“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#556654 Jul 12, 2013
@ Ians Part 1 of 7

Peace_Warrior wrote:
= I don't even think the terms,'violation of rights'…

I can see how even the word 'think' was misunderstood. I didn't know these terms to think or feel in when you wrote them. I think in my language, speak in another, and write in yours, which is very English. Your master of the language seems to be your joy. For me it is merely communication as correct and as open as I can be, which includes thought.

You are quick, cleaver, and quite wrong when it comes to things you think are my thoughts on your terms. I just don't like 'terms' used against how I think, and is sufficient that I do understand the essence of without petty dissection. Anything else just adds up to fine print. I don't post, other than to share, so would appreciate anyone ask if not understood, rather than form conclusions. To box or analyse such thoughts, the core of the matter becomes no longer a human issue of rights or religion, but only an English lesson.

As a result you then formulate
=“ You don't remember your words? Let's try this again:

Which were mine to you and Mark
= "What is your urgency to try and make any believe or not? Surely everyone has a right one way or the other, even as you and thousands of others - religious or not – do."

I don't beat around the bush, but grasp something very quickly, then have no need to ask nor debate the point further. The terms used were born out of Mark's repeated demands for others to answer his questions... with an added statement...
…“we have to make people believe”,
Otherwise there would be no need for the words 'urgent' or 'right'.

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#556655 Jul 12, 2013
@ Ians Part 2 of 7
You seem to feel I felt challenged ?
=“(and Mark before me) challenged those beliefs. I asked you if you thought that such questions violated those rights, and suddenly, not only do you not know what I'm referring to, you imply that the whole topic is alien to you - you don't even think in such terms.”

I imply nothing but what I am repeating, while you read into it what you will. It is my custom to gather what is worth harvesting without analysis. The only thing that is alien to me is you. The rest is coming to terms with our differences, and you of all people should know that customs and culture can very very alien to many. One thing I am, is honest, and respect is part of that, which is the world I move in.

Mark answered that Christianity is like a virus, sending me a Borg You-tube - which I found funny!- so I played on that Borg theme which he said was a 'typical rhetorical Christian'. I never knew it was. I certainly feel no challenge just because you, he or anyone else believes differently. I know when I'm right and will be the first to apologize when I'm wrong. It is our right, right ?

Between you and Mark it is the first real discussion I have had with some-one on the subject. My life has never been in arguing out beliefs or religions, and I don't intend to begin.

You ask
= "Do you think that critiquing your beliefs violates that RIGHT?"

From my point of view, whether at the hands of Christian dogmatists or anyone else's, it doesn't change the fact we are both concerned re abuse of children and human rights.

I asked questions. You answered, and I amplified your concerns with mine which didn't deflect form your own. I don't share joint empathy to be critiqued re my personal Christian beliefs, nor do I analyse yours. There is no freedom in that. I accept with respect your own, or anyone else’s.

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#556656 Jul 12, 2013
@ Ians Part 3 of 7

When I comment re being light hearted, because I don't think in your language terms/words, you say...
=“ To me, that's not light-hearted. It's light-headed. And that would be fine, except that you followed it with a criticism of my demeanour...
To which you draw your assumption from my own words
= "it seems to me that 'light' is missed in life by many."
Only you read that into this..
Light really is missed by many, regardless of religion or race or humor.
… if you feel your 'demeanor' is being criticized by an open statement of
…'light'
… or 'light-hearted' or
…'being missed by many'
… includes you
… then I'm sorry,. I do not go out of my way to cast a shadow on anyone.

As for the other examples you measure me against, that's not a problem. I learned long ago from a wise teacher that if we can't say anything constitutive about another person don't say anything at all.

I ask questions I do not know the answers to, and have no need to ask of what I do know.
='Why Atheists opposed Christianity more than other religions?' Plus why is it this Faith and not others?

