Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#534708 May 15, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> You say it isn't the same, but in a religious mythology that asserts the deity is an all loving, all knowing, omnibenevolent entity that cares more than humans can comprehend, then, it's a relevant observation.
I never claimed it wasn't. I said that wasn't the conversation we were having or what the posts were about that you responded to.

I never claimed God hasn't punished mankind or even suggested it wouldn't be an interesting conversation as to the contrast if any or why would God take such extreme measures

However that is a long, detailed, OTHER conversation. And you seem to want to just keep dropping little jabs and insults pertaining it into a totally different discussion. And I simply refuse to have a conversation like that. For me to stop and address it i would have to completely stop talking about what we were talking about and go down a long, detailed other road to address the things you want to throw in there. Maybe other people will engage you like that. I will not

It is one thing for a conversation to lead to another conversation or even expand to include other things. But when someone is just throwing in random, unrelated insults and not even commenting on what the original post was about or answering the questions posed in the original post, then that is not a natural progression of a conversation. Had your unrelated comments while ignoring the original conversation even not been insults perhaps I would have indulged it. But certainly not the way it was going

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#534709 May 15, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Well to the best of my knowledge there were only two times on an individual level someone was told their future
Once with Peter where he forgot he was told it until after betraying Christ
And the other would be Jesus telling His apostles that one of them would betray them,meaning Judas
Most all prophesy is basically what God will do or is somehow tied into what God will do
So prophesy will always happen
I mean I guess we could wonder in the two personal scenarios I listed if God told the individuals the prophesy to give them a chance to change it. Or maybe he simply knew even with them knowing in advance they would still do it anyway. I can't think of a great example but let's say the timeclock at work was broken and the boss is never at work and he says everybody is on the honor system to write down the correct time they left. And let's say he makes a prophesy that says someone will eventually cheat on their time cards. And everybody says, "oh no we would never do that.". And even though they were told in advance, they went ahead and did it anyway.
It may be as simple as that. God told them knowing it was still going to happen just because of who they were and He knew that by seeing their heart
But most of the time prophesy is about God and what he will do or promises to do or when he will do something be it personally or through natural acts or he has seen things or whatever. Prophesy isn't normally, hey Joe Smith on Tuesday will do this. Either it involves God or people don't really have enough information to change the prophesy and if God wanted someone to change the prophesy he would not make it in the first place. And if he didn't then he wouldn't tell people and/or give them the knowledge to change it
But one way or the other it is happening because God has the foreknowledge to see it in advance or to know in advance what he will do. But to the best of my knowledge prophesy being fulfilled has never required taking over man's will
Hope that answer helped somewhat anyway
(T) Peace
Do you believe in God, Skom? Really, really, really believe?

Do you have doubts, sometimes?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#534710 May 15, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Does the conceptual belief in an afterlife or eternal death influence people to do other than what they'd choose were there no "options" stated(eternal life/eternal death)?
Doubtful.
Then contrast that with simple human forms of coercion, such as was during wartime, where soldiers/people were tortured into signing confessions or condemnations of a govt. and other manipulations that caused a person to do something against their will.
Now, what would a literal belief in that proffered eternal life/eternal death religious mythology do?
Does it subvert or affect free will?
In considering that, it really isn't too much different or removed from the example of humans being controlled or affected by the environment and the choices we can make. We still have to cross the river if we want to get to the other side etc...
The primary difference is people "believe" the deity threat or constraints, are as literally real as a river they must cross.
One is a physical constraint, the other a mental constraint, but I think to the theist, one is as real as the other.
If free will is subverted, affected, manipulated or influenced by promise of bliss or agony - by a deity that I do think that Christians for instance, believe in...mostly - is it still free will?
yes

I have never understood why people take the attitude like circumstances mean we don't have free will

Like if during war we have less freedom or becauyse the rich control most of the country we have less option or because I have physical human limitations so I can't fly would be things that equate to less free will

When did the definition of free-will become proportionate to what we can do?

