Why Should Jesus Love Me?

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#553661 Jul 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, I consider Christianity infantilizing. I can expand on that if you like, although this may be enough:
"The church doesn't like for people to grow up, because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being born again. When you're 'born again' you're still a child. People don't need to be born again, they need to grow up." - Bishop John Shelby Spong
Thanks for your inquiry.
Riverside Redneck is a perfect example of this. No matter what rational arguments are presented to him (and Double Fine has been doing a magnificent job of this), he returns to his infantile, irrational beliefs, based on his "personal relationship" with a fictitious, incorporeal, omnipotent being.

“Educating the uneducated”

Since: Aug 12

Montreal

#553662 Jul 2, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting. According to most Christians "The Law" was abolished. So "murder" no longer exists.
It's like they're TRYING to sound immoral.
Mark

Hedel, Netherlands

#553663 Jul 2, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Culture and society evolve over time. That's why the Constitution must be considered a living, dynamic, adaptable document. The "originalists" (Scalia et al.) prefer a Constitution set in stone as of the 1790s.
Your government agrees with you. Deprivation of freedom in Guantanamo Bay, sanctified torture by the CIA, secretly monitoring everyone with Prism, secret laws, your constitution is already regarded as very fluid indeed by your government. The USA has one of the best constitutions in the World, If I were you I would not let anyone temper with it, but defend it like it were the holy grail. Otherwise you will be sorry.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#553664 Jul 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Russell covers that well in his section entitled "The Moral Problem"
http://www.users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html

"Christ certainly as depicted in the Gospels did believe in everlasting punishment, and one does find repeatedly a vindictive fury against those people who would not listen to His preaching [...] You will find that in the Gospels Christ said, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of Hell." That was said to people who did not like His preaching [...] He goes on about the wailing and gnashing of teeth. It comes in one verse after another, and it is quite manifest to the reader that there is a certain pleasure in contemplating wailing and gnashing of teeth, or else it would not occur so often."
Favorite Adversary wrote:
Russell's knowledge of context was sorely lacking. Jesus said these words to the organized religious leaders who were perverting the scriptures for their own use and influence in Israeli society much as televangelists do today.
How is that a rebuttal? As Russell noted, Jesus goes back to this area again and again in a variety of settings.

It's interesting how often the apologists' response is that a certain scripture doesn't apply any more, or only to a limited group. I think that it was Riverside Redneck telling us that much of the bible that you all carry to church every Sunday isn't actually for you - it was for Levites.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#553665 Jul 2, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
To say that Jesus enjoyed it is a gross misunderstanding of the nature of God. Jesus was warning people but not enjoying it.
Was Jesus god? Why does a god need to warn anybody of anything? Because it's petulant and prone to punishing? If so, then you are wrong about the nature of your god.

The church keeps telling us how loving its god is, but the model for ultimate love in Christian terms requires blood, torture and death. The god loved us so much that it tortured something for us.

And it built a torture pit and stocked it with fire and demons. For what reason? To keep us conscious after death to suffer forever to the benefit of nobody that isn't a sadist.

I think that you are the one misunderstanding the Christian god.

Let me ask you this: given what I just told you, and that your god has already allegedly already almost sterilized the earth once, intends to do it again, and has ordered the genocide of millions of human beings, can you name a more heinous character in all of literature?

I already know that you can't. Nobody can. So you don't really have a case for the skeptics misunderstanding the nature of the Christian god. It's the ones that call such behavior loving that misunderstand.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#553666 Jul 2, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
A common misconception about Hell is that of literal interpretation.
Misconception? There you go again. You think that you have the correct conception. I don't. Hell was meant literally by the bible authors, and has been threatened for centuries as the literal fate of those rejecting Christian doctrine.
Favorite Adversary wrote:
Hell is actually separation from God.
I'm separated from your god and am very happy.
Favorite Adversary wrote:
It is eternal loneliness and regret over being self centered and stubborn. It is eternal consciousness that the person rejected God in favor of himself or herself and as such is separated from all light and love.
Where does your bible say that?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#553668 Jul 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
You'll never understand skeptics if you keep translating our type of thinking into theistic terms. For example, for us, it isn't about belief in a god. That issue is already settled for the atheist. It's about a pernicious church, an issue that is still not settled.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
From what I can tell, the anti-theist stance IS about a belief in God. A belief that says: "There is no god and we need to make sure everyone believes the same thing!"
You're wrong about both what a skeptic is and what skeptics think.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#553669 Jul 2, 2013
blind man n the bleachers wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the response. I don't know of any verse off the top of my head where El is addressing the Elohim. If you are referring to psalm 82, I did see one translation that translated it that way. But the majority translate it as God among the gods(the judges etc.) And God didn't speak to them it was them being told God was in their midst and would judge them. That is my understanding. As you understand it, I would have to say your conclusion is logical. As I understand it, I think my conclusion is logical. That is if faith can be logical. But that is another discussion :)Just some of my thoughts n the matter :)
Both our interpretations are logical.

That is why I like discussing this stuff with you.

Note that in Genesis El says "Let US make man in out image."
Another plural conundrum.
I like the Jewish concept of the Bible being incomplete and having an eternity of 'problems' to discuss... with none of the explanations having the weight of "God's Word.".
It is why Judaism is called by Jews a "Tradition" not a "Religion".
I often think that not treating Christianity as "Tradition" is the greatest mistake Christianity ever made.