Your answered
=“In the West, it's the only religion we need to defend ourselves from.”
I accepted the essence of this... but can add here

This is a powerful statement. I was not aware in today's world of Christianity that any non believer needed to defend themselves from this! I'm not aware either that Jesus ever forced anyone to follow him – it was always and only ever meant to be one's free will – so, it is the human religious error which has wronged, and we all know everyone suffers at the hands of wrong. Truth is, there is nothing to fear from the true hearted believer where there will always be respect and freedom of what anyone believes. Those who have taken it on themselves to dog throat a person into this belief, will cease and any need to defend will also. History has a foul record of their accounts.
Judgement come to all who wrong.

You added, with the links you shared re America
-“ why an American behave a certain way is going to reflect the perspective of an American”
I see no harm in adding mine of the bigger picture when America or her Allies are professed Christian countries... when global issues are my concerns, which still relate to the rights of innocents killed in the name of -'In God we trust '- warfare. Whether by error, deceit, or stealth.

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#556657 Jul 12, 2013
@ Ians Part 4 of 7
You feel with my lack of your knowledge that my understanding can't fathom what you are saying.
= This is going to be another example of me having to do all of the work in a conversation, isn't it?

What work ? Understanding one another's differences of speech? I'm just trying to communicate. I hope you will appreciate the time gone into me trying for you. Try and understand another thing... I am an action person, accustomed to being where cries for real physical help leave no-one time to discuss religion or race. That is and always has been my stomping ground, and unless you are on the verge of war, this is not an emergency.

My success in the bigger issues has been my smallness. I'm not the one at the top of any list, but the little one called the first step at the bottom of the ladder which anyone has to step on to make the climb… but with exception.. It's also called respect if anyone wants that success. Others have seen me as just the idiot who doesn't know enough of what's going on because no-one sees what I do until it's done.
So don't feel alone...

That's why I added the bigger picture
= your concerns of a few incidents found in a population of 350 + million

You think
=“ I think that you should be concerned, too, not downplaying the significance of those reports. They are undoubtedly only the tip of the iceberg.”

But I am...+ know they are just the tip of the iceberg.

So you say...
= You asked me why I directed my antireligious energy almost exclusively against
Christianity, and I gave you four anecdotal answers which you poo-pooed away as merely "a few incidents found in a population of 350 + million," a common strategy among apologists trying to defend their beleaguered religion.

Well wow... I'm learning to hear and read not only your big words but how the common Christian defends! I find that quite funny to be equated with anything called common, seeing I have never defended Christianity before. That is a common thread I have not yet woven!

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#556658 Jul 12, 2013
@ Ians Part 5 of 7

You add...
= The Catholics do the same defending their organized pedophile syndicate-'You've only caught a handful out of thousands of priests, so that's all there are and you are overstating the problem.' Statistical sampling is suddenly invalid. One is precluded from drawing any conclusion about Christianity until one has interviewed all Christians.

When it comes to the roots of, my concerns are the deceivers - the heads of the Church, as are Governments also - and not the individuals True leaders don't create crooked followers. You know I have nothing to do with church or state, and man's vile behaviors. On the whole, with the core problem being the religion of Christianity's wrong doers... that is 'man's religion'. Under the scope, sound judgement is objective in any case without bias or pre-conception. The guilty will pay the price of their deceit having boosted their own power bases and coffers to their own glory and egos while doing harm. That has been the human error from the start.

You add...
=“ Anyway, when you can show me four examples of Druids beating children to death in my world, then I'll split my energy between the Christians and the Druids.”

I don't I know anything about Druids, and you can do what you like, as I have enough on my hands full enough with the mass murders of man's beliefs in wiping out his enemy in the western European world.

----> Then we were speaking of abuse of the earth, and you mentioned Christians don't care due to the expected rapture theory.

Peace_Warrior wrote:
= That is appalling for Christians to think like that. They share the planet equally.

You added
= They live on it, but I don't think they think as much of it as we do.

