Why Should Jesus Love Me?

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Mark

Ammerzoden, Netherlands

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May 15, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
As it stands, at this moment, your deity belief is no different than any other deity belief, what suffices to you as evidence, also works on the Hindu, Animist, and all other deity belief variations in more or less general terms.
So, while you or the Hindu may feel that you each worship the "real god(S)", due to whatever reason, if the evidence is to cause someone to believe differently or change deity belief completely, then it has to rely on real evidence.
This is not so. There are fundamental differences between monotheism and nature religions.

The idea of the real God, the only truth, is essential to monotheism. In most nature religions people do not believe such a God. And it they do they say the same God expresses himself in many different Gods.

They recognize a variety of Spirits, as everything in nature has a spirit, even simple stones (Only in Abramistic religions it is believed that only man carries a spirit).

Humans are neither submissive nor inferior to Gods in Nature religions. In nature religions people USE the spirits like we use material objects. They do not submit to them. Worshipping is rather a technique to acquire things. If they a worship a God or other spirit and it does not have any effect, they will cast him aside like a blunt knife. They do not care at all what other people worship, just what works for them.

In nature religions Gods are simply another class of beings, and there are classes of Gods as well. For instance you have spirits that possess a material body, like the Sun, but also spirits that do not have that. We still speak of the spirit of Love, the spirit of Peace, The spirit of Harmony, but also the spirit of hate.

That a stone has a spirit should not be understood that it has the mind of a human being. But some people can sense that some stones have certain beneficial spiritual qualities, apart from their physical qualities. That is why some people sense certain objects bring them calm or bad luck. Of course their is a lot of deceit and false claims in people selling stuff in commercial societies.

But today we have become over-rationalized in trying to give even all spiritual experiences a material cause. For instance if Sunlight has a beneficial effect on depression, it has to be explained in a material cause-effect-chain.

It is because of Christianity that we are trying to do that, because Christianity claims that only humans have a spirit. So my words may have a spiritual effect on you but not the Sun.

What we call "theology" is unique for monotheism particularly Christianity. Nature religion base itself on induction, but Christianity is based on theory. It was designed. It started with Plato, who created the idea that all objects in reality are imperfect copies of perfect forms in another roam. These forms he recognized in perfect circles, triangles etc.(ideas developed by earlier philosophers). These perfect forms were part of the perfect being, the ONE GOD. The Jews and many other cultures incorporated these ideas.

When the Romans constructed Christianity they threw ideas from all cults in the mix to keep everybody happy. They created a theoretical monstrosity called the trinity. This is the work of scholars, theoreticians and politicians. In this concept the one God is a spirit, a father figure, and a walking talking hero and moral teacher at the same time.

Nature religions are essentially based on induction. What you feel. Not on theory, they have no theology (ideology). A religion like Hinduism for instance has many schools of philosophy. But no theory is a theology. Just like science as several theories on an phenomena. American Indians never cared about any special God nor did they believe in a heaven, but they prepared the spirit for the next life.

The whole belief thing is typical for monotheism, especially Christianity. So not throw it all on the big heap.

“squuuze me”

Since: Feb 09

Florida, USA

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#534626
May 15, 2013
 

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Doctor REALITY wrote:
Dork ...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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May 15, 2013
 

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Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text> the questions dont irritate me, stupidity does. You arent even close to on point. But like a child who insists ppl stop and pay attention to him you want to switch the conversation from why God doesnt stop bad things from happening to why God has punished mankind as told in the Bible. For an adult, those are 2 diff converations. Had we been talking about the other subject I would have been fine with it. But we were not
No, it's relevant to the conversation, in which the biblical story has numerous instances of interfering on it's own behalf, but mans, not so much.

Okay, now would be a good time to bring up that the deity sent its other self to save its creations from the wrath of itself by sacrificing itself to itself.

And all the while despots and storms and afflictions and life taking events take the lives of humans on a daily basis.

I suppose if that pissed the deity off or the deity took offense from that, he'd intervene there, too.

At least we have rainbows that guarantee us the world won't be flooded again...~/

Teeny floods and death is just fine, however.

Since: Apr 13

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#534629
May 15, 2013
 

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Skombolis wrote:
Edit scaritual...its ironic that for all the talk of myths and comparisons to Easter bunnies and what not that its unbelievers that feel if God exists that he should function as a Genie in a lamp and just grant personal wishes by only intervening when you permit it to do what you guys approve of. Maybe that is why some left the faith? Because God wasnt their personal wish granter
Genies:

RR might like this one.

There were three girls on a deserted island. One Blonde, one brunette and one red head. One day a bottle washed up. One of them picked it up and while rubbing the sand off of it, a Genie appeared.

"Since you released me from the bottle, I will allow three wishes. As there are three of you here, you each get one wish", said the Genie.

He looked first to the dark haired girl. She said, "I would like to back home with my boyfriend."

POOF !! She was gone.

