 3 planned children, in marriage to a good widdle christian and that didn't stop him cheating, getting other women pregnant and abandoning his family. There are many single mothers in similar circumstances all over the world. It's not just 'godless' bed hopping.
I have theories on this but can't be bothered. Too much typing. A person doesn't have to be secular to be completely lacking in morals.
Still it's better than staying in an abusive loveless marriage just because some half breed el decided to oppress women 6000 years ago.
It sounds like you & your ex are products of the decline in America I've been talking about.

I am, too.

We all are.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567161 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
I never siad it did. It defines spiritual as what spiritual is. That's what dictionaries do. They define words.Its how a society communicates with one another
Words change throughout history. Dictionaries struggle to record this change.
Its isn't the end-all but certainly to even begin to achieve knowledge, someone has to know what the words they are reading means. That what a dictionary is for
Only if you're writing a high school paper.
Precise definitions that you make up? And why not use words that already mean what they do for that?
I already explained this. If we are to talk about spirituality, we have to define it precisely. If you cannot understand what I'm talking about, you can't comment on my claims.
What is more precise than posting every definition given in the dictionary and asking specifically which one you are going by?
Me telling you exactly what I mean - as I did when I defined how I am using the word "spirituality."

Skom, you can't be so simple as to think that human experiences are entirely encapsulated by outdated dictionaries. That's like believing that direct translations exist across languages.
See, you already had a bunch of words you could have used without changing the meaning of spirituality
Huh? I quite clearly defined it in a previous post. If you can't accept that definition, or attempt to understand what I mean, we can't have a discussion.

This is how discussions work - I clarify what I'm talking about and we discuss it. If you can't follow that, oh well.
If going by your own definition that you and 4 other people on the internet decided to use isn't making up a definition even though it isn't defined like that in the dictionary at all, could you please tell me what would be making up a definition of a word?
Any example will be fine
Huh?

Two questions:

Do you want to discuss how dictionaries can be used and what they're for?

Or do you want to discuss how atheists have spiritual experiences?

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567162 Aug 3, 2013
JuicyLullz wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it god's guidance that inspires you to chat up women online? Does your wife know?
"Some women prefer brain and c ck to just c ck."
- ME
What do you mean by chatting up women online?

Am I cheating on my wife or something?

What are you getting at?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567163 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
It empirical is absolutelybthat you science the proof and put tissue tomatoes in the atmosphere when chairing to carpet on Topix
(I am making up all new definitions for words)
:)
You are not using words in any meaningful way.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567164 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
I find it amazing that someone cannot think beyond their own religion, and just assume other people can't have spiritual experiences.
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
You could....if you actually believed in the supernatural
By you reject the supernatural yet still want to use a word that is defined as supernatural
Wow - so your claim here is that people who reject the supernatural cannot have human experiences?
It has nothing to do with Christianity specifically.
You simply are using a word incorrectly
That four other people are doing it to doesn't change that fact
No. You don't seem to understand:

1. how dictionaries are used
2. how to conceptualize human experience
3. how people's experience cannot be encapsulated by your personal understanding of words
4. how investigation, discussion and philosophy of human experience is carried out

But, whatever. If you can't have this discussion, no worries. Not a my problem thing.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#567165 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
What a ridiculous comment. So all subcultures are just made of idiots?
All subcultures - from hockey moms to surfers have their own lingo.
<edited>
It's that simple.
A instance of how words have evolved in meaning, is the English word Girl. Which 1000 years ago meant a boy or girl denoted by a prefix of nave girl or gay girl nave meaning boy, which also shows how the word gay changed. Just some trivia there. ALSO

The only thing supernatural, is the phenomenal accelerated density of those who say there is a supernatural, but cannot demonstrate one. AND btw hello today :)

My 2 cents for the moment.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567166 Aug 3, 2013
AnnieJ wrote:

Birth rates have risen in unmarried women in their 20's and 30's. At the same time they are declining among our teenagers.
Are they?
Perhaps our work to inform teenagers about birth control have finally started making a difference.
I hope so.
Among older women I don't think that it is as much one night stands as it is women have begun to feel that they can raise children on their own.
But they shouldn't think that way. A child needs a mother and a father.
RR...think back...when you were in school...the teacher said a prayer...did you listen to her...did you close your eyes...did you pray along with her...or did you peek at the little girl sitting across the aisle?
I'm too young for that, school prayer was stopped in 1962, darlin.
Children are more likely to listen to prayer said at home by their mom or dad than they are sitting in a classroom with a bunch of other silly little goof offs. I have worked at schools...they take every chance to goof off when the teacher isn't looking. Her eyes closed saying a prayer would be the perfect time for them to make their move.
Did you work with school kids in the 40's & 50's? In 1817?