I agree. That is sad. The power dealers turn it into a new world order hiding behind the cloak of Christianity. Then use climate change to make more money before practicing what they preach themselves. It's a viscous cycle in the face of humanity's suffering at their own hands while they profit by false prophesy as well, and scare mongering.

You go on to say
= A lot of Christians ignore the bible. That's its great strength, and why it is so durable: it's only words, and no Christian is obligated to follow any of it.
I personally find incredible strength in these words which must seem like a paradox to you. You know the power of the atom when split? The Word that has been spread through time – which no-one can measure - is like that. It gains strength every time it is split, and doesn't diminish. It can be likened for analogy to the 3 in 1 Quark phases which interact while always reproducing.

It is claimed The Word was God's, and non-belief nor believer can change these facts There truly is power in it's specific vibration which science hasn't understood. eg. How things 'come together'- as in the sound energy flux - which is so infinitely finely tuned, it really does bring about 'what is spoken to happen.' As in...“and it was so.”-

This 'precisely fine' is the reason it is called 'spiritual'– and why it is said,'God is Spirit.' Like everything good, wrong doers sorely abuse its meaning. All this is what makes 'religion' false. You are right, no-one is obliged to stay on the road. Many roads are worse than others because of their failed teachers.

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#556659 Jul 12, 2013
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
God's Word says otherwise.
Mark 16:16.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
So Le_le, are you telling us that God's Word is a lie?
Beacuse it clearly says that quote: "he that believeth not shall be damned".
While you say quote: "Not one single soul will be lost..
Not a one.."
So which is the truth Le_le, what you say, or what God's Word says?
Ok. In your wold, many will perish forever and ever..
In my world..we all fall short.. Yet - not one will be lost.

I trust my heart..
I know who I am in Christ.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#556660 Jul 12, 2013
Sell all that you have and give to the poor.
The man had asked Jesus what he had to do to have eternal life/be saved. In short, Jesus told him he had to keep the commandments. The young man responded that he had since he was a youth. What do I still need to do? That is when Jesus told him if he wanted to be perfect sell what he had and give to the poor. The young man went away because he had great possessions. In Mark it says Jesus said to him one thing thou lackest. Later in response to Peter, Jesus said, with men it Is impossible. But with God all things are possible. I conclude from this that if it is possible to bea rich man with God, then it must not mean for everyone to sell all that they have.
More later.

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#556661 Jul 12, 2013
@ Ians Part 6 of 7
You ask...
=“ Are you a salvation by faith or works fan? Either way, I have you covered with scripture. Do you think the old law is fulfilled, or that it is still in effects? No matter. I've got you covered there as well, whatever your preference.”

I am neither, and no-one can 'cover me' any more than I am. I will not play games with the Word the way folk think they can by throwing bombs at one another via what is included in scripture. That is not strength but weakness and lack of knowledge. God's Word is beyond that, and this is why the power struggle belongs to this man made religion. The Word belongs to God. As guardians of, we do not abuse it. But one thing of this faith I have found myself is that I have never let the one you don't believe in, down. And by whatever name his is argued over, for me he will always be Jesus. His will always be the one who renewed covenant and the law… at the cost of his with his Life.
Hebrews 8:13
By using the words, "a new Covenant," He has made the first one obsolete; but whatever is decaying and showing signs of old age is not far from disappearing altogether.
Matthew 22:27-40
‘... love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important:‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

You add...
=“ So these man are free to ignore any biblical teaching they like in their pursuit of war or plundering the earth and not expect much backlash from the church.”

You said it.'These men'– and the problem is their man made church/religion. Never think that wrongs are not uncovered nor go unpunished. Their day are short now. Very short.

So you feel
= Too bad the Christians that make the decisions don't think more like you, or that people that think like you don't decide how the world is run. It would be a completely different religion than the one we see.

There would be no religion as man made. But no-one can eradicate God from existence.

