Mark

Hedel, Netherlands

#552357 Jun 27, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL..Plastic fantastic??? Why did you change your name again Mike? talk about a " FAKE"..Just me yourself..Did I say you called me stupid??
Who is Mike, grace?

“I.Spirit.Son.God”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#552358 Jun 27, 2013
Peace_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand the reasons for these limitations as being no end to God... eternal. Any laws given to mankind were for his benefit and learning on this earth... from health to safety and any other reason under the sun. It is automatic that if they are not kept, human history tells of what can happen all round through mistakes or the term, disobedience. It is no different in the science, whether on the earth or the cosmos. Everything has laws of existence.
I think a person, an individual, a soul--must by themselves come to the reasoning of how absurd it is to believe existence as we know it could happen by happenstance and chance.

Take myself that use to admire Buddhism, an atheistic religion. I had many many questions about Buddhism and could not avoid the obvious. The evidence, just kept piling up and piling up by scientists--that it is downright impossible and absurd to believe this universe happen by accident.

So then it became--what then? Jesus Christ made the most sense. And Jesus Christ proved to me in no uncertain way He not only made sense, He is God.

That kind of revelation happens on a individual basis.

Now I can't even imagine with all of the work science did, and is doing and is available for everyone to see, that there are actually people that really believe chance and happenstance create everything.

Most I believe just don't want to believe on Jesus Christ, and now using atheism as an illogical and irrational excuse.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#552359 Jun 27, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter was hung upside down on a cross..Has anyone ever ask themselves WHY a person would die for something that wasn't true? How many of the disciples died a martyr?? If they were lying, they wouldn't have died still confessing Christ
People die for many things, and their belief in what they died for does not make their death a proof of truth.

I can point to the emperor god Hirohito of Japan to example this. A portion of the people within that culture felt Hirohito was a god, or at the least the deity incarnate, and those people willingly died for that perception.

Additionally...

There are those that did see Hirohito as human still went to their deaths willingly because of what that image represented to tradition and the society. That being said, and as it relates to this subject, suggesting self martyrdom or sacrifice as some sort of validity or proof for a cause, or of a deity being real only shows that people will die for things others might not.

You can't claim to know what the motivations were, or the info people were or weren't privy to all those years ago, especially concerning ancient deities like the Jesus.

To say people would have "known" is only an assumption.

I could just as easily say that the Jesus never lived, and people decided to die for the notion of having a religion owned by the common man. Unfettered by a priesthood or authoritative figure(S).

People have given their lives for far less nobler reasons. You can't say a person wouldn't knowingly die for a lie.

You can't claim people will *only* die for a perceived truth, either.

To do so is entirely subjective.

It's an assumed and meaningless proof that people died for, or were martyred for what they may, or may not have thought was a belief in a god. Or any belief for that matter.

The only truth contained there is that the person died.

The recent wars(and all wars) prove people will die for vague reasons, well defined reasons, or no reason at all. And sometimes people are killed by those same standards. I don't think you can attach a value of truth for what people die for, or are killed for.

So, that people died for or didn't die for the religious icon, the Jesus, makes it no more or less compelling to think there is an ultimate truth or proof attached to that, other than people do die. For various reasons.

That sort of reasoning could be used to say the only reason people risked life and left family behind to cross the Berlin wall was solely to escape communism. I don't think you would make that assumption. Some were killed crossing. I actually know 3 people, personally, and have talked to others, who say they crossed it for various reasons, and some actually returned, re-crossing the wall, the same day or days later. Quite regularly. People do the craziest things.

I've got to point out if the litmus of belief in a god are the numbers of people dying while maintaining a belief in that god and dying in it's name, a cause, or a perceived duty and avoiding forsaking that god, then I'd check out Islam...or!...the kamikaze pilots and soldiers that died for their emperor god, Hirohito Sh?wa, at the time thought and *known* to be real.