By the time you started working with school kids, several generations of non-praying kids was already underway. The change already started.
Why do you want the schools to do what the parents should be doing if they want their children to start the day with prayer?
I never said that.
Are parents too busy?
Only bad parents are too busy to raise their children.
Are they not morning people?
O_o
Schools are to teach...parents are for giving spiritual guidance.
That's the mentality we all have now. But I think it's been bad for America. The statistics back me up on that.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567167 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Words change throughout history. Dictionaries struggle to record this change.
<quoted text>
Only if you're writing a high school paper.
<quoted text>
I already explained this. If we are to talk about spirituality, we have to define it precisely. If you cannot understand what I'm talking about, you can't comment on my claims.
<quoted text>
Me telling you exactly what I mean - as I did when I defined how I am using the word "spirituality."
Skom, you can't be so simple as to think that human experiences are entirely encapsulated by outdated dictionaries. That's like believing that direct translations exist across languages.
<quoted text>
Huh? I quite clearly defined it in a previous post. If you can't accept that definition, or attempt to understand what I mean, we can't have a discussion.
This is how discussions work - I clarify what I'm talking about and we discuss it. If you can't follow that, oh well.
<quoted text>
Huh?
Two questions:
Do you want to discuss how dictionaries can be used and what they're for?
Or do you want to discuss how atheists have spiritual experiences?
Sigh

This word didn't change over time

You and 4 other other people on the internet simply have decided to use it incorrectly

Spiritual still means exactly what is has always meant

You have plenty of words already in the English language to explain extraordinary events that aren't supernatural

Hey, there's one example right there! But there are plenty of ways to describe it without changing the meaning of an already existing word. Its not like you are been cut off from experiences by the dictionary. But you don't believe in the supernatural so why would you use a word that is based on the supernatural to describe your experience?

On now level was this change needed or logical. But I really don't care how you guys want to define it among yourselves. But that doesn't actually change anything
simplyput

Aurora, CO

#567168 Aug 3, 2013
JuicyLullz wrote:
<quoted text>
I've had a lovely day in paradise, thank you LeLe, that might be the nicest thing you've ever said to me in this sock. Thank you. I agree, this is too funny, hilarious even :D
Looking back--

You and this LE LE person sound a lot alike---forever changing--you
are a Christian, then an atheist, then a man, then a woman, talk like a sailor with your vulgar language---you LIKE the posters that agree with you--talk bad about posters that DON"T agree with you---grab hold of a poster that dislikes the same one you don't like or says the same thing about that poster you have.

This is not good qualities to have---no one can TRUST this kind of a person.

(hopefully, you two are not this way in real life)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567169 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm basing the definitions of words off the dictionary
That is what is that simple
I understand you and a few buddies have decided to use it incorrectly and changed the meaning of the word within your internet group.
I simply think it is silly and that it wasn't even necessary
So you downplayed the entire fields of psychology and anthropology in favor of a dictionary.

I see this kind of intellectual immaturity a lot in high school students when they come into my anthro classes for the first time. They often write as if the dictionary has the final say on human experience.

It's immature thinking - not critical at all, not expansive, not comprehensive. It means you're unable to reason "how does this person experience X? How can we express how this person feels when our language does a poor job describing it?"

Rather, you think "the dictionary defines this word as P, therefore only P exists."

Nevermind. If you're not up to this level of thinking, that's not my problem. We won't bother to have a serious conversation.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567170 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Wow - so your claim here is that people who reject the supernatural cannot have human experiences?
<quoted text>
No, I am saying that wouldn't believe they have had a supernatural experience
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
No. You don't seem to understand:
1. how dictionaries are used
You GOTTA be kidding right?
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
2. how to conceptualize human experience
3. how people's experience cannot be encapsulated by your personal understanding of words
4. how investigation, discussion and philosophy of human experience is carried out
But, whatever. If you can't have this discussion, no worries. Not a my problem thing.
Its not much of a discussion. You and four people decided to change the meaning of a word among yourselves and think somehow the rest of the world should recognize that and go along with it and agree with your new definition.

Can you imagine the chaos if 5 people could change the meaning of a word?

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567171 Aug 3, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
Looks like I'll have to contact species 8472.
Anybody who gets that reference without looking it up is a nerd.
HA HA !!

Need here.