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#556662 Jul 12, 2013
@ Ians Part 7 of 7
Peace_Warrior wrote:
Seems all belief systems with extremists 'right or left wing'… become the petty arguments for or against.

You say
=“ if that's the word you choose to use, extremists dominate the church. Their viewpoints define it. They're typically pro-war and anti-ecology"

Ja... it's sad. But everything has a way of returning on the heads of the wrong doers wrongs. Must be the power of the Word. What goes around comes around.

Peace_Warrior wrote:
Science has made their mistakes also, and don't need to be Secular or Christian to know this.

You ask
=“ What mistakes has science made that are of relevance to this discussion? Are you talking about the misuse of science by ideologues?"

They've missed the Word! What they promote is only their limitations more-so than faults.

Peace_Warrior wrote:
=“ I feel many lump all Christians into one pile, but we are individual in our personal life.”

You add
=“ I agree, I prefer to deal with Christianity and the church rather than individual Christians, since the latter really aren't the problem. It's the church that is. It hurts them and the rest of us as well. I find that a lot of Christian mistake that for lumping all Christians together."

It's how anyone discussing the subject comes across that makes some feel this way... ie/ Christians believe that...[ fill in the dots.]

We all have a case when it comes to human choice and rights. That was given from the start and the only thing which has subtracted from that truth is any who thought they knew better for existing peacefully and healthily on the planet by using force. Until the human race comes to this conclusion, just know that Christian or any belief will still exist, but just without the right or left extremes of antagonism towards each other.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#556663 Jul 12, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Clearwater was not openly gay.
He was in the closet, sorely tempted.
But he resisted the urges.
His wife is the one who was gay, and engaged in "the gay lifestyle", i.e., had sex with women. Clearwater calls it a perversion. He had a perverted wife, in his words.
Let get it straight (no pun intended).
Female humans are quite often bisexual. Note the OT only condemns male homosexuality.
There a few good anthropological reasons why bisexuality in women is fairly common.

As for CC, I could care less about his religion or sexual orientation except that it has made him a real dirtball.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#556664 Jul 12, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
My iPhone did it.
No, my iPad did it.
Jesus made me do it.
It was a miracle.
It's not my fault!
Am I getting good at the RR technique?
You need to explain how "lets" actually means "fever blisters". LOL

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#556665 Jul 12, 2013
blind man n the bleachers wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey G. How's it going? I can appreciate what you are saying here. And it appears that many of the early Christians understood it the same way. And I don't agree with either. Scar responded to this as well. I can say with certainty that the whom was a "rich man". I will be getting into this shortly. I would be interested in your thoughts of what I present.
I might just join in meself...but I would like to hear the rhetoric first.

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#556666 Jul 12, 2013
Peace_Warrior wrote:
@ Ians Part 7 of 7
Peace_Warrior wrote:
Seems all belief systems with extremists 'right or left wing'… become the petty arguments for or against.
You say
=“ if that's the word you choose to use, extremists dominate the church. Their viewpoints define it. They're typically pro-war and anti-ecology"
Ja... it's sad. But everything has a way of returning on the heads of the wrong doers wrongs. Must be the power of the Word. What goes around comes around.
Peace_Warrior wrote:
Science has made their mistakes also, and don't need to be Secular or Christian to know this.
You ask
=“ What mistakes has science made that are of relevance to this discussion? Are you talking about the misuse of science by ideologues?"
They've missed the Word! What they promote is only their limitations more-so than faults.
Peace_Warrior wrote:
=“ I feel many lump all Christians into one pile, but we are individual in our personal life.”
You add
=“ I agree, I prefer to deal with Christianity and the church rather than individual Christians, since the latter really aren't the problem. It's the church that is. It hurts them and the rest of us as well. I find that a lot of Christian mistake that for lumping all Christians together."
It's how anyone discussing the subject comes across that makes some feel this way... ie/ Christians believe that...[ fill in the dots.]
We all have a case when it comes to human choice and rights. That was given from the start and the only thing which has subtracted from that truth is any who thought they knew better for existing peacefully and healthily on the planet by using force. Until the human race comes to this conclusion, just know that Christian or any belief will still exist, but just without the right or left extremes of antagonism towards each other.
Spam.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#556667 Jul 12, 2013
blind man n the bleachers wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL I'm pretty sure it's a typo. But, is there really a morons team :) Hahahaha Hello, we are with the morons team, we have been trying to help people. But no one will let us. They say we will mess things up because we are morons.:)
Sorry :) I had to. It was there :)
LOL