Who knows? In 2000 years people might well be intoning:

"In Shîwa's name, BANZAI!...now lets eat".

I don't think a persons willingness to die for whatever ideal or imagined belief is proof in itself of that belief being based in reality or that the death validates - as being a literal and universally applicable truth for humans - what the person imagined they died for.
mike

AOL

#552360 Jun 27, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter was hung upside down on a cross..Has anyone ever ask themselves WHY a person would die for something that wasn't true? How many of the disciples died a martyr?? If they were lying, they wouldn't have died still confessing Christ
Hello G-walker

Where in the bible does it say peter was actually hung upside down?

Wanna-be christians love to exaggerate!...they have nothing else, they can call real.

A GOD certainly is not real!

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#552361 Jun 27, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi PW,
I hope you have a peaceful sleep sister. God Bless You
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Love to you my friend. I have to go to class at 10:00 but I wanted to say thank you. Grace and peace to you PW
U 2 Grace. I kept your greeting to answer. I did have a semi-peaceful sleep thank you. Ish-i's mum chose to go into a nursing home from the hospital we've been busy at this week. I can't imagine it will be for long, tho know only too well that our passing does not have to relate to age.
We're here to be near her, and help.
It might seem as tho I have stood back, and I have. It's my way of respect when it is not my place to interfere... now it is history, it's always Grace and Peace to you sister... there is no other way. Enjoy your class! <3

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#552362 Jun 27, 2013
mike wrote:
<quoted text>Hello G-walker
Where in the bible does it say peter was actually hung upside down?...
It isn't in the Bible.
Like many Christian beliefs, it is in a book that their churches banned as heretical.

Strange, eh ?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#552363 Jun 27, 2013
lil whispers wrote:
Caught ya all later. Good night.
OK.:)
mike

AOL

#552364 Jun 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
It isn't in the Bible.
Like many Christian beliefs, it is in a book that their churches banned as heretical.
Strange, eh ?
Hello G_O_D

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#552365 Jun 27, 2013
mike wrote:
<quoted text>Hello G_O_D
Hello Mike!

Hope you are doing well this fine evening.
Mark

Hedel, Netherlands

#552366 Jun 27, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
@ MARK
Those who hold to the position of atheism are quick to point out slip-ups in Christianity’s history and the supposed psychological and character-affecting doctrines of the Bible. However, if we must suppose that bad deeds are evidence against Christianity, then are good deeds evidence for Christianity?
Churches and Christian Organizations have started charities, homeless shelters, and fundraisers to help the poor and unfortunate. I know that some Christian organizations near where I live have positive outreaches in the community. Many of the Christians I know are very good human beings and they all have many positive effects upon society.
So, is all of this evidence in favor of Christianity? If the evil deeds of Christians are evidence AGAINST Christianity, then surely the good deeds of Christians are evidence in favor OF that worldview! If the atheist wishes to deny that good deeds performed by Christians are evidence that Christianity is true, then they must admit that the moral choices of men have no bearing upon whether or not an historical event actually happened.
Bad behavioral patterns of some Christians does not affect historical truth in any way, shape, or form. What we have here is another EMOTIONAL objection to Christianity.
Emotion often overrides logic. You will notice that in a good deal of Christian-turned-atheist testimonies, emotional reasons had a deciding factor in the individual’s conversion. Ironically, many atheists claim that Christians are guilty of using manipulative emotional arguments in order to win converts. You should take a good look in the mirror before you fling out such accusations at others. Simple-minded?? Yes Mark, I believe you are. Have a good night
One of the many lies of monotheism is that it brought better social structures. It is what claims Islam as well, but Mohamed who was an orphan was himself proof of the contrary as he was well helped by his larger family throughout his childhood.

Christianity created "charity", which I regard as one of the most devious systems ever devised, another one is "foreign aid". Why are they so evil. Because they are not meant to change social injustice but to help them continue.

