Why Should Jesus Love Me?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#562356 Jul 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
OK. Of course, that sounds a lot like the naturalistic process, the one we undergo without any help from a holy spirit.
I would think that the Christian should make that progress just by virtue of having a supernatural spirit infusion, and should so it better and faster that those attempting the accomplish the same transition without it. It would be evidence of a god to both the soul directly affected by the spirit, which would strengthen the god-human relationship in that life, and would also serve as a beacon to the rest of us.
How do you reconcile that with the claim that an omnipotent and omniscient god very much wants us to know and worship him? To me, that is best explained by calling the god a creation of men.
With all due respect, these are the kinds of things that argue against the existence of the god to me. Time after time, when there is an opportunity for a god to show itself, instead, it is invisible. Whenever the god has a chance to make an impact in a way that would be apparent, it doesn't. Consider the studies on the efficacy of prayer. Prayer doesn't accomplishes anything in these studies. Why? Does prayer suddenly lose its power when being studied?
These matters are generally explained away in terms of belief by faith being superior to the god, or that it is a sin to test the god. As I said, to me, having to resort to answers like that is sufficient evidence that the god a creation of men.
Hi IANS,
Thanks for your response. I have been doing a lot of thinking, searching and talking to God today and I found something a little interesting but it will take a few pages to post it all. To be honest, I was a little stunned at what I found but it does make more sense than anything else that I have ever heard before. First, I will answer your questions above with a big fat " I DONT KNOW"..Who knows the mind of God? I am impressed with what you are asking though and I was especially impressed with this response "The God is a creation of men" <end quote>..Very interesting and I somewhat agree. Of course I know it is the other way around, however, It does seem like men have created a god that is very different than the One that created us. Everywhere you look we see different interpretations and somebody is always telling someone else " God Says this or that" or God wants us to do this or that and even tells us WHO God Loves and I would like to point out a few things that I discovered. Get ready for the "hives" to start buzzing and stinging me for this but if we really open our eyes to this, maybe we will see what God may really be like..

Continued on another page....

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#562357 Jul 25, 2013
Many Christians are convinced that everyone who did not profess Christ before death, even those who never so much as heard of Christ, are now in hell, being tortured in agony by God—the God the same Christians ironically proclaim as compassionate, merciful, loving and full of grace.

"God loves you," some of us Christians seem to be saying, but then comes the fine print: "If you don’t say the sinner’s prayer before you die, then my merciful Lord and Savior will torture you forever."

Gospel= Good News
The gospel of Jesus Christ is good news. It remains forever, good news, the best news imaginable, for absolutely everybody and everything. It is not merely good news for the few who came to know Christ before they died; it is good news for the whole of creation—even for all those who died before they ever heard of Christ.

Jesus Christ is the atoning sacrifice not merely for the sins of Christians but for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). The Creator is also the Redeemer of his creation (Colossians 1:15-20). Whether people know that truth before they die is not the thing that determines whether it is true. It depends entirely on Jesus Christ, not on human action or human response of any kind.

Jesus said, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life" (John 3:16)
It is God who loved the world and God who gave his Son, and he gave him to save what he loved—the world. Whoever believes in the Son whom God sent will enter into eternal life (better translated "the life of the age to come").

The verse says nothing about that belief having to come prior to physical death. In fact, it says that believers will not perish, and since even believers die, it should be obvious that "perish" and "die" are not the same thing. Belief keeps people from perishing, but it does not keep them from dying.

The kind of perishing that Jesus is talking about here, translated from the Greek word apoletai, is a spiritual death, not a physical one. It has to do with utter destruction, with being abolished, put an end to, or ruined. Those who believe in Jesus will not come to such a final end, but will, instead, enter into the life (zoe) of the age to come (aeonion).
Some enter into the life of the age to come, or kingdom life, while they still live and walk on the earth, but in the grand scheme of things, this happens to only a few of those who make up the "world" or "kosmos" that God loves so much that he sent his Son to save it.

( The Kingdom of God is within Us)
I know you heard that verse a thousands times..I have but never really meditated on it much.