Free-will doesn't stop just because people in our lives have an influence on us or because based on how e were socialized we may have different leanings

Someone's choices being more predictable;e because of who they are or who they are around doesn't change one iota that someone still can make those choices of their own free-will

To me free-will is as simple as being able to think for ourselves, basically having control of our own mind and being the ones who ultimately decide whatever we end up doing. Someone could hold a gun to my head and say if I don't shoot a stranger they will kill my whole family. That sucks and my reaction might be predicable or even coerced but I still had the freedom of choice

There will always be outside influences and societal and environmental impacts. Or even just different things that factor into our decisions. But that doesn't negate free-will. Living among other people guarantees there will be things that influence us. But we still have the ability to choose. Again to me, predicting human behavior isn't the same as no free will because while hard to overcome patterns or however unlikely some scenarios may make a different choice, technically we always have the choice to do A,B, C, etc

I guess that's it in a nutshell to me. If there was never more than choice A because someone else was controlling us then to me that would mean no free will. Someone can always overcome their nature or upbringing or habits or leanings or influences. Its harder. It doesn't happen often. but because it is possible and does happen, free will exists

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#534711 May 15, 2013
blind man n the bleachers wrote:
1 Kings 15:6-11
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
6 And there was war between Rehoboam and Jeroboam as long as he lived.
7 The rest also of the acts of Abijam, and all that he did, are they not written in the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Judah? there was also war between Abijam and Jeroboam.
8 And Abijam slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.
9 ∂ And in the twenty years of Jeroboam King of Israel, reigned Asa over Judah.
10 He reigned in Jerusalem one and forty years, and his [a]motherís name was Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom.
11 And Asa did right in the eyes of the Lord, as did David his father.
And David lusted for another mans woman, and sent him off to die so he might have her for himself.(God said that David was a man after hid own heart).
What does that tell you?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#534712 May 15, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you believe in God, Skom? Really, really, really believe?
Do you have doubts, sometimes?
I had periods in my life where I doubted

I had periods in my life where I didn't believe at all

I had periods in my life where I didn't want to believe

I had periods in my life where i believed but wanted nothing to do with God

I had periods in my life where i believed but felt I didn't deserve to have God in my life with how i was living

I have run the gauntlet my friend. And that is even with having experiences from a young age that make it basically impossible for me to deny God exists. But we can often make ourselves believe or not believe (however you want to look at it) a lot of things even if they are not true. Or maybe even vice versa and we can make ourselves believe things we don't think are true but convince ourselves otherwise

Between the psychological games we play with ourselves and our own motives and our own life experiences, faith can be a very hard road to stay on

But I can tell you from the bottom of my heart that today I am 100% convinced God exists

There may be a lot of other details I am wrong about, details that center more around religion and not faith, but that God exists is one thing I believe with every ounce of my being

(T) Peace

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#534713 May 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
yes
I have never understood why people take the attitude like circumstances mean we don't have free will
Like if during war we have less freedom or becauyse the rich control most of the country we have less option or because I have physical human limitations so I can't fly would be things that equate to less free will
When did the definition of free-will become proportionate to what we can do?
Free-will doesn't stop just because people in our lives have an influence on us or because based on how e were socialized we may have different leanings
Someone's choices being more predictable;e because of who they are or who they are around doesn't change one iota that someone still can make those choices of their own free-will
To me free-will is as simple as being able to think for ourselves, basically having control of our own mind and being the ones who ultimately decide whatever we end up doing. Someone could hold a gun to my head and say if I don't shoot a stranger they will kill my whole family. That sucks and my reaction might be predicable or even coerced but I still had the freedom of choice
There will always be outside influences and societal and environmental impacts. Or even just different things that factor into our decisions. But that doesn't negate free-will. Living among other people guarantees there will be things that influence us. But we still have the ability to choose. Again to me, predicting human behavior isn't the same as no free will because while hard to overcome patterns or however unlikely some scenarios may make a different choice, technically we always have the choice to do A,B, C, etc
I guess that's it in a nutshell to me. If there was never more than choice A because someone else was controlling us then to me that would mean no free will. Someone can always overcome their nature or upbringing or habits or leanings or influences. Its harder. It doesn't happen often. but because it is possible and does happen, free will exists
So I can kill myself with no repercussions from the GOD?