He looked next to the red haired girl. She said, "I want to be back home with my family".

POOF !! She was gone.

He looked at the yellow haired girl. "What is your wish?", asked the Genie.

She looked around sadly and said, "I'm all alone here. I wish my two friends were back."

Since: Mar 09

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#534630
May 15, 2013
 

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Catcher...dont start pulling a HL. your badgering of Trifecta and questioning why ppl wont answer you was aggressive no? And asking hypotheticals and then when you get rebuttles you cant attack, changing the rules and going literal and claiming you dont believe in God is aggressive no? Telling believers their God is a nasty SOB is aggressive no? As it was though I was simply having a little fun with ya..ya know..ooops..like you wrote?

Since: Mar 09

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#534633
May 15, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's relevant to the conversation, in which the biblical story has numerous instances of interfering on it's own behalf, but mans, not so much.
Okay, now would be a good time to bring up that the deity sent its other self to save its creations from the wrath of itself by sacrificing itself to itself.
And all the while despots and storms and afflictions and life taking events take the lives of humans on a daily basis.
I suppose if that pissed the deity off or the deity took offense from that, he'd intervene there, too.
At least we have rainbows that guarantee us the world won't be flooded again...~/
Teeny floods and death is just fine, however.
Again, why God doesnt intervene in man acting of his own free will to stop man from sinning and stop acts of man is not the same subject as why would God punish man and acts of God. Im moving on

“Paul is a confessed liar”

Since: Jul 11

Sydney, Australia

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#534635
May 15, 2013
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a question for you: Does Jesus love Satan?
If Jesus practiced what he preached (Love your enemies)and Satan was an entity then yes.

In Judaism however, Satan doesn't exist as an entity so no, he wouldn't.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

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May 15, 2013
 

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Mark wrote:
This is not so. There are fundamental differences between monotheism and nature religions.
The idea of the real God, the only truth, is essential to monotheism. In most nature religions people do not believe such a God. And it they do they say the same God expresses himself in many different Gods.
They recognize a variety of Spirits, as everything in nature has a spirit, even simple stones (Only in Abramistic religions it is believed that only man carries a spirit).
Humans are neither submissive nor inferior to Gods in Nature religions. In nature religions people USE the spirits like we use material objects. They do not submit to them. Worshipping is rather a technique to acquire things. If they a worship a God or other spirit and it does not have any effect, they will cast him aside like a blunt knife. They do not care at all what other people worship, just what works for them.
In nature religions Gods are simply another class of beings, and there are classes of Gods as well. For instance you have spirits that possess a material body, like the Sun, but also spirits that do not have that. We still speak of the spirit of Love, the spirit of Peace, The spirit of Harmony, but also the spirit of hate.
That a stone has a spirit should not be understood that it has the mind of a human being. But some people can sense that some stones have certain beneficial spiritual qualities, apart from their physical qualities. That is why some people sense certain objects bring them calm or bad luck. Of course their is a lot of deceit and false claims in people selling stuff in commercial societies.
But today we have become over-rationalized in trying to give even all spiritual experiences a material cause. For instance if Sunlight has a beneficial effect on depression, it has to be explained in a material cause-effect-chain...(snipped for space)...Christianity.

Nature religion base itself on induction, but Christianity is based on theory. It was designed. It started with Plato, who created the idea that all objects in reality are imperfect copies of perfect forms in another roam. These forms he recognized in perfect circles, triangles etc.(ideas developed by earlier philosophers). These perfect forms were part of the perfect being, the ONE GOD. The Jews and many other cultures incorporated these ideas.
When the Romans constructed Christianity they threw ideas from all cults in the mix to keep everybody happy. They created a theoretical monstrosity called the trinity. This is the work of scholars, theoreticians and politicians. In this concept the one God is a spirit, a father figure, and a walking talking hero and moral teacher at the same time.
Nature religions are essentially based on induction. What you feel. Not on theory, they have no theology (ideology). A religion like Hinduism for instance has many schools of philosophy. But no theory is a theology. Just like science as several theories on an phenomena. American Indians never cared about any special God nor did they believe in a heaven, but they prepared the spirit for the next life.
The whole belief thing is typical for monotheism, especially Christianity. So not throw it all on the big heap.
I still think the mechanism of belief works the same for whatever worshiped or respected deity, or "force/aspect of nature" is being discussed at the moment.

I also think belief in ghosts, astrology, mediums and other "supernatural" things people profess a belief in are quite similar, or exactly similar in the mechanism by which people decide to believe in deities, "revered forces", "perceived supernatural energies", whatever it or they may be.

You could probably apply that to aliens, too.