How you gonna contact them?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567172 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Sigh
This word didn't change over time
You and 4 other other people on the internet simply have decided to use it incorrectly
Spiritual still means exactly what is has always meant
You have plenty of words already in the English language to explain extraordinary events that aren't supernatural
Hey, there's one example right there! But there are plenty of ways to describe it without changing the meaning of an already existing word. Its not like you are been cut off from experiences by the dictionary. But you don't believe in the supernatural so why would you use a word that is based on the supernatural to describe your experience?
On now level was this change needed or logical. But I really don't care how you guys want to define it among yourselves. But that doesn't actually change anything
So you don't actually want to discuss how atheists experience spirituality, but wish to discuss the finer points of whether dictionaries can be used to describe every exact human experience.

You seem to believe that all English-speaking cultures have English-dictionary experiences.

Nevermind, Skom, you're just not up to the discussion. Go play with your dictionaries.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#567173 Aug 3, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So you downplayed the entire fields of psychology and anthropology in favor of a dictionary.
I see this kind of intellectual immaturity a lot in high school students when they come into my anthro classes for the first time. They often write as if the dictionary has the final say on human experience.
It's immature thinking - not critical at all, not expansive, not comprehensive. It means you're unable to reason "how does this person experience X? How can we express how this person feels when our language does a poor job describing it?"
Rather, you think "the dictionary defines this word as P, therefore only P exists."
Nevermind. If you're not up to this level of thinking, that's not my problem. We won't bother to have a serious conversation.
i didn't downplay anything

The simnply am not allowing you to change the subject

And the subject here is whether or not you have made up your own definition for a word

You have

And you know it

It is why you claim you haven't but won't give me an example of what making up a definition of a word would be. because anything you say would be exactly what you have done

I am arguing with someone trying to tell me dictionaries don't define words

Topix...gotta love it

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#567174 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Its like having 4 kindergarteners trying to beat up an adult instead of one. It really doesn't make a whole lot of difference
~snicker
LOL......Ya but it just gets so old. You state the obvious and they just deny it...... More power to you though......
<quoted text>
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I am a die-hard Lions fan which means every year I am convinced they have finally got it right and have turned the corner. I am not about to change now! LOL
But there have been years more than others where it really does feel justified. I think it all rides on Stafford. As he goes, so do the Lions. If he has a good year, I think the rest of the team should be good enough now to compliment him. They should be a 10-6 this year even with a hard schedule
I can't wait for football to start
Have a good weekend as well
(T) Peace
Well its just around the corner now. I think the Lions drafted a good running back if I'm not mistaken (and I could be mistaken, I'm not an atheist so I can make mistakes). That should help Stafford out if they can develop a running game this year. It should be a fun year in the Norris division.........

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567175 Aug 3, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Let's play "let's ask RR"!

RR, I have spiritual experiences. They aren't like yours, I'm not a Christian. They're not based on supernatural anything, because I do not experience supernatural events.

However, I have experiences that feel non-mundane, non-physical. They are entirely physical, they are brain states. But they certainly don't feel that way, the same way sex doesn't feel like gene transfer. And I deeply, deeply enjoy my spirituality.

So, RR, do I really have spiritual experiences or am I wrong because the dictionary doesn't define spiritual in the same way that I use it.

Please keep in mind, I have a long background in the social sciences going from neuroscience, behavioral pharmacology, primatology to evolutionary behavior, cultural, medical and biocultural anthropology. So I am well versed in the variety of human experiences, cross culturally, and used to talking about them in both English and Japanese, despite that most human experiences take place in neither language, with no referents to either.

So, me, atheist. Do I have spiritual experiences?

(Skom says "no" and his reasoning? It's not in the dictionary)

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#567176 Aug 3, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
You get the impression that Wordsworth was a bit of a dreamer, from reading that poem. A lot of creative people are.
Beautiful flowers make me feel very spiritual, sometimes.
Wordsworth lived a very long life, into his 90s i believe.

The sad thing, as I see it, is that in his later years he became quite religious, and his poetry lost all its power.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567177 Aug 3, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
i didn't downplay anything
The simnply am not allowing you to change the subject
And the subject here is whether or not you have made up your own definition for a word
You have
And you know it
It is why you claim you haven't but won't give me an example of what making up a definition of a word would be. because anything you say would be exactly what you have done
I am arguing with someone trying to tell me dictionaries don't define words
Topix...gotta love it
Right. So when I asked you:

Do you want to discuss how dictionaries can be used and what they're for?
Or do you want to discuss how atheists have spiritual experiences?

You should just be honest and say "I want to talk about dictionaries."

Because that's about as far as you can grasp this conversation.

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