For the ruling class to be able to permanently exploit the lower classes charity is a necessity. Charity does not change anything but takes away the sharpest edges of the system, so people will go on accepting it. At the same time it benefits the ruling class and the churches. Much of the money given to charity is pocketed by the churches. They actually live on the destitute of the poor. The more miserable they can portray it, the more money they can extort by emotional blackmail.

For the rich charity is a way to become benign benefactors. In reality it costs them nothing, it is all tax deductible. It is all part of morally corrupt system simple minded people can not see through.

It is further corrupted by the fact the Christianity uses aid to convert people. What is more evil than to deprive people of their core believes at a time they are at your mercy and need your help. Christians never help people with pure intentions, it is always with conversion in the back of their minds.

The same with foreign aid that only hides the fact that rich countries are actually enforcing an economical system on poorer countries that keeps them poor. To hide our evilness we give foreign aid, and send missionaries to build schools, but at the same time convert them and create allies in those countries so we can easier control them.

And of course the churches let volunteers do charity for free so they make even more money. The world would be far better off without organized charity.

In this world Grace, it is not a battle between good and bad, like Christianity tells people, it is very hard to distinguish between good and bad. "The good people", "the world savers" not seldom are the worst of all.

“Romans 8:1.”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#552367 Jun 27, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing more boring than the Bible, that is for sure.
Have you read your long winded, delusional, self-aggrandizing posts?

They're the most boring things anyone could read in all of Topix.
Mark

Hedel, Netherlands

#552368 Jun 27, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
Take myself that use to admire Buddhism, an atheistic religion. I had many many questions about Buddhism and could not avoid the obvious. The evidence, just kept piling up and piling up by scientists--that it is downright impossible and absurd to believe this universe happen by accident.
So then it became--what then? Jesus Christ made the most sense. And Jesus Christ proved to me in no uncertain way He not only made sense, He is God.
You mean you lost your marbles.
What a shameless but transparent advertisement
Mark

Hedel, Netherlands

#552369 Jun 27, 2013
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you read your long winded, delusional, self-aggrandizing posts?
They're the most boring things anyone could read in all of Topix.
It is not really directed at the masses

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#552370 Jun 27, 2013
Red Apples wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you read your long winded, delusional, self-aggrandizing posts?
They're the most boring things anyone could read in all of Topix.
Go back to hell, Satan's spawn.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#552371 Jun 27, 2013
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter was hung upside down on a cross..Has anyone ever ask themselves WHY a person would die for something that wasn't true? How many of the disciples died a martyr?? If they were lying, they wouldn't have died still confessing Christ
It wasn't just Christian believers who died for what they felt the truth was.

Christians themselves killed those who were deemed to be heretics, blasphemers, unbelievers, etc. These people died for a different set of "truths".

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#552372 Jun 27, 2013
trifecta1 wrote:
<quoted text>I think a person, an individual, a soul--must by themselves come to the reasoning of how absurd it is to believe existence as we know it could happen by happenstance and chance.
Take myself that use to admire Buddhism, an atheistic religion. I had many many questions about Buddhism and could not avoid the obvious. The evidence, just kept piling up and piling up by scientists--that it is downright impossible and absurd to believe this universe happen by accident.
So then it became--what then? Jesus Christ made the most sense. And Jesus Christ proved to me in no uncertain way He not only made sense, He is God.
That kind of revelation happens on a individual basis.
Now I can't even imagine with all of the work science did, and is doing and is available for everyone to see, that there are actually people that really believe chance and happenstance create everything.
Most I believe just don't want to believe on Jesus Christ, and now using atheism as an illogical and irrational excuse.
I am glad you found your peace in Jesus. In the kingdom of my Father, religion is not what it has been made here.
... many have been down very many roads before finding him, and for my personal journey, what others believe really doesn't worry me. If it did my whole time would be spent combating it instead of going forward. I have no trouble visiting many other religions, and have friends in many,+ visited a few. When it comes to the bread they have fed me with when homeless, or their water even in a dirty cup when thirsty, it was their hearts I judged them by, not religions.