Free will?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#534714 May 16, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
When I got my dog from the rescue place, I thought the dude said he would make a good guard dog.
Never get a dog in Boston.
My dog just lays in the closet with his paws together.
Gawd dog, my ass.
LOL

Maybe he is guarding your clothes?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#534715 May 16, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahrrrrg Cap'n, The first one be mine.
Aim fer the head boys. It be the only way to put'em down.
<SNORT>

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#534716 May 16, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Arrrrgh, Cap'n.
Never let ye cock crow.
It be painful.
http://images.wikia.com/zombie/images/3/37/Cr...
Ah Hahahahahah!
Be the bar O' fixicational reverence ta injustice an the remedy fer stupidity mate!!!

Yer a shoot'n star!

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#534717 May 16, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Humanity isfucked, PW.
I cheeked my meds today. I need clarity occasionally.
Nemesis is what I feel like.
http://images.wikia.com/residentevil/images/4...
Nah.
I know I'm a tough one, but if you'll forgive my previous balk, I'd be honored ta "really" be yer friend.
Yer not alone girl...

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#534718 May 16, 2013
2 x posts ??? Sorry topix fault!
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks sister
I guess I jumped backed in head first in the deep end!
So much for easing back into Topix!
Honestly it is a little much at times but people have been making some efforts to communicate positively and because that seems to be a rarity on topix for the two sides to actually sit down and even attempt to discuss anything, I hate not to participate to the best of my ability. Some posters I feel like even if they criticize the faith a lot, will also engage in a reciprocal respectful or at least civil exchange and when posters are making that effort i will too. If i think it is playing games or even if through no fault the conversation is going nowhere then I try to bail
I have gone extremely long stretches on Topix without explaining why I believe anything i do to someone outside the faith because of how insincere I have found the questions to be. I miss the days of Hip and micah and X when egos could be put aside and real conversations could be had. Not that those guys couldn't be as bad as anyone else, and I am the same way, but when they wanted to talk they were some really good people to talk to.
Although I don't care if someone knows nothing about the faith and sincerely just wants to ask questions to get a better idea of how believers look at things. That's cool by me too. But like I just wrote in a post to boooots, when it feels like their is some expectation that we need to justify ourselves or the conversation is just a trohan horse to introduce other criticisms, that's when my interest wanes quickly
(T) Peace
Do you jump any other way? <3
I feel the same... mostly. In the beginning I didn't come in here outside of the question WSJLM, and have said, I cannot even imagine why he should love me at all!

That said, any folk who can converse with respect makes it a better world... anywhere. As for justifying one to the other, facts are sometimes overlooked that many do know the Bible as good as anyone else called Christian, having made their decisions long before what their choice is now. What I don't understand is, even if there is strong opposition, why must then a Christian not respect this fact, rather than hanging on every breath - even if some others do the same to oppose - just to look for a break in the clouds to save their souls? That already is their free will to either give up on when they chose to leave this path, or not go there. Isn't this called respect also?

I grew to love Micha, even tho he gave me the rawest deal in the beginning, we had a warm respect for what we did have in common soon after that. You have the gift of speech... and that is a blessing called yours. I only wish to share... maybe that's mine. So what should a thread like this bend from being ourselves rather than a sermon on saving souls? They could open another thread to thrash that one out, but it is not my duty as a pw... which is my life, and not just in this place. And now that it also is Prove there's a God??? Where that thread gone? Isn't there enough space to share such respect?

Either way... despite agree to disagree... without respect no-one is anything, Christian or not.
Love and Peace always my friend and good to say hello between the battle fields!~~smile~~ Take Care.'We cam, we saw, we conquered.'

"I†don't regret any of the life decisions I've made... Because I appreciate the lessons I have learned along the way... that have made me what I am today..." Morris James
Lost In Transition

Silver Springs, FL

#534719 May 16, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
And David lusted for another mans woman, and sent him off to die so he might have her for himself.(God said that David was a man after hid own heart).