Sometimes we read where Jesus is talking about "life" and most people automatically assume that He is talking about eternal life but is He? When He speaks of eternal life..He says...Eternal Life..Not Life..as in THIS LIFE..

What about the rest? This verse does not say that God cannot or won’t bring to faith any of those who die physically before believing.

The idea that physical death is a barrier to God’s ability to save, or to his ability to bring a person to faith in Christ, is a human interpretation; the Bible states no such thing. We are told that everyone dies, and then they are judged (Hebrews 9:27). But let us remember that their Judge, thank God, is none other than Jesus, the slaughtered Lamb of God who died for their sins—and that changes everything.

If the One who judges us is the One who died for us..What do you think the verdict will be??

Where do we get this notion that God is only able to save live people and not dead ones? He conquered death, didn’t he? He rose from the dead, didn’t he? God doesn’t hate the world; he loves it. He didn’t create humanity for hell. Christ came to save the world, not to condemn it (John 3:17).

So you see, maybe men have created a god that best suits their agenda and ignore all this..

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#562358 Jul 25, 2013
So, then, what about the family and friends of those who die without having professed faith in Christ? Does the gospel offer them any hope and encouragement about the fate of their dead loved ones? Indeed, the Gospel of John records Jesus declaring, "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself" (John 12:32). That’s good news, the gospel truth. Jesus didn’t lay out a timetable, but he did declare that he would draw everybody to himself, not just a few who find out who he is before they die, but absolutely everybody.

Then it is no wonder that Paul wrote to the Christians in the city of Colosse that in Jesus Christ, God was pleased, pleased, mind you, to "reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross." (Col. 1:20). That’s good news. And it is, like Jesus said, good news for the whole world, not just for the limited few.

Paul wanted his readers to know that this Jesus, this Son of God raised from the dead, is not just some exciting leader of a new and improved religious concept. Paul is telling them that Jesus is none other than the Creator and Sustainer of all things (verses 16-17), and more than that, he is God’s way of fixing absolutely everything that has gone wrong with the world from the beginning of history (verse 20)! In Christ, God has moved once and for all to make good on all his promises that he made to Israel—promises that he would one day act in pure grace to forgive all sins everywhere and make everything new (see Acts 13:32-33; 3:20-21; Isa. 43:19; Rev. 21:5; Rom. 8:19-21).

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#562359 Jul 25, 2013
But salvation is only for Christians," the fundamentalists howl. Yes, of course it is. But just who are "the Christians"? Are they only those who repeat the sinner’s prayer? Are they only those who are baptized by immersion? Only those who belong to the "true" church? Only those who are absolved by a duly ordained priest? Only those who have ceased sinning.(Have you? I haven’t.) Only those who come to know Jesus before they die? Or does Jesus himself, the one into whose nail-pierced hands God has given all judgment, decide who is and is not ultimately to be included among those upon whom he will have mercy? And while he is at it, does he, the one who conquered death and grants eternal life to whomever he will, decide when he might bring a person to faith, or do we, the all-wise defenders of the true religion, make that determination for him?

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#562360 Jul 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That's not what you asked. You loaded your question with an unshared premise. There was no question there for me to answer. You might as well have asked me about angels.
<quoted text>
I'm not sure what that means, but your added thought made the question meaningless and unanswerable to me. My thoughts about abuse to the earth include the effects of god beliefs on environmental policy.
Do you know what a push poll is? It's a form of psychological manipulation - political propaganda, usually, but also seen in advertising - where a message is delivered posing as a survey.
From Wiki: "A push poll is an interactive marketing technique, most commonly employed during political campaigning, in which an individual or organization attempts to influence or alter the view of respondents under the guise of conducting a poll."
If you want to know what I think about environmental policy, don't turn it into an ad for Jesus.
You will have to excuse me then if I find this post of yours rather funny, as, if that is your summery, it wasn't planned that way. I don't fight for Jesus... but if it comes across like that, that, while I fight for the earth – which means for all of us... with you included – it is no sales pitch that the poor earth is close to revolting with the treatment it is given by humanity as a whole. So somewhere between you and Jesus - all of us - stands a warrior alone who pleads with him to save the earth. Because none of us can stop it from happening!