As for science - with due respect to the good where it has helped and many are quick to forget - like everything tri, what is right will surface and stay, and what is not will fade away. The truth of anything will always be sought, but the truth of everything will never be known. That we believe in a Creator cannot change. It is fixed in the sound of the Word. And the reason why science will never find that is because it is just that. The sound within all sound, and a constant of all creation. I cannot write a book on it here, sufficient to say it is known, and guarded... because it is like all Force. creative, and destructive in the wrong hands.

When I saw and spoke on many occasions with Jesus, the one thing which did surprise me, was... immediately just as he spoke, I witnessed an incredible vision come from within him. This I have explained the best as I am able, but there is no mistake he is his Father's Son. In your words ?
“That kind of revelation happens on a individual basis.” Many things can be denied, not all things can be proven. There is nothing left any can do or say by action or name-calling either to silence me that hasn't already been tried.

With God, as we know, the term is plural,and there is more to the god-head. But one thing I do know when with him. He did not - and I emphasize 'Not'- want nor like being called 'God'! He did not even like being refereed to as an angel. He was his Father's Son... and no other term. All that matters is that he is, and like everything in life for better or for worse, the groom lives in his Father's Time.
Mark

Hedel, Netherlands

#552373 Jun 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
"Most"
Your argument fails on that word alone.
No it does not, you read selectively

Swastika is an Indian word. Saying Hitler used a Swastika is like saying he based himself on the Indian tradition.

That is complete bullshit as this symbol is found all over the world in a variety of meanings, mostly as Sun symbol. Like so many basic symbols, it was invented independently. Hilter and the Nazi's called it Hackenkreuz not swastika. For them it was not a Swastika. Hitler was no Sun worshipper nor was he interested in India culture or something like that. He was German with a great love for Catholicism and German history.

Hitler was an artist he made it from a N and S of National Socialism. if you look carefully at the hackenkreuz you can see the N and S in it. He probably liked it because it reminded him of the hackenkreuz he had seen as a boy in his church. Realizing it was a cross too, it made it the perfect symbol for his "positive Christanity" movement.

Saying that it is a swastika is just as much rubbish as saying the Dutch flag is based on the French flag because it has the same colours. These things are coincidental. If you start drawing a simple symbol it will always look like some other symbol. The Nazi's were all about racial purity and cultural purity, a foreign symbol was against Nazi ideology. This whole ahnenerbe stuff was later and a hobby of Heinrich Himmler, Hitler was not to fond off. Himmler was a romantic who played with all kind of ideas, like norse Gods and once said he liked Islam over Christianity, because it was more martial. But Hitler made very clear to Himler, they were sticking to Christianity.

So if you have anything to proof Hitler was into Swastika's please proof so.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#552374 Jun 27, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
No it does not, you read selectively
Swastika is an Indian word. Saying Hitler used a Swastika is like saying he based himself on the Indian tradition....
Nope.

The symbol which is now referred to as a swastika by most people was taken by the Nazis from the Thule Society.

It had been a symbol used around the world and had no more relationship to any individual group of the last few thousand years than the stars of the USA flag.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#552375 Jun 27, 2013
Hitler had a 'stash

Stalin had a 'stash, too

Double Fine is not growing one, as it will surely lead to the extermination of some ethnic groups.

Which one? Well, if you see gingers, New Zealand referees or bad drivers disappear, then know... It is because Double Fine is grooming facial hair

Morning all. I have a stuck machine and a plant that is standing. Sipping hot chocolate while waiting on maintenence. I would usually care, but it is Friday

“Electronic graffiti”

Since: Jun 13

Botany Bay

#552376 Jun 27, 2013
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you claim it is not murder, and do not make the distinction that you don't see killing children for being disrespectful as murder but that others can and are both right.
That reminds me of a really disturbing case in the courts @ the moment:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/06/2...

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