What does that tell you?
Keep an eye on Dave.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#534720 May 16, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I had periods in my life where I doubted
I had periods in my life where I didn't believe at all
I had periods in my life where I didn't want to believe
I had periods in my life where i believed but wanted nothing to do with God
I had periods in my life where i believed but felt I didn't deserve to have God in my life with how i was living
I have run the gauntlet my friend. And that is even with having experiences from a young age that make it basically impossible for me to deny God exists. But we can often make ourselves believe or not believe (however you want to look at it) a lot of things even if they are not true. Or maybe even vice versa and we can make ourselves believe things we don't think are true but convince ourselves otherwise
Between the psychological games we play with ourselves and our own motives and our own life experiences, faith can be a very hard road to stay on
But I can tell you from the bottom of my heart that today I am 100% convinced God exists
There may be a lot of other details I am wrong about, details that center more around religion and not faith, but that God exists is one thing I believe with every ounce of my being
(T) Peace
Do you kill bugs?

I don't on purpose. Sometimes I drive and they run into my truck. I tell myself that it's not my fault. I have to drive. I don't have any other way of getting to where I"m going.

I like spiders. I usually keep one or two somewhere on my person. Pockets and such.

I have faith that the spiders won't bite me and they have faith that I won't crush them between my hands. Either of us could do the opposite at any time but we don't. Why is that?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#534721 May 16, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
A large number of Christians did just that. They were murdered by the Roman Imperial Church and their books burned.
Yes they were.
That is an example where truth and love is dispelled in the face of greed and power.
Lost In Transition

United States

#534722 May 16, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you kill bugs?
I have faith that the spiders won't bite me and they have faith that I won't crush them between my hands. Either of us could do the opposite at any time but we don't. Why is that?
I shot an armadillo last night. He was digging up my potatos.
Potatos are my friends.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#534723 May 16, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
So I can kill myself with no repercussions from the GOD?
Free will?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =s9p5iyr5bXcXX
Please don't ask things like that my friend. The printed word makes it hard if not impossible sometimes to determine mind-set of the poster and it would scare the hell out of me to think this might be something you considered

I have seen a lot of people in this world. Most left me very underwhelmed. People like you don't come along very often. You have a way of making the people around you feel better about life. Do you know how rare a gift that is?

How God might respond to a person in pain making such a choice is something we can't know. I was taught certain things about suicide and God but there is no way to know. I believe God to be just and understanding and it would be my hope that when life is not a blessing He would understand. I support euthanasia for instance. To live only to be in pain till we die makes no sense to me. And who is to say psychological pain is any less worthy of mercy?

But what I do know is the repercussions in this world. And it would break the hearts of those that know you

I know at some point people probably feel that even though they don't want to hurt others that they simply don't have the strength to go on. When I was addicted I contemplated killing myself almost daily

I know a little about a lot and a lot about a little when it comes to life. IMO anyway. And if there is one thing I know for a certainty it is that we are stronger than we think and things are never as bad as they seem. Life is cycular and with time it always gets better

Everyone probably thinks about it at some point in their life, whenever that lowest moment is. But I can tell you I could not be more grateful I never pulled the trigger

You may just be asking out of curiosity. And if that was the case I still want you to remember this post because we all have low moments, even if not right now.

You are younger and in many things that makes no difference and you have shown a maturity way beyond your years. But trust me when i say it takes some time on this planet to realize what kind of people are in it and which people to ignore and which people to cherish. And you my friend are at the top of the list of the good ones

(T) Peace

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#534724 May 16, 2013
hick-up wrote:
<quoted text>Somebody else can take notes ...I'm gonna be shaggin ass the hell away from there.
NOT ME!
I wanna know!

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#534725 May 16, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I know my audience, Skom.
I have to. I'm the youngest one here.
When I was competing, before a match, my Master would kneel beside me and say, "The opponent is yours, but win in a such a way that his mother will like you."
Wise mentor.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#534726 May 16, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah.
I know I'm a tough one, but if you'll forgive my previous balk, I'd be honored ta "really" be yer friend.
Yer not alone girl...
I am alone Cap'n.

I was born alone and I will die alone.

What happens inb'tween don't matter much, do it?

Sometimes you want a fan and sometimes you want a heater.

And then you die.

“A Universal Cause”

Since: Feb 09

The Cosmos

#534727 May 16, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
The video is not available in my country. I get that a lot.
I appreciate your concern. I will be OK.
So will you.
You are... we are... I know <3
I have to go now.
[ try this one.]

Until again my friend.
Take Care

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