So if that is a sales pitch, I would hate to think what no money can offer ? As all the gold in the would couldn't even stop it in time from revolting now.

I do care Ians... even if you think otherwise. So if that means standing up to Jesus instead of bowing to him, then please tell me what a Christian is supposed to be as against all the ones you have studied?

You can't expect me to leave him out of my life all together, but even if you and many do, it doesn't change the earth plight's facts. I know I've got that right. I certainly am not against any of you not believing. That, is the least of my worries... heaven knows I know more people who don't believe. So what. Just say if you don't want to talk to me. That is easily fixed. But it doesn't change what I said either.

In posting this, I see you have more for me. I haven't read them yet. But if they add up to all we've both shared, then the job is done and I won't need to answer them too.

Just take care there in Mexico also. I told you we loved it!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#562361 Jul 25, 2013
God is in the business of saving people, not torturing them. Jesus is Redeemer, and whether we believe it or not, he is awfully good at what he does. He is the Savior of the world (John 3:17), not the Savior of a fraction of the world. "God so loved the world" (verse 16)—not merely one out of 1,000.

God has ways, and his ways are higher than our ways.

Jesus tells us, "Love your enemies" (Matt. 5:43). Surely we believe he loves his own enemies. Or do we believe that Jesus hates his enemies while he calls on us to love ours, and that his hatred accounts for why there is a hell? Give me a break. Jesus asks us to love our enemies precisely because he loves them. "Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing," Jesus prayed of those who murdered him (Luke 23:34).

Certainly, those who continue to refuse Jesus’ grace even after they understand it receive the fruit of their own choice. There is no place left for people who refuse to accept His free gift except outer darkness (another of the metaphors Jesus used to describe the state of alienation from God; see Matt. 22:13; 25:30).

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God,‘Thy will be done’ and those to whom God says, in the end,‘THY will be done.’ All that are in Hell choose it. Without that self-choice, there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek, find. To those who knock, it is opened"

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562362 Jul 25, 2013
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm, I guess I'll have to agree with you there.
Basically, I'm always right. If you don't believe me, just watch how Nano treats me - it's worship in its finest form, as justified by my perfection of all that is good and true in our universe.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562363 Jul 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL
I'll screw me anytime.
<hands RR some olive oil>

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562364 Jul 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Me don't know if me likes me anymore.
<hands RR some olive oil>

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562365 Jul 25, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
huh?:-(
if your ambiguous god is everything, everywhere and really has no Name, Character or Body per se, is it also in your stool? just wondering about how those kinda gods operate.....
It's pretty easy. Go spend some time among the desperately poor of third world nations. You'll know impotent deities then.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562366 Jul 25, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
A recluse is self-indulgent snarling at every sound principal of conduct.
Guilty as charged.

Now, can I pleeeease get back to my MMO???

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562367 Jul 25, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
Fools have no interest in understanding, they only want to air their own opinions.
Kind of sounds like someone who would post a lot of one liners...

:)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562368 Jul 25, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
Words satisfy the soul as food satisfies the stomach; the right word on a person's lips bring satisfaction.
<hugs lil whispers>

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562369 Jul 25, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Serah tells us often that she has a confirmation bias, although she doesn't use those words.
Her priority is to support her beliefs, not to learn what is actually true. Her "research" is yet another fantasy, a pretense to sate her cognitive dissonance. She knows it would be better if she could support her beliefs with evidence and SCIENCE, so she plays at doing the work. It doesn't matter at all that she can't convince anyone else that she's backed by SCIENCE. It's just a ruse to fool herself, which works, because she doesn't know what she's doing.
That's quite true, Tide. And kind of annoying. Confirmation biases suck!