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#556668 Jul 12, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Fasten your seatbelt.
I don't wear seatbelts. I keep the judge well endowed with expense funds too!

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#556669 Jul 12, 2013
Peace_Warrior wrote:
@ Ians Part 7 of 7
Peace_Warrior wrote:
Seems all belief systems with extremists 'right or left wing'… become the petty arguments for or against.
You say
=“ if that's the word you choose to use, extremists dominate the church. Their viewpoints define it. They're typically pro-war and anti-ecology"
Ja... it's sad. But everything has a way of returning on the heads of the wrong doers wrongs. Must be the power of the Word. What goes around comes around.
Peace_Warrior wrote:
Science has made their mistakes also, and don't need to be Secular or Christian to know this.
You ask
=“ What mistakes has science made that are of relevance to this discussion? Are you talking about the misuse of science by ideologues?"
They've missed the Word! What they promote is only their limitations more-so than faults.
Peace_Warrior wrote:
=“ I feel many lump all Christians into one pile, but we are individual in our personal life.”
You add
=“ I agree, I prefer to deal with Christianity and the church rather than individual Christians, since the latter really aren't the problem. It's the church that is. It hurts them and the rest of us as well. I find that a lot of Christian mistake that for lumping all Christians together."
It's how anyone discussing the subject comes across that makes some feel this way... ie/ Christians believe that...[ fill in the dots.]
We all have a case when it comes to human choice and rights. That was given from the start and the only thing which has subtracted from that truth is any who thought they knew better for existing peacefully and healthily on the planet by using force. Until the human race comes to this conclusion, just know that Christian or any belief will still exist, but just without the right or left extremes of antagonism towards each other.
Hello Peace Warrior :) Hmm, so how do you really feel?:) Just playing :) As usual, a very good read :)

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#556670 Jul 12, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh ya, now I remember. The Stingray. NICE car, dude.
Wait.
You have a Vette.
You're old, huh?
(shhh)
I'm 57. I look 47. The Vette is 33, will look new soon. <smile>

I always wanted a Stingray/Shark Vette (68-82) since I was a kid.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#556671 Jul 12, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a 1980 Corvette.
Here's a pic from last year:
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag58/Good...
I restored a 69 fastback for a friend of mine. it was in over 100 pieces!. It was in "new" condition when finished. He and his brother helped a lot. We are eternally friends...$250 labor and "parts" was all-INCLUDING CUSTOM PAINT....NEVER AGAIN!

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#556672 Jul 12, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
I might just join in meself...but I would like to hear the rhetoric first.
Hey BT, how are you doing :) Please do. That is what I like. It is a pretty boring discussion when everyone agrees and says the same thing. There is nothing new to think about :)

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#556673 Jul 12, 2013
blind man n the bleachers wrote:
Sell all that you have and give to the poor.
The story of the rich man is told in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
For the purpose of this part of this discussion. Matthew 19:16-26, Mark 10:17-27, and Luke 18:15-27. More from Luke in another part of the discussion.
To whom was Jesus speaking? In specific, Jesus was speaking to the rich man/young man/ruler. All three accounts say Jesus said to him.
But, at the same time he was speaking to everyone there also. But the specifics of what he said to the rich man was an example of the message he was giving to everyone that was there, not only everyone there, but I believe everyone.
Agreed. The message was for everyone, not just the rich or just that man.

Please continue.

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