So, yeah, I understand that Monotheism and Animism et al are disparate belief sets/concepts, but the way in which those beliefs are arrived at are much the same.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#534637
May 15, 2013
 

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Here For Now wrote:
<quoted text>
Hogwash, it was to me for me and filled with you or your. But you are pissing in the wind. What you say means diddle squat. One looks past one who flaps their lips and bla bla bla comes out, not fear their words. At most you pretend to listen but go on pretty much doing what youíre doing. Otherwise you would get nothing else done because them lips never quit flapping. Some people/you just can't seem to do any better.
LOL
Oh and it is you who will have to be nice to get nice, but you donít want that. Then you would not be able to flap them lips and I know people off topix donít stick around to hear all the bla bla bla. LOL
OK. Thanks.

I can't get nice from Christians without censoring my inflammatory opinions. In most places and times in my life, I have had to get along with Christians, whether on the job, in the neighborhood, or in the family. The repercussions for pissing off the wrong one could be significant.

But not here.

And you and everybody else can easily ignore my posting, so if it pisses you off, whose fault is that? You can also choose not to be personally offended by comments not directed at you.

I've made my choice. I'd rather say what I think on the subjects we discuss here than be friends with people who are too offended by my opinions to be friends. I realize that that could be most of you. I accept that.

So, I give an opinion about your religion, you tell me how horrible I am, and then I tell you whatever comes to mind. That's the best I can do with somebody that is personally offended by my criticisms of her church.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#534638
May 15, 2013
 
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
If Jesus practiced what he preached (Love your enemies)and Satan was an entity then yes.
In Judaism however, Satan doesn't exist as an entity so no, he wouldn't.
That makes sense to me for the Christian Jesus.

Of course, in Judaism Jesus isn't a messiah anyway.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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May 15, 2013
 

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Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Again, why God doesnt intervene in man acting of his own free will to stop man from sinning and stop acts of man is not the same subject as why would God punish man and acts of God. Im moving on
You say it isn't the same, but in a religious mythology that asserts the deity is an all loving, all knowing, omnibenevolent entity that cares more than humans can comprehend, then, it's a relevant observation.

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May 15, 2013
 

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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> Is that what you perceive or conceptualize no free will to be manifested as?
Interesting.
What? No I was addressing your argument of where would be the harm if we didnt know our free will was taken. You also wouldnt know if u were killed but no harm there either? losing free will causes harm

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LAWEST100 wrote:
<quoted text> That is true, but as I've just said to someone else a short while ago, not all things that exist necessarily have material evidence attached to them, and this where faith and belief as well as some level of common sense will come into play, when you can see all of creation around you, like the blue skies, the clouds, the tree's and all land formation around you, it is inconceivable to me that a person can witness nature and not have an understanding that SOMETHING greater than ourselves created it all, even if some of us do not have a detailed knowledge of whom that something or someone is, all of this did not created itself, and if anyone insisted that it has always been here ( as someone once eluded to me years before ) than you still have to ask the question when was it's beginning?.........and what was it that kicked started the universal process of it's creation?
faith is not a path to knowledge or truth

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

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hick-up wrote:
<quoted text>
Anybody can talk to dead people Mike.
Prolly a good idea ta take notes if'n they talk back.

“John 3:seventeen”

Since: Feb 07

God BELIEVES in YOU~

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Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
It's in the SAME PART of the bible you are referring to in order to hate gay people. It says to eat shellfish, to even touch pork, to wear mixed fabrics, is JUST as bad as being gay.
WHERE does it name homosexuality as a sin?
Where does it SPECIFICALLY say "homosexuality is a sin"?
Without an answer to these questions, you will have proven yourself a liar, and that's against one of your precious ten commandments.
Genesis---- Sodom and Gomorrah

Leviticus 18:22 "'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.


Leviticus 20:13

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.


New Testement:
Romans 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

“Jesus is coming soon”

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_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody needs pity.
For once we agree.

“Jesus is coming soon”

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Peace_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey >>>Lawest<<< Still just blowing thru on a very blustery day... 11 am Thurs... and soon must go out.[I think.] Was trying to do some catch up, and just saw your big post now re IRS... does this surprise you? Maybe there is something about standing back that some things become more clear. A bit like an artist with a painting, and new light is seen in it which is truly applicable to its reality.
Greeting again Irrira, no my friend........nothing truly surprises me anymore, people here in the USA don't want to admit it, but there is and likely have always been corruption and dishonesty at the very highest level of our government agencies, and that is nothing new at all.

Glad to have you with us sis. Peace and Blessings.

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1 Kings 15:6-11

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)


6 And there was war between Rehoboam and Jeroboam as long as he lived.

7 The rest also of the acts of Abijam, and all that he did, are they not written in the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Judah? there was also war between Abijam and Jeroboam.

8 And Abijam slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.

9 ∂ And in the twenty years of Jeroboam King of Israel, reigned Asa over Judah.

10 He reigned in Jerusalem one and forty years, and his [a]motherís name was Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom.

11 And Asa did right in the eyes of the Lord, as did David his father.

“Jesus is coming soon”

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karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
faith is not a path to knowledge or truth
It is to GOD'S truth and spiritual enlightment.

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