Always good to converse with you B-Man.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#553671 Jul 2, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
And, going back to Tide's quote from Jefferson: Jefferson's view was that a Constitution should last just one generation. He believed a new one should be forged every 20 years or so, to adapt to changing times. Madison disagreed.
One could easily compare secluar stances to religious ones. Literalists through Reformers.

Strange that few are up to that dialogue without getting personal.
Bongo

United States

#553673 Jul 2, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
And, going back to Tide's quote from Jefferson: Jefferson's view was that a Constitution should last just one generation. He believed a new one should be forged every 20 years or so, to adapt to changing times. Madison disagreed.
World renown Buck Crik needs to come back here and inculcate you . If you obey Buck maybe you may be able to change your reputation of being a DORK.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#553674 Jul 2, 2013
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
It's like they're TRYING to sound immoral.
I tend to agree with you.

Some put forth the 'message' that all humans are vile monster but monsters who "have Jesus" are 'better' monsters.

Myself, I think Jesus taught how not be a monster at all.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#553675 Jul 2, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
.... he returns to his infantile, irrational beliefs, based on his "personal relationship" with a fictitious, incorporeal, omnipotent being.
I can understand that part. What I find irritating is making it a word game instead of a conversation.

I don't have the time or energy for games anymore.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#553678 Jul 2, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. for me, Red Apples hit an all-time low by insisting Alice (River Tam) is lying about her leg amputation. Your thoughts ??..
Y lie about such a thing?! Out of the 2 of them, she's the one who has at least one leg to stand on.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#553679 Jul 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Why do you say that? Why isn't this a Christian? They talk about true Christians while imagining some idealized person that you seldom or never encounter. What is truer than the kind that actually exist? Sure, some transcend this level. But do they do that because their church trains them to be better people, or do they get help from some aspect of nature or nurture outside of the church, like a good family or good genes. This religion lets you be as immoral as you want to be. Far from teaching character, which is not done from a book, it facilitates poor character. Forgiveness is available on demand. The religion teaches you that you are already more moral than heathens. So we see all variety of character road kill in this thread, each claiming that Jesus is their Lord and master. Nice work, Jesus. Red Apples is a Christian to me. So are Skombolis and Dr. Shrink. True Christians, just like the Pacific is a true ocean and Everest is a true ocean
Skombolis wrote:
no man is in a position to speak on who is a "true Christian"
That is incorrect.
Skombolis wrote:
Although by your own admission you have given at least 6 Christians you claim are good people that you have no problem with.
Your words, not mine.

If you want to produce a comment I made and discuss it, I will. If all that you are willing to do is to paraphrase what you think you read, don't bother. You won't be taken seriously.
Skombolis wrote:
That's more people you like that are Christian in here than you don't like.
That's neither true nor relevant.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#553680 Jul 2, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Yet you remain a bigot and justify it by claiming the people you don't like are the "true Christians" so you can feel better about being a bigot
Aren't you a true Christian? Don't you consider yourself a true Christian? I do.
Skombolis wrote:
Our disagreements don't even have anything to do with the faith
Of course they do. If you weren't a faith based thinker, I would likely have the same relationship with you that I do with EVERY OTHER skeptic on this thread - amicable. All of the squabbling is with Christians, and is obviously related to their Christianity.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#553681 Jul 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
... much of the bible that you all carry to church every Sunday isn't actually for you - it was for Levites.
And by extension, Romans, Galatians, Thessalonians, Philippians, Colossians, Ephesians, Corinthians and Hebrews.

I guess only people from the Eastern Mediterranean need listen to anything Paul wrote.

'Praise the Lord !'

"Free at Last! free at last!
Thank God Almighty! We're free at last!" - MLK

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#553682 Jul 2, 2013
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
I've heard about buildings where the floor numbering skips the thirteenth floor.
I've never seen that in any buildings in Europe, Asia or Australia.
Perhaps it's predominantly an American thing?
It called triskaidekaphobia. I was born of the 13th, so consider it my lucky number.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#553684 Jul 2, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
I am desensitized somewhat to the levels man can sink while remaining very aware of it
That would be expected for you by now. It also seems like a worthwhile adaptation given your life's arc.
Skombolis wrote:
Name the single biggest real life accomplishment your little pretend campaign against Christianity has had in real life LOL, I will be waiting a long time for an answer won't I?
Probably. I'm not really interested in trying to discuss anything with you any more. It's not possible. I can only contradict your comments or post about you.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#553686 Jul 2, 2013
John Coffey wrote:
Morning Granny, what a refreshing thread this is so far. Only time will tell if it stays this way. Nice sunny day here in my neck of the woods with the fresh snow from the last couple of days it's beautiful outside. More snow on the way late tonight they say. Personally I'm hoping for a lot of snow over the next week so when I head south to Florida for a couple of weeks it will make it even sweeter driving south going from the cold snow to the warm sunshine of the sunshine state. Hope you have a fantastic day. God bless you and God bless everyone here.
Good evening John and Old School Granny. I was just passing through and saw both of you were still on the thread. I got off the forums for quiet a while because of all the fighting that people were doing when they invaded all the threads. I wanted to give all of you a wave as I passed by.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#553687 Jul 2, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
That is almost identical to the verses in the Sumerian creation tablets from 4000 years earlier.
IMHO, Judaism, Christianity and Islam can not be understood without realizing they are all variants of the Sumerian religion.
I think that extends to the entire region and pretty much all of the cultures that emerged from the region, and it shouldn't be surprising, since the Sumerian culture was one of the first and most dominant in the Fertile Crescent.

Every culture afterwards, retained some portion of Sumerian mythology.

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