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562370 Jul 25, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
The new motto for the American school system: Go draconian or go home!
hahaha! It'd be better than what they currently do.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562371 Jul 25, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
God is in the business of saving people, not torturing them. Jesus is Redeemer, and whether we believe it or not, he is awfully good at what he does. He is the Savior of the world (John 3:17), not the Savior of a fraction of the world. "God so loved the world" (verse 16)—not merely one out of 1,000.
God has ways, and his ways are higher than our ways.
So...who does your deity save?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#562372 Jul 25, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. fight? Not really, not my style. It was a serious question ..
.. most Christians consider both homosexuality and abortion immoral. If a gay gene is found and science is unable to to negate it, then what? Do you let the embryo live, knowing as an adult, it will be gay or do you abort ??..
.. can you see the dilemma Christians would face? And, no, I don't want a fight. You can choose not to respond ..
Hello HL..
Most of those Religious people that you are referring to also uses their own "opinions" about what is moral and/or immoral. If they don't or never have done something then it is WRONG!!! LOL. I honestly believe that if some of these folks were actually living in the time of the crucifixion, they would be the one's who would scream the loudest " crucify him..crucify him..
Lord knows that they do it enough already. These are the very one's who pick out all the condemnation versus instead of spreading the Good News..They want to CRUCIFY!!!!!!!! Nothing changed much over the years. Remember, it WAS the religious leaders who wanted to kill Jesus but yet they killed people for killing people and for committing adultery..

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#562373 Jul 25, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So...who does your deity save?
It isn't "who DOES He save..Its who he DID save..EVERYBODY..He came to save the world. ALL means ALL.:)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562375 Jul 25, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
It isn't "who DOES He save..Its who he DID save..EVERYBODY..He came to save the world. ALL means ALL.:)
That's awesome. Uhm, I'm guessing you're meaning some non-material sense, given that this world is full of poverty, suffering from disease and, you know, other belief systems that have other deities.

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#562376 Jul 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
To you. To me, the essence of the statement was that there is a god. The question is completely different with and without that premise.
I'm asking to understand and acknowledge my beliefs in your communications. You seem to be expecting me to ignore yours embedded into the question instead. Well, no. Frankly, I'm tired of accommodating the Christian majority, and I'm starting to get the impression that I don't have to any more.
<quoted text>
Now you're telling me that the question was actually a statement,like a push poll. I would have answered it as a question had you left the religious implications out of it.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps there was no disrespect intended. I'm telling you that I find your presumption offensive. Will you not modify your language to acknowledge that our beliefs differ?
<quoted text>
I don't need to correct any thoughts. Carry on as you wish, and I will, too.
<quoted text>
That's wrong two ways. You asked me a question fit for a fellow theist, not an atheist. And it's not about rights. Your god mention was gratuitous, and I find it offensive. You have the right to be offensive, and I have the right to read it as such.
<quoted text>
I wasn't talking about rights. You were.
And you do have freedom to express yourself, but not free from criticism.
I'm sorry to you find even presumptions. I told you the conversazione with both you and Mark has been my first with this subject matter with of a non believer in the Christian Faith with any thought of concerting anyone.

Respect for me to any of you has been acceptance of this fact. But if you want to draw a line in this, without me still believing there is a God - or Jesus -..within my conversation, then it is no more less disrespectful to speak to me of none.

So if religious implications are expressed in all the Bible quotes I see you use, my expressions were never targeted against your beliefs on purpose, but somehow seem to have been seen as such by you. You truly have been in this game a long time, and I truly am very new.

You see... I truly don't draw a line between theist or atheist when it comes to safety... or rescue. And I really am thinking of everyone on this earth.

Oh well... take care. You have taught me much. I told you I am a quick learner. Even an encyclopedia Britannica set, given to me as a gift once to answer my questions was declines as kindergarten, and I gave it to a child.

We both have always been free to carry on... so thank you.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Plurality of Americans think Trump is failing 1 min Alt Right Lies 7,961
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 11 min waaasssuuup 123,925
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 12 min Anthony MN 681,981
News Can Americans trust the daily news? (Feb '15) 30 min AmPieJam UncleSam 3
Poll Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 35 min onemales mother 286,499
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 1 hr waaasssuuup 982,382
Why do we live life when we have to die anyway? (Jul '13) 3 hr nanoanomaly 299